Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

[bassman5066]

According to the IC icing maps I have seen, there are plenty in the northeast including PA. I also am curious why this affects some and not others? Driving style and maintenance could account for a small amount, but I think there must be a mechanical issue in the EGR system that may cause too much exhaust gas to be recirculated in some vehicles.

When I bought my car, the EGR cooler was leaking oil so the dealer put a new one on, and told me the oil had been overfilled at last change. Shortly after getting the car I learned of the IC issue and pulled down the IC hose to find a mixture of oil and water which I cleaned out. Six months later when I changed the oil, I checked the IC again, only to find about an ounce of clear water. It may be a stretch, but I wonder if changing the cooler got the system functioning properly? It may have been heading for IC problems.

Just my experience. If this is the case VW should know and just won't spend the money, the cooler was quite expensive.

I think it may be all about driving style. I also said this before. You don't have to beat on it all day long, but I believe every once in a while the engine should be blown out by taking it close to the limiter under heavy load. An "Italian tune up" if you will. Even if you do live in an area that has the factors needed to cause this, you will blow out the little bits of water before it has a chance to build up to the point where a nice slug enters the engine and fills the cylinder.

A little water never hurt anything, but let it build up and you got major problems...

I was not "blowing my motor out" on purpose either, that just happens to be how I drive sometimes. I like to have fun. Never had one water ingestion event.

The only maintenance that I could see making a difference is how often you drain your pipes. In my case, I don't think that means anything, because I never popped the hose till at least 65k when I installed my frostheater. And I don't remember any significant amount of anything coming out of the hose. Same with all the subsequent times I pulled the hoses.

I think it boils down to one thing that is very well known in not just the TDI community, but the whole diesel community. These engines like to work and be driven, sometimes hard. You simply can't granny a diesel. Its not good for it because of many many things.

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[PlaneCrazy]

Why isn't there a NHSTA investigation on this as well? If you drive long enough in a cold environment, the intercooler will/could freeze up with ice and choke off the air intake and cause a stall....Being stranded in sub freezing temperatures is not good for anyone....I am sure that a code would pop up, to warn you before that happens.

I don't know that anybody has experienced that. What has been experienced is a slug of water going into the engine, either while attempting to start, or at wide-open throttle. Both have happened to me. The latter is perhaps more of a safety issue as a couple of times it happened to me either while passing or a tight merge, and both scenarios could have caused an accident.

I suspect the "ice" inside the IC and plumbing is in fact frost, not a solid chunk of ice. When it melts it pools in the lower hose. In really cold weather you're probably better off parking outside rather than in the garage but that doesn't do anything for a really cold drive to work in the morning and then the temperature rises above freezing when you're ready to leave for home in the afternoon.

Bottom line it really is just a crappy design.

 

[steelriver]

I've had two events with my 2010 VW Golf TDI (31,000 miles) when attempting to start on a cold morning (20F) the car would not crank. After two restart tries the car barely started, and then ran ok after a few minutes. I had my VW dealer drain the inter cooler, they got water and gunk from the hose. (Charged me $56) They suggested the $900 fix. Still, I've read of some who had this repair and a year later they had the same problem. I might wait and have them drain the inter cooler when I have my yearly oil change.

 

[bassman5066]

I've had two events with my 2010 VW Golf TDI (31,000 miles) when attempting to start on a cold morning (20F) the car would not crank. After two restart tries the car barely started, and then ran ok after a few minutes. I had my VW dealer drain the inter cooler, they got water and gunk from the hose. (Charged me $56) They suggested the $900 fix. Still, I've read of some who had this repair and a year later they had the same problem. I might wait and have them drain the inter cooler when I have my yearly oil change.

They charge $900 for the intercooler TSB when your out of warranty?

Run away and get used to draining the pipes at oil changes.

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[fdizz]

Do you guys drain both pipes or just the passenger side one?

 

[da.hs]

I have this error code after a recent cold drive:
1 Fault Found:
000618 - Charge Air Cooler
P026A - 000 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 82848 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2042.14.19
Time: 19:04:15
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1219 /min
Speed: 51.0 km/h
Temperature: 4.5°C
Temperature: -24.3°C
(no units): 66.3
Temperature: 66.0°C
(no units): 40.0
Readiness: 0 1 0 0 0

Likely to be the I/C icing issue of this thread or something else? No operational problems, just the CEL

I had no problems in its first winter, 3 or 4 no-starts and one brief power loss in its second due to I/C icing, one no-start in third winter ("cold weather kit" was fitted by that time). Thanks...

