Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[RES]

"My engine started once, stalled a second later, turned over slightly on the second start attempt, and hydrolocked on the third start attempt."

After reading many of these posts on this forum, my understanding is that the starter is not strong enough to bend a rod. Therefore if the hydrolock did not occur while the engine was running (like cruising on the highway) it most likely did not bend a rod. I am not sure if this 100% a fact, but this is what I have been reading.

 

[rocketride]

Hello from the deep south! I'm afraid the "polar vortex" may have caused a hydrolock here in AL. Here is the story (2010 JSW 6sp 95k miles)

Mon - temps ~10F and driving fine wife parked the car in garage (40-50F)
Tue - wife reports car won't start, seems like dead battery (takes daughters car) I figure the cold got to the battery but wife said it was almost like it ran for a few seconds and then died (a missed clue!)
Thu - Temps are back to normal (40F or so) I try to jump start the TDI a few times but barely turns over, I figure the battery is not taking a charge and the battery is toast.
Sat - I install a new battery, attempt a start and SAME THING - barely turns over and locks. Go to the interweb to try to figure out what is going on and land on this thread (oh crap!)

So what to do now? I'd rather not use the local VW dealer but I want VW to know about this in case there is a recall or on the off chance they will fix the problem for free (not likely from what I've read above). There is a local garage that specializes in TDI that I've heard good things about so I'd be comfortable sending it there. Any advice?

 

[Jayg]

^Call your dealer and explain everything. Quote the TSB numbers and see what they will do for you. At minimum se if they can help you out with the cost but you may get lucky and find they cover the whole thing.

 

[RES]

Most likely it is intercooler icing. Removing the pan, disconnecting the intercooler hose on the passenger side and draining the water will most likely solve the problem assuming that all the ice has melted by now. The problem is that if you or your trusted mechanic drain the water and the VW dealer does not do the diagnosis and find the problem, they will not install the new Intercooler Kit. Judging from some of the above posts and your deep south location they may not even know about the problem (TSB). At 95000 miles it is out of warranty and it is at the discretion of VW to give you the kit. Maybe the best thing to do is to call the dealer and discuss the problem with them to see if they are aware of the problem and see if they will commit to installing the kit free of charge.

 

[dirtysouthjacket]

Hello from the deep south! I'm afraid the "polar vortex" may have caused a hydrolock here in AL. Here is the story (2010 JSW 6sp 95k miles)
Mon - temps ~10F and driving fine wife parked the car in garage (40-50F)
Tue - wife reports car won't start, seems like dead battery (takes daughters car) I figure the cold got to the battery but wife said it was almost like it ran for a few seconds and then died (a missed clue!)
Thu - Temps are back to normal (40F or so) I try to jump start the TDI a few times but barely turns over, I figure the battery is not taking a charge and the battery is toast.
Sat - I install a new battery, attempt a start and SAME THING - barely turns over and locks. Go to the interweb to try to figure out what is going on and land on this thread (oh crap!)
So what to do now? I'd rather not use the local VW dealer but I want VW to know about this in case there is a recall or on the off chance they will fix the problem for free (not likely from what I've read above). There is a local garage that specializes in TDI that I've heard good things about so I'd be comfortable sending it there. Any advice?

In addition to calling the dealer, I would definitely call the main VWoA phone number. Its listed on the first post of this page. Tell them that you think the intercooler is the problem, that there is a TSB covering it. Keep leaning on them and they may just in fact cover the costs for you.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Hello from the deep south! I'm afraid the "polar vortex" may have caused a hydrolock here in AL. Here is the story (2010 JSW 6sp 95k miles)



Mon - temps ~10F and driving fine wife parked the car in garage (40-50F)

Tue - wife reports car won't start, seems like dead battery (takes daughters car) I figure the cold got to the battery but wife said it was almost like it ran for a few seconds and then died (a missed clue!)

Thu - Temps are back to normal (40F or so) I try to jump start the TDI a few times but barely turns over, I figure the battery is not taking a charge and the battery is toast.

Sat - I install a new battery, attempt a start and SAME THING - barely turns over and locks. Go to the interweb to try to figure out what is going on and land on this thread (oh crap!)



So what to do now? I'd rather not use the local VW dealer but I want VW to know about this in case there is a recall or on the off chance they will fix the problem for free (not likely from what I've read above). There is a local garage that specializes in TDI that I've heard good things about so I'd be comfortable sending it there. Any advice?

Welcome to TDIClub, rocketride! I'm glad you found this thread.

 

[ctmoore79]

Update, I guess I spoke to soon. Just got the code p20d8 on my way to get some lunch. Looking it up and says, P20D8 - Exhaust Aftertreatment Fuel Supply Control Performance. Solid yellow engine light. Dealer closed so I will take it in tomorrow morning, about 15 miles away. Car seems to be running OK but a few random hiccups at steady rpms in various gears yesterday and today. Ran the car in the garage for a minute when I got home and when I turned it off there was an odd whooshing sound. Heard it 3 times before all normal shutdown noises ended as usual. Sounds like air escaping but could not tell where exactly it was coming from. I guess they did not hook something up correctly when putting in the new IC kit. I will update when I find out more. Let me know if you think I should just start a new post instead.

