Hard start after timing belt job, please help

[d2freeman]

What he said, I have done this job 3 times now and each time after rotating 2 times I had to adjust again to get the pins back in.

 

[turbobrick240]

I'm pretty sure the car would be throwing codes if the cam timing was off. Perhaps not if the hpfp is 180* out of whack. If the car ran well for 10 miles, it's not off on cam timing enough to hurt anything by running it some more.

 

[eugene89us]

I worked about 23 hours over the 2 days this weekend, but I was still checking up this forum for the photos. Without photos to show cam and HPFP slots with crankshaft locked, all we can do is hypothesize. Having seen someone else struggle with hard starts by being 1 tooth off makes me reasonably confident in that hypothesis, though I do not claim to be a mechanic. It may be just about anything related to fuel/air delivery, though wouldn't you expect misfires at load if the air in the fuel system hypothesis is the culprit? I did not disconnect fuel lines at other users' recommendation, so I did not have to deal with airlock concerns.

 

[eugene89us]

LOL. I won't lie - it took me 5 or 6 tries to get the pins to go in after 2 complete rotations. I would have perfect fit for all 3 pins - crank, cam, and HPFP. I would not even try to readjust HPFP, but after correction, all pins would fit like a glove! Then I would turn twice, and camshaft and HPFP would stop fitting. Always had to turn crank counterclockwise to remove slack, then clockwise to re-pin crankshaft - once cam was re-pinned, crank pin was always over to the right of the hole by a hair. So you had to loosen camshaft, move crank counterclockwise, then clockwise back until pin went in. Repeat 2 rotations - no go again!

Then I realized when I would lock camshaft, loosened the 3 bolts and turned crankshaft backward then forward, the tensioner needle would still be in right place but slightly different compared to if I only moved the crank twice in a correct direction. It seemed like going opposite direction, then forward direction caused slightly different tension in belt compared to only clockwise direction.

So for the final attempt, I found the pin holes perfectly, and then before tightening camshaft sprocket, I removed all the pins and *purposefully* offset cam pin hole a little so pin would barely stop fitting (I cannot recall which direction now), but literally by a hair - opposite way and amount that I always was off after 2 spins. Then I tightened everything, turned the crank twice - locked crankshaft and had a PERFECT fit for camshaft. HPFP was close, but stopped fitting by a hair, which is fine. Then I did it again - perfect cam-crank fit, and once more for good measure - all perfectly fitting! That was my workaround, because the normal way always caused the pins not to fit, despite perfect alignment during readjustment process. The car started like nothing happened once things got put together, a great relief for me. My plight is likely unique, but my end goal was to fit pins perfectly after 2, 4, 6 crank rotations, and it did. But I had to do some funky junk to make that happen since factory process did not work out.

 

[iaiadimon]

Hi everybody, after replacing timing on the TDI you take VCDS and check in the programme how right you adjust 1-st die point. The new belt tighter vs old . And yes I’m use VW tool for lock crankshaft and camshaft when replace timing

 

[Will27]

Then I realized when I would lock camshaft, loosened the 3 bolts and turned crankshaft backward then forward, the tensioner needle would still be in right place but slightly different compared to if I only moved the crank twice in a correct direction. It seemed like going opposite direction, then forward direction caused slightly different tension in belt compared to only clockwise direction

If you turn the crank counter clockwise it puts tension on the back of the belt and slack on the front, which is the opposite of how it operates. If you need to turn the engine ccw for some reason, do it from the cam sprocket. This will keep the slack in the belt by the tensioner where it should be

 

[AverageAndy]

Hi everybody, after replacing timing on the TDI you take VCDS and check in the programme how right you adjust 1-st die point. The new belt tighter vs old . And yes I’m use VW tool for lock crankshaft and camshaft when replace timing

You don't need VCDS to do the timing belt, unless you want to run the fuel pump (assuming you unhooked any lines). Yes, the new belt is tighter than the old and will probably stretch a little, so I think most will set the tensioner to the right (tightest) side of the adjustment window.