 

[RES]

Do you guys drain both pipes or just the passenger side one?

The first time I had the problem I opened both hoses. I only found water in the larger one on the passenger side of the car. Since then I have only been accessing the passenger side hose.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

J

They charge $900 for the intercooler TSB when your out of warranty?

Run away and get used to draining the pipes at oil changes.

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That might not be enough. In the right conditions, mine can accumulate enough water to be a problem in less than 200 km. and that is WITH the IC TSB.

On the other hand my wife's 2013 has never had an issue. It's -26C here today and if I drive it enough and park it in my garage just above freezing, I anticipate at least a rough start tomorrow. Which is what I want to document it with an iPhone video for VW.

The only solution is to drain frequently or an Italian tuneup every 100 km or so, which may be of little value against ice that's already formed.

In winter I advocate hard driving instead, cruising in 5th, etc. Fuel economy is going to be crap anyway in winter. That might prevent ice from forming.

 

[Revpeach]

The only problem I've had with hard starts was after I spent 3 hours driving in a snow storm in bumper to bumper traffic. Never got over 45 mph and mostly at 30 to 35 mph. The next day I had a hard start that took three tries to get the engine running. I believe it was all that low rpm/speed driving that set the condition for water build up. When I pulled my IC hose at 35K to install my frost heater, there was nothing in the hose.

 

[TDI'in]

I spoke with the dealer today, and it looks like it's going to cost me 855 for the kit. That really irritates me! The regional manager is supposed to call me on Monday and discuss my situation. I notified the dealer that I had issues starting the vehicle at 30k, but they said it wasn't throwing any CEL's and they said it was hard to pinpoint a problem if the vehicle doesn't throw a code. Also, checked my records, I have in writing that I reported the issue to the dealer when it was under warranty. I currently have126XXX on the vehicle. Any pointers for dealing with VWoA? Hopefully VWoA picks up the tab on this.

 

[Mfisher]

Don't hold your breath. Every TDI of this vintage has this faulty system. If they fix one, they have to fix them all... I don't know of anyone that has had theirs covered...

 

[tdiatlast]

I spoke with the dealer today, and it looks like it's going to cost me 855 for the kit. That really irritates me! The regional manager is supposed to call me on Monday and discuss my situation. I notified the dealer that I had issues starting the vehicle at 30k, but they said it wasn't throwing any CEL's and they said it was hard to pinpoint a problem if the vehicle doesn't throw a code. Also, checked my records, I have in writing that I reported the issue to the dealer when it was under warranty. I currently have126XXX on the vehicle. Any pointers for dealing with VWoA? Hopefully VWoA picks up the tab on this.

Since you had the issue documented, I believe you should stand your ground and insist that VWoA pick up the tab for this.
Obviously, this has been a known issue for several years now. There's no way they can hide behind the lack of a code being thrown.

 

[kjclow]

For those that have had issues, like plane crazy, has your car ever thrown a code for the IC helping push water into the system?

 

[PlaneCrazy]

For those that have had issues, like plane crazy, has your car ever thrown a code for the IC helping push water into the system?

No, no code. VW will fix it under warranty if the car is still under warranty. Beyond that your out of luck.

 

[Azone]

Hang on, I seem to be getting mixed information. Is this issue not covered under the 5 year/60000 mile powertrain warranty?

 

[TDI'in]

Hang on, I seem to be getting mixed information. Is this issue not covered under the 5 year/60000 mile powertrain warranty?

Technically, the cooling system wouldn't fall under the 60k power train warranty. Good luck!

Does anyone know who we can report this issue to? Hopefully we can get a recall.

 

[vipmike]

Hi..It is possible to install 2011 Passat tdi intercooler to 2011 jetta tdi?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Technically, the cooling system wouldn't fall under the 60k power train warranty. Good luck!
Does anyone know who we can report this issue to? Hopefully we can get a recall.

Report it to the NHTSA.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

 

[path23dv]

Well, it happened to me again, now at 72k miles. Car has been sitting in 20-40 degree weather for last 4 days, I guess I should have put it on ramps so I could at least drain the intercooler. This is the third time, first time under warranty, no 'fix' was available. Second out of warranty, VW would only pay for parts, not labor to install 'fix'. Luckily I have a very reliable Toyota I can use to get to work. Time to look for another car, winters have become too anxious.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Hang on, I seem to be getting mixed information. Is this issue not covered under the 5 year/60000 mile powertrain warranty?

No only the 50k mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. It's important to get the issue documented under the 50k warranty.