 

[Jayg]

Update, I guess I spoke to soon. Just got the code p20d8 on my way to get some lunch. Looking it up and says, P20D8 - Exhaust Aftertreatment Fuel Supply Control Performance. Solid yellow engine light. Dealer closed so I will take it in tomorrow morning, about 15 miles away. Car seems to be running OK but a few random hiccups at steady rpms in various gears yesterday and today. Ran the car in the garage for a minute when I got home and when I turned it off there was an odd whooshing sound. Heard it 3 times before all normal shutdown noises ended as usual. Sounds like air escaping but could not tell where exactly it was coming from. I guess they did not hook something up correctly when putting in the new IC kit. I will update when I find out more. Let me know if you think I should just start a new post instead.

Hmm maybe a cracked DPF?

 

[ctmoore79]

Hmm maybe a cracked DPF?

Not sure. For got to mention I had a rough idle and fluctuation with a REGEN yesterday. Not sure if that had any affect.

 

[STRANGETDI]

Sounds like a hose on your new IC popped off or it was not secured correctly during the install.

 

[Ctyankee]

Sounds like a hose on your new IC popped off or it was not secured correctly during the install.

+1. That's my thought as well. If you take a closer look, you may be able to see if a hose is loose.

 

[Engineers<3Diesel]

Update, I guess I spoke to soon. Just got the code p20d8 on my way to get some lunch. Looking it up and says, P20D8 - Exhaust Aftertreatment Fuel Supply Control Performance. Solid yellow engine light. Dealer closed so I will take it in tomorrow morning, about 15 miles away. Car seems to be running OK but a few random hiccups at steady rpms in various gears yesterday and today. Ran the car in the garage for a minute when I got home and when I turned it off there was an odd whooshing sound. Heard it 3 times before all normal shutdown noises ended as usual. Sounds like air escaping but could not tell where exactly it was coming from. I guess they did not hook something up correctly when putting in the new IC kit. I will update when I find out more. Let me know if you think I should just start a new post instead.

Interesting you got yours out so soon. Dealer called me and said they were not getting the parts until Tuesday which means you were their first. Let me know what you find out on your car as I should be picking mine up tomorrow.

 

[ctmoore79]

Interesting you got yours out so soon. Dealer called me and said they were not getting the parts until Tuesday which means you were their first. Let me know what you find out on your car as I should be picking mine up tomorrow.

I know they said that they had to order the parts. I think they special ordered the one I received but said they had more on the way. Told me that I was mine was the first car they had ever done the new IC kit.

Dropped it off this morning and they looked over the hoses and said they did not see anything that was loose but would continue to inspect things. They also said they had not ever seen this code before. Was given a loaner and they will let me know what they find.

 

[Jayg]

On the cold weather kit it shows an entirely new IC getting installed. From the pictures I have seen, the new IC looks like it has aluminum end tanks. Can anybody confirm that? I'm wondering if it is similar to the S3 intercooler.

Anybody compare the stock IC to the new one and see if there are any differences?

 

[bmwM5power]

There is, there's is a flap inside and fittings on the intake flange for vacuum lines

 

[rocketride]

So I called the dealer - they "have heard of the problem" They said just tow it in and we'll see what we can do. "May need to pull the head?!" I ask the service manager what will you do to diagnose the problem - "don't know, that's up to the tech, tow it in..."

So my question to the community is what are the correct next steps? (want to give them a hint and make sure they are not doing unnecessary work). Currently the engine is obviously (to me) hydrolocked and I'm not attempting to start it (and I really don't want them to try to start it either).

How do you clear such a hydrolock?

I understand the IC needs to be drained (and I'll ask them to collect what they find) but what if there is already water in the cylinders? Can you pull glow plugs or something and crank to blow it out?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Your service manager is correct. Tow it in for evaluation. Depending on how bad the hydrolock is, they may need to do a compression test to see if the engine sustained any damage (bent connecting rods or something else), which may or may not involve pulling the cylinder head in order to repair the damage.

You can get the water out by pulling the glow plugs, but that may not be the correct procedure according to VW. It's possible that the VW tech line may instruct them to pull the head to clear the hydrolock. Again, I don't know... it's up to the tech and the tech support hotline at VW to make the final determination on what to do.

My advice is to get it on a flat bed and drop it off. VW is well aware of the problem and they have been dealing with it for quite some time now.

 

[ctmoore79]

Update, dealer says they forgot to put in a gasket for one of the hoses going to the intercooler. They were supposed to reuse the gasket from the old hose and did not. I will pick up the car tomorrow after work and see how it runs.

 

[Rob M]

intercooler icing

What did the dealer do? Did he drain the water? What does NDF mean?

I ment to type NPF (no problem found). VOA wants me to take it back to the dealer. But with the car running now and temps above freezing this week. I doubt they will find anything.

