Gummed up VE Pump. How to clean.

[yahjnby]

Hi.

My 98 manual new beetle's timing belt broke on the highway two years ago and I became the proud owner of a project car. It was at about 180k miles. Over the last two years, as any time allowed, I have rebuilt the engine with help from Frank06. Very cool!

But my pump sat with b99 biodiesel in it for two years. I tried to start the car but had no fuel at the injectors. I gave the pump a good external scrubbing. I pulled off the quantity adjuster and there is a brown film on everything in the pump. I had to lightly unstick the quantity adjusters ring on the pump shaft. Frank said to try and fill it with diesel purge and let it sit. I siphoned the old biodiesel out of the body and poured in diesel purge. I sealed it up and tried to prime it more using more diesel purge and a mighty vac.

So that's where it stands now. I guess I'm glad nothing made it to the injectors.

Has anyone had any experience cleaning out the film? It rubs off. I'd pull the pump apart, but I understand you can't get it timed correctly afterwards. I thought I saw a thread that indicated it could be done with a dial indicator, but I did not bookmark where I saw that.

I'm having a hard time priming it at the return line. I get a vacuum of 30 on my mighty vac, a bunch of bubbles, and a very slow flow into the pump.

I fussed with things a little. See if anything helped.

I pulled the shutoff solenoid off and cleaned it. Poured diesel purge in the hole it came out of, and it dribbled out one of the delivery valves. I rotated the engine and got it to come out of the other three.

I cleaned out the pressure valve on the return line at the top of the pump.

I'm thinking of cleaning the regulating valve near the pump intake. I feel like I'm tinkering at the edges with my experiments if the stuff in the body of the pump does not dissolve.

Any experience would be helpful.

I pulled another pump off a manual new beetle at my local pick n pull. For $45 I figured it would be good for practice or for spare parts, but I'm wondering if I should just swap that one in. After looking inside first of course.

I'm waiting for viton seals for my current pump, assuming I can get it working, so I can switch and use the new renewable diesel which I can get locally.

While I wait, I thought I'd ask around.

Here's a pic. yum yum. lol

 

[jimbote]

full dissemble and clean. The lift pump elements are most likely stuck solid and no amount of soaking will free them up in situ. Also Zep floor wax stripper works fantastic for removing polymerized biodiesel.

 

[KLXD]

Did you suck some of the purge through the inlet to free up the lift pump or force some through? Just pouring it in the top won't get it back there.

The timing issue if disassembled is getting the sprocket flange on the shaft clocked correctly. Seems to me if you're smart enough to use the dial indicator and instructions to get it clocked right during assembly you could use it before disassembly to figger out its present clocking.

I also think it's not that critical. If it's a little off from the nominal position one might have trouble with the initial static timing but the final setting using VCDS would be what matters.

I've read here that there's a flat on the shaft accessible through the plug near the sprocket end where a bolt is installed to index the shaft. I couldn't find it on a pump I have but a mark could be made through it before removing the flange.

What are all those punch marks on the QA gasket's sealing surface? Scary.

 

[jimbote]

Did you suck some of the purge through the inlet to free up the lift pump or force some through? Just pouring it in the top won't get it back there.

The timing issue if disassembled is getting the sprocket flange on the shaft clocked correctly. Seems to me if you're smart enough to use the dial indicator and instructions to get it clocked right during assembly you could use it before disassembly to figger out its present clocking.

no "flat" but there is a tick mark on the seal snout that lines up with the vestigial keyway on the shaft. Get those together and you're close enough.


I also think it's not that critical. If it's a little off from the nominal position one might have trouble with the initial static timing but the final setting using VCDS would be what matters.

I've read here that there's a flat on the shaft accessible through the plug near the sprocket end where a bolt is installed to index the shaft. I couldn't find it on a pump I have but a mark could be made through it before removing the flange.

What are all those punch marks on the QA gasket's sealing surface? Scary.

 

[prsa01]

Ultrasonic parts cleaner along with chemical(s) of choice may be worth a shot. Only thing I can think of, short of full disassemble, that might help the chemicals do their job. Will need to ensure chems get to all the internals.

 

[yahjnby]

What are all those punch marks on the QA gasket's sealing surface? Scary.

I think those are just little droplets diesel purge.
I did manage to get some diesel purge to go into the pump input. I’ve got a second can of diesel purge, I’m gonna try to suck the old stuff out and replace it with the new in a day or two. I’ll hook the can of diesel purge up to the input hose and apply vacuum to the return line.

 

[tgray]

I have a couple of gummed up pumps myself and have been looking for the best stuff to cut through the gum. I will have to try the zep floor cleaner. I found chem dip cuts it a little but there is caution on soaking the aluminum too long in that stuff. Paint remover does pretty good I found on the small parts but I would not want to use this unless I took every piece apart as this will destroy the seals like chem dip. I have soaked them in diesel purge, and every solvent I can find in the shop but not much will deal with this stuff. In my mind once it hits the gel stage it is playing with disaster not to tear it all down and clean it all out. I have wondered about having someone boil it out in a commercial parts washer as long as the additive was not caustic to the metals. I am all ears too on finding any answers to deal with the pump all together. This has concerned me about my project cars sitting around that I have been running straight kerosene into the pump before I shut it down for a long storage. At least I know the kerosene doesn't have the bio-fuels mixed in to gel later on.