 

[Campbellonh]

Ours was covered, and we have 47K on it. They didn't even try to argue. It does seem to vary a lot between different dealers.

 

[NYC-TDI]

For those that have had issues, like plane crazy, has your car ever thrown a code for the IC helping push water into the system?

I have had water ingestion several times, including full on hydro-locking. Never threw a code. Which was always VW's excuse not to do anything. I made several trips to the dealer, even going so far as to bring a copy of the TSB with me, all to no avail. Finally at my 30K service (during springtime of this year) they agreed to install the new intercooler kit. Of course they initially screwed up the install but eventually got it right. Now that winter is here again I have had a few sputters of water ingestion but not as bad as in previous years. So I guess the new intercooler sort of works but doesn't truly fix the problem. Also I have noticed a decrease in MPG's with the new intercooler. Others have reported this as well.

All in all unacceptable by my standards. Clearly this vehicle was improperly designed and tested for the conditions in which it would operate. For the privilege of spending 25K on our TDI's we became the de facto beta testers. Then after the thousands and thousands of negative results were in VW did...NOTHING. To this day all the new TDI's (except Passat) are still manufactured with the original intercooler. They will only install the "improved" intercooler after numerous no-starts, strandings, dealer visits, screaming sessions, begging sessions, hours of calls to "customer service" and proper alignment of the stars. This should have been a mandatory recall from day one and they should have incorporated the new design into their assembly line. To me the fact that they didn’t is a big F you to their customers and it is why I will never be one of their customers again.

 

[STRANGETDI]

Has anyone who first had issues, then decided to start driving in a lower gear than what is normal for them, had further issues.

 

[ticketed2much]

All in all unacceptable by my standards. Clearly this vehicle was improperly designed and tested for the conditions in which it would operate. For the privilege of spending 25K on our TDI's we became the de facto beta testers. Then after the thousands and thousands of negative results were in VW did...NOTHING. To this day all the new TDI's (except Passat) are still manufactured with the original intercooler. They will only install the "improved" intercooler after numerous no-starts, strandings, dealer visits, screaming sessions, begging sessions, hours of calls to "customer service" and proper alignment of the stars. This should have been a mandatory recall from day one and they should have incorporated the new design into their assembly line. To me the fact that they didn’t is a big F you to their customers and it is why I will never be one of their customers again.

Although I agree with you that the issue SHOULD have been worked out, IMO it is not specifically the intercooler that is causing the problem, but the low pressure EGR system. This emissions system has to be so complicated to deal with the new US diesel emissions standard, even diesel trucks are having the same issue. Honestly I am not sure there is a fix for the problem, maybe some ways to mitigate it which people on this thread have suggested.

From VW's view we as Americans enacted these emissions standards, we wanted a diesel, which they didn't make in the US for a few years before this engine, and now we have this overly complex system that their wonderful technicians have a hard time fixing! I am not sure what the standards in Europe are, but I doubt they use the same system.

 

[Mfisher]

For the privilege of spending 25K on our TDI's we became the de facto beta testers. Then after the thousands and thousands of negative results were in VW did...NOTHING. .....They will only install the "improved" intercooler after numerous no-starts, strandings, dealer visits, screaming sessions, begging sessions, hours of calls to "customer service" and proper alignment of the stars. This should have been a mandatory recall from day one and they should have incorporated the new design into their assembly line. To me the fact that they didn’t is a big F you to their customers and it is why I will never be one of their customers again.

+1

You nailed it. I wish everyone that ever considers. Buying a VW (of any model) considers this. There should be a class action lawsuit.

Matt

 

[Mfisher]

Oh yeah... And you still have to pay for it yourself...

 

[Felix_Gaunt]

lol You're lucky it didn't destroy your engine like it did mine, pretty much totaled my car with a simple turn of the key. I'm waiting for a call back from the dealer, he said he spoke with VW and given that they are trying their darnedest to ignore the problem I think they are going to say screw you. If that happens I'm off to talk to a lawyer. Ugh....

 

[S2000_guy]

+1

...There should be a class action lawsuit.

Matt

So the affected owners can get a coupon for a couple of hundred off the purchase price of a new VW?

 

[kjclow]

The last class action I was involved with, I got a check for $8.35. Big deal

 

[bmwM5power]

I might sound a little harsh in my comment but everyone who is complaining about having the engine hydro locked or sucking up some water did not do their homework of getting the car prepared for the winter season, and now paying the price for being lazy not to check the hoses before the cold hit, those who were not aware of this are excluded, but for those who knew about this issue there is no excuse