 

[eugene89us]

If you turn the crank counter clockwise it puts tension on the back of the belt and slack on the front, which is the opposite of how it operates. If you need to turn the engine ccw for some reason, do it from the cam sprocket. This will keep the slack in the belt by the tensioner where it should be

Will, you're absolutely right. But you have to turn the engine CCW when you are adjusting the timing if your crank hole is to the right when you cam is locked. Once you do your 2 clockwise turns, then you try to fit the pins and they do not fit after you locked the crank, the procedure has you remove crank lock, move the crankshaft until the camshaft pin fits, then you have to loosen camshaft sprocket and decide where you need to move crankshaft to re-pin it. In my case, crankshaft was always off the hole to the right. Which requires crankshaft to be moved clockwise up to max camshaft window allowance, then move back clockwise until pin would enter the hole. You cannot tighten from camshaft when you loosened your 3 bolts. But moving maximum CCW and then moving back CW still created different tensioner tightness that after 2 revolutions. Hence the reason for my modified re-pinning where I purposefully tightened the crank pulley where it would barely not fit into the pin hole. And after 2 revolutions it would be a perfect fit. The normal procedure always produced same effect. After 5 attempts, I had to adjust the technique as to how I pinned when tensioner is not properly slacked and once I started to move crank CW only, then the tensioner slack was correct and pins fit. That was my goal and that was repetitive x 3 where after 3 double crank rotations, both crank and cam pins would fit perfectly, and that was a perfect job. HPFP did not fit, but was very close.

 

[iaiadimon]

Yes you need VCDS. I’m not first who read information about position camshaft and after make adjusting. 1st connect VCDS, go to engine. Go to Block measuring . Activate group 004 and check parameters « torsion value « they can be from minus to positive numbers. We need to make them 0. After you loose 3 bolts on the sprocket and mouve left or right. And again check camshaft position . Internet full of vidéo how make camshaft adjusting using VCDS. Good luck

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

Yes you need VCDS. I’m not first who read information about position camshaft and after make adjusting. 1st connect VCDS, go to engine. Go to Block measuring . Activate group 004 and check parameters « torsion value « they can be from minus to positive numbers. We need to make them 0. After you loose 3 bolts on the sprocket and mouve left or right. And again check camshaft position . Internet full of vidéo how make camshaft adjusting using VCDS. Good luck

On UDS ECU, you can't get into measuring blocks.

 

[iaiadimon]

Thanks Veteran, it’s true. So open VCDS go to engine, Go to advance measuring, from the list take « Camshaft adaptation intake Bank1 « and look on the actual value. After you can make adjusting camshaft sprocket. ( it’s not so easy catch this moment when you need 0) I make tool to push sprocket : two flat metal bar , drill 3 holy 2 big bolt with nuts for sprocket one small bolt with nuts for top to connect 2 bar together

 

[Will27]

Will, you're absolutely right. But you have to turn the engine CCW when you are adjusting the timing if your crank hole is to the right when you cam is locked. Once you do your 2 clockwise turns, then you try to fit the pins and they do not fit after you locked the crank, the procedure has you remove crank lock, move the crankshaft until the camshaft pin fits, then you have to loosen camshaft sprocket and decide where you need to move crankshaft to re-pin it. In my case, crankshaft was always off the hole to the right. Which requires crankshaft to be moved clockwise up to max camshaft window allowance, then move back clockwise until pin would enter the hole. You cannot tighten from camshaft when you loosened your 3 bolts. But moving maximum CCW and then moving back CW still created different tensioner tightness that after 2 revolutions. Hence the reason for my modified re-pinning where I purposefully tightened the crank pulley where it would barely not fit into the pin hole. And after 2 revolutions it would be a perfect fit. The normal procedure always produced same effect. After 5 attempts, I had to adjust the technique as to how I pinned when tensioner is not properly slacked and once I started to move crank CW only, then the tensioner slack was correct and pins fit. That was my goal and that was repetitive x 3 where after 3 double crank rotations, both crank and cam pins would fit perfectly, and that was a perfect job. HPFP did not fit, but was very close.

IMO would do this one of these ways (of course you got your engine in time, just for discussion)

Where the manual says to turn the Crank back, I think it better use the T10172 tool or metalnerd equivalent and turn the engine CCW from the cam sprocket. The Cam sprocket is loose at this point and can rotate on its hub, so it achieves the same thing (moving the Crank CCW) but without moving the slack to the wrong side of the belt. I guess the manual's method would work if you turn the crank CCW far enough that when you turn it CW again, there is enough movement for the slack in the belt to sort itself out again... but why bother with all that?

The way I do it is when rotating the crank 2 times CW, don't overshoot TDC of the crank - stop when the crank pin sides in perfectly or when the pin just rubs the back side of the hole lightly. Then, if you can't slide the Cam and HPFP pins in, loosen the Cam and HPFP sprocket bolts and nudge the Cam and HPFP into position by their centre hub bolts and tighten. Should be good now! A lot less getting up and down too if your're working on jack stands etc. Rotate the crank from below into position, then adjust from the top.