Guage Cluster dies above 1000 RPM

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
Transferred from "What's New"

New owner of a 2003 Jetta TDI 5 sp wagon. New forum member.
Few days ago started seeing the Instrument Cluster intermittently die then come back. Then the whole car died. Battery showed 2.94V, so I replaced the 6 yr old battery. Now things appear back to normal until I get to about 1000 RPM and the Instrument Cluster [IC] dies again.

When starting the center display comes alive with all the "show on start" icons.

Tested by running with traffic [about 50 MPH] and put in neutral to let RPM's drop and the cluster comes alive. Tach says 900 RPM on engine 42 MPH on Speedo - till I let out the clutch and RPMs go over 1000 and it dies again. Repeated the coasting test and simply blipped the throttle and the IC dies and restores and repeats.

I was asked whether the voltage drops as the cluster dies, but I'm not sure where I should be checking voltage and welcome that and any other input.

I've wandered around here for the past week or so, but haven't seen anything like this. If I say "Pretty Please" can someone point me in the right direction?
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
Few quick things, maybe. Long shot.
Check the ground connections from battery, to the body, to the trans.
If the body ground is bad everything that grounds to the body is bad.

Next, with the car running do a voltage drop test from the battery negative post to the ground stud under the dash.
Same test to the one behind the drivers side left kick panel.
I would not want to see more then a few tenths of a volt.
See it the drop reading changes with the heater fan on. (load added)
 

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
Thanks, I was beginning to think nobody liked me! ;)

The car is really new to me, where would I find the ground stud under the dash? I should be able to find the one behind the drivers kick panel.

When I checked this AM, the battery was down to about 10.4 V, so I'll be checking the Alternator output as well - maybe first??? :)
 

03_Jetta_TDI

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Location
Daytona Beach
TDI
2003 VW TDI
I've had a car that had a draw on it. If I left it for more than a few days without running it, it'd be dead and no start. Ended up being a bad corroded ground wire. Little sandpaper and a ratchet and was good as new and didn't have to worry about it.
 

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
But what explains the consistent loss of the Instrument Cluster at 1000 RPM. There very little increase in the voltage driving the tach and speedo?

It's not like it got hot and resistance increased ????
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
If you put a new battery in your car within the last few days and it’s down to 10.4 then you either have a parasitic draw or your alternator is not charging.

Your new battery should be at 12.7-12.8v. Start your car recheck the battery posts with your multimeter. You should now be seeing 13.8-14.2v. If you are not check the Voltage at the big (13mm) bolt on the back of the alternator, does the voltage there fall within the 13.8-14.2 range? If it does and the previous reading at the battery top is lower then you have a bad or loose battery cable, clean and tighten and recheck. If the battery top reading is still low replace the cable. If the alternator output at the big bolt is below the +/- 14v range, replace the alternator with a new/rebuilt Bosch.

If everything checks out ok it’s time to start looking for a parasitic draw and fully recharge your battery.
 
Last edited:

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Good suggestions all above. I'm not sure at what rpm the alternator voltage regulator switches the charge circuit ON, but it sounds like there is something faulty with the system there if the IC cluster goes on/off regularly like it's switched. A short in the charge wire from the alternator (bad connection, bare wire, etc) can cause some strange stuff and even be a battery draw. Perhaps even alternator internal fault.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Thanks, I was beginning to think nobody liked me! ;)

The car is really new to me, where would I find the ground stud under the dash? I should be able to find the one behind the drivers kick panel.

When I checked this AM, the battery was down to about 10.4 V, so I'll be checking the Alternator output as well - maybe first??? :)
Your issue is a bit unique. The ground point you describe is the one that grounds the cluster. I like the approach of troubleshooting the electric storage/charge system first. If it all checks out, look at the cluster connects.
 

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
OK, rains stopped and I checked Voltage after ensuring Batt was up to 12.6V. Started engine and voltage at batt and from Alt lug to battery neg, was 15.7 to 18.1, so I know I have a Regulator Issue. Repeated the voltage test after running the RPM up to 1400, no change in charging voltage (still high) but the Instrument Cluster died, then recovered when below 1000 RPM, Is there a overvoltage protection for the instruments? Voltage was "always" high, only the RPMs changed.

Another point,

Following the video from Kansas City TDI, I tried to check the alternator one-way clutch to see if there's a resistance to spinning in one direction - but my alternator doesn't have the cooling fan blades between the Regulator and the body of the Alternator. I can't see a brand name, Do I have the wrong (or aftermarket) Alternator?

TIA
 

msadkins3378

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2018
Location
Apopka
TDI
2006 Jetta
Transferred from "What's New"

New owner of a 2003 Jetta TDI 5 sp wagon. New forum member.
Few days ago started seeing the Instrument Cluster intermittently die then come back. Then the whole car died. Battery showed 2.94V, so I replaced the 6 yr old battery. Now things appear back to normal until I get to about 1000 RPM and the Instrument Cluster [IC] dies again.