 

[Jayg]

Got the cold weather kit on. Its supposed to get down to freezing and humid and then back in the 50s later this week. Fingers crossed.

 

[joes]

2012 GOLF Intercooler frozen Charlotte NC

Last week my intercooler froze on my 2012 Golf near Charlotte NC. Dealer said they had another one with the same problem in there shop and this is the 4th one they have ever seen. CAR was still under warranty with 33000 miles. Warranty for this problem runs out at 36000 miles. Intercooler was replaced. Don't know how VW can sell cars that have a know potential problem without telling people. Hopefully the new intercooler fixes the problem.

 

[kjclow]

Last week my intercooler froze on my 2012 Golf near Charlotte NC. Dealer said they had another one with the same problem in there shop and this is the 4th one they have ever seen. CAR was still under warranty with 33000 miles. Warranty for this problem runs out at 36000 miles. Intercooler was replaced. Don't know how VW can sell cars that have a know potential problem without telling people. Hopefully the new intercooler fixes the problem.

Which dealer did you use? When I had my 60k service done at VW South, the service advisor acted like I was speaking Klingon when I asked her about this. I've not had any issues but wanted to see if they'd done any.

 

[Jayg]

There is, there's is a flap inside and fittings on the intake flange for vacuum lines

The endtanks appears to be aluminum and the original factory ones are plastic correct? I'm wondering if they used an intercooler from another model elsewhere and modified it for our application.

 

[joes]

Which dealer did you use? When I had my 60k service done at VW South, the service advisor acted like I was speaking Klingon when I asked her about this. I've not had any issues but wanted to see if they'd done any.

VW of South Charlotte. They really did not want to talk about this problem.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Dealer knows enough about this in my part of the world that they dubbed this fix the "Quebec kit". It even says so on my invoice!

 

[ctmoore79]

Update, got my car back and everything seems to be working well. Dealer replace gasket that was missing from initial install. No code or hiccups after 50 miles. I made sure I put the car through its paces on the highway and side roads. Hoping that is the end of my IC issues.

 

[HNKS]

Thanks for the update. I'm anticipating a little push back since I was able to choke through starting the car and didn't have it towed immediately.

 

[Engineers<3Diesel]

Update, got my car back and everything seems to be working well. Dealer replace gasket that was missing from initial install. No code or hiccups after 50 miles. I made sure I put the car through its paces on the highway and side roads. Hoping that is the end of my IC issues.

Thanks for being the test car for the dealer! Mine finished up late yesterday and I'm headed to pick it up this afternoon after work. Hopefully they have this install down by now. Finally get to try out my new Ross Tech cable tonight in preparation for my 40k service in my driveway...

 

[ctmoore79]

Thanks for being the test car for the dealer! Mine finished up late yesterday and I'm headed to pick it up this afternoon after work. Hopefully they have this install down by now. Finally get to try out my new Ross Tech cable tonight in preparation for my 40k service in my driveway...

Yeah, I hope they were able to get yours done right on the first try. I also had them do my 20k service. Levels looked good when I checked after picking up the car. Gook luck with your 40k service.

 

[streetshot]

I'm relatively new and its possible after 18 months of lurking this is my first post - embarrassing! And it needs to be said I am beyond grateful for everything I've learned from the time spent here. Amazing.

I started following this thread when I too experienced the difficult start phenomenon in November (it actually happened during last winter too). The car had sat for several days and it was cold, colder than most late Novembers but not ridiculous like the midwest. The symptoms are identical, attempts to start over 10 to 15 minutes like this: crank with no start a handful of times, crank and catch but quickly quits then crank again with nothing, crank with a start but the idle is incredibly rough akin to running a gas engine with water in the line (ask me how I know). It ran so rough it was scary.

Contacted the dealer - who now claims to be the largest in the USA located outside of Boston - and brought the car to them. It sat with them overnight and they "could not reproduce the problem." Had them do an oil change and went home.

Then comes Christmas week and the car sat for a few days and again was very hard to start. This time based on my research here I did not persist in trying and called the dealer immediately. VOA got involved and sent a flatbed and off it went to the dealer for 3 or 4 very cold days with a 20" blizzard on top. Perfect, right? They called to say they had "located the issue" and it was a "defective glow plug" which they claim to have swapped out. According to both service reports (the most recent and the one in November) the tech confirms "no water in the fuel and fuel filter", etc.

Come to this week, the car sat for a day or two and again starts but runs very rough. So I might credit the glow plug replacement with helping a little there is a lot of improvement needed before I can say it starts smoothly.

Not quite at the end of my string on this I did contact VOA yesterday to explain the continued issue and lack of progress. They listened and said they would escalate and bring to the attention of the regional whomever and it would go from there.

I will be update this thread as this drama unfolds.

Thanks again for everything, you've helped this owner a lot.

By the way, this is my second VW diesel, my first was a 1978 Diesel Rabbit I bough new while in graduate school.