 

[tgray]

The pumps I have look and probably feel way worse than this one. Some are so bad they will barely turn over and everything sticking.

 

[fatmobile]

I think the "hard to get it timed right" concern about taking it apart
refers to the fact the hub needs to be put back in the same place on the mainshaft.
If you use a dial gauge to see where it's at before you pull it apart
you can put it right back where you found it.

 

[Andyinchville1]

I'd try the poor mans ultrasonic cleaner ...

Fill a large pot with your favorite cleaning agent / solvent , use an aquarium air pump and air stone to agitate.

Optional but probably highly recommended .... Add heat .... (hot plate or stove).

Needless to say be careful if using heat .

Andrew

 

[yahjnby]

I’m enjoying various YouTube videos of older British gentleman taking “Bosch pooomps apaaat”.
Turns out typing ALH TDI pump In YouTube opens up quite a rabbit hole.
I called up Jim at diesel geek where I’ve ordered my seals and asked him a couple of questions. Poor guy was very patient. I reminded myself of my mother when she calls me on the phone to ask me for computer help. Tring to describe what she sees on the screen. I’m going to memorize the name and location of every piece on that pump before I call anybody again on the phone. LOL

 

[Rrusse11]

Put the $45 pump on and give it a whirl. You might get lucky. If not, lots of pumps around for $150 that work.

 

[yahjnby]

Put the $45 pump on and give it a whirl. You might get lucky. If not, lots of pumps around for $150 that work.

I got that advice from someone else too. I'm considering it. I might put the junker on a table and prime it with diesel purge, try and rotate it and see if stuff comes out the nozzles.
Digging around in my garage I found another pump I had taken off an automatic to just take apart and look at a year ago before I knew mine had issues. I thought my roommates threw it away, but it just went deep into the garage. So now I have three pumps. One gummed up and two old mystery boxes. Options options. Fortunately I have time.

 

[yahjnby]

full dissemble and clean.

That sounds like the most fun idea. I'm going to study more first.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

Carburetor cleaner works well to remove the slimy stuff, I don't know about bio-d leftovers though.

 

[tgray]

After reading this post I tried a few things on a gummed up pump I have sitting around with the top off. Carb cleaner didn't seem to do much. It seemed soaking it in seafoam injector cleaner helped the most to dissolve the gum but was still lacking. With the top part frozen up I tried heating it up with a torch a little and that helped work in some penetrating oil. But, the interesting fact to note was even though I loosened up the slide ring for the throttle control I found the actual rollers that drive the injectors remained frozen solid. Even if this pump would run on the car it would self destruct down the road. If the pump is just slightly gummed up then soaking it in some kind of diesel purge and running on clean diesel until it gets warm may clean it out but my vote is to take it all apart and do it right. It seems that once the biofuels polymerize beyond the point of no return then they must be torn down and totally cleaned up. I have started to store my spare pumps or cars that will sit a while with running kerosene through the system. At least that doesn't have the bio fuel additives.

 

[KLXD]

How know you that the rollers are frozen? Do you have it apart? I'm thinking that even if they are gummed up they are loaded enough that they can't help rolling once the shaft starts turning. Hard to believe they'd find it easier to slide than turn but maybe so.

I thought one of the good things about bio was its cleaning ability? We're not talking about grease here are we? Some folks seem to use bio to refer to old fryer grease.

 

[yahjnby]

My car had professional Biodiesel in it.
I Switched the pump out with one off of a working car. I want to break my engine in before I try to mess with a rebuilt pump.
I’m going to take apart the gummed up one, mostly because it looks fun. clean it all up and put it all back together. And see if I can get it to work.

 

[BobnOH]

Just from following these forums for 20 years I can tell you it may work, but odds are against you. Carbs, alternators, starters, etc, Yes, Injection Pumps and Turbochargers, No. I do hope you have success. Many report problems switching between bio and D2.
From Penn State-
Deposits and clogging: deposits and clogging due to biodiesel have been widely reported but are generally traceable to biodiesel that is either of low quality or has become oxidized. If fuel quality is high, deposits in the engine should not normally be a problem.

 

[tgray]

The top is off the pump and I can look down into the pump and see the rollers. The pump will turn fine but the rollers are all gummed up and don't turn with the rotation like they should - not a good thing. What I meant by bio is all diesel has at least 10% bio where I live. All I know is that diesel used to last a long time but that is no longer the case. I have had cars sit for a few years and it smelled a looked a little bad and still be fine but then all of a sudden it seems things go bad in a hurry. At first I thought my observation was from a pump that had ran vegetable oil or something but then I saw the same problem happen in a pump I know only had regular diesel put in it. I have at least 4 spare pumps in my collection that are all gummed up sitting around. Poor quality fuel can cause problems short term but what I am seeing and talking about is any fuel that is from the pumps where I live causes big problems in the long term - maybe after 5 years or more. 100% bio diesel just turns to polymerized gum faster.