When starting the center display comes alive with all the "show on start" icons.

Tested by running with traffic [about 50 MPH] and put in neutral to let RPM's drop and the cluster comes alive. Tach says 900 RPM on engine 42 MPH on Speedo - till I let out the clutch and RPMs go over 1000 and it dies again. Repeated the coasting test and simply blipped the throttle and the IC dies and restores and repeats.

I was asked whether the voltage drops as the cluster dies, but I'm not sure where I should be checking voltage and welcome that and any other input.

I've wandered around here for the past week or so, but haven't seen anything like this. If I say "Pretty Please" can someone point me in the right direction?
I had heat problems with wiring, so I replaced it! Not fun at all! It did change things! BUT! BUT! The Clockspring has some sort of control over the dash, Mine is a TDI MK V Jetta 2006, and the clock spring has cleaned up my dash panel! BTW, its under the driver airbag!
 

msadkins3378

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2018
Location
Apopka
TDI
2006 Jetta
VW wiring stinks, your cluster is run partially by the clock spring, under your driver airbag! The HORN! Column disassembly required! Now, All fuses need to be replaced, exactly! That clock spring? That runs the instrument cluster! Also, buy a plug in meter, for under your dash, it will speak volumes about your car, through your computer!
Finally, get an awesome German mechanic, and make a great friend of them! DO NOT USE VW MECHANICS, dumb as dirt!
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Change out the alternator, make sure it has the correct one way clutch pulley. 15-18v is way to high.
 

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
Tdijarhead,

Thanks, do you have an explanation or theory for the gage cluster dying above 1000 RPM?
Also, I verified good ground for the charging system.
 

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
Actually, when I revved it up, the voltage stayed around 16.1. It didn't "jump" when it passed 1000.

OTOH, the current should increase, does that fit a scenario?

Thanks
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Even though it doesn’t jump at 16.1 it still a bit much by 2v. Just as an under changing alternator and resulting low battery will cause all kinds of electrical issues so also will an overcharging alternator. I wouldn’t drive it till I got that alternator changed out.


Idparts also has a Valero and a TYC for less money, all look to include the pulley. I would go with the Bosch but the others would probably (?) be fine.

You might be able to pick one up locally.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
I’ve never used either source. Idparts is a supporter of this forum, other places I’ve purchased from. Metalmanparts, timing kits, various other parts, prices are good service is excellent. Cascadegerman, only a couple of parts from these guys but I had a good experience and quality items. All three of these vendors support this forum and are known to carry quality items.

I know that price can be a concern sometimes so if these others have a better price give them a shot. If you buy with the pulley already installed you won’t have to mess with it. The pulley requires a special tool to install and remove. Unless you have the tool make sure you get one with the pulley installed.

 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
A bad ground on the alternator can cause high voltage.
With the engine running, lights & fan on measure the voltage from the negative -post- of the battery to the case of the alternator.
I would not want to see more then a few tenths of a volt.
Also measure for AC voltage on the battery posts.
Again should not be much. (bad diode test)
 

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
I tested the alternator ground as described on another forum.

Checked battery, pole to pole, then alternator to neg pole. Delta Voltage was 0.04. Verified with two DVOMs.

The gauge cluster dying above 1000 RPM remains a mystery. (note, Alt output doesn't drop above 1000 RPM)
 

03TDICommuter

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Location
So. Cal
TDI
01' NB, 5spd
Anyone know if the alternator on the Mk4 uses a separate sense lead to measure the battery voltage? Some other makes do and if the connection is bad, the output of the alternator will be affected.
 

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
Anticipating the arrival of my Alternator, (which spent the first 5 days going from IN to NY to MA then to two or three places in CT, I began disassembly today. One thing I found was wet oil inside the fresh air intake. Is this normal, if not what do I look for?

Second, there is a "ball" on the right (driver) side, in front of the head that appears to have missing the upper/forward attach point, allowing it to move around. Can anyone share what's used to fasten the ball at that point?

TIA, Marc
 

Marc Bourget

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Stockton, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta
Installed Rebuilt Alternator and the cluster stays alive. The explanation that the cluster has overvoltage protection appears confirmed.

Alt charging rate on first start up is 14.4V. I thought 13.6 to 13.9 was the acceptable range.

Comments on the voltage level will be appreciated.
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
13.8-14.4 is good, 14.4 is actually very good, if you have an ultragauge hooked up like I do when I drive you would see that the voltage actually varies a few tenths of a volt as you drive and put different loads on the engine. Glad you were able to solve your problem.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
The fact that the gauge cluster shut down at a certain repeatable rpm made me think it was probably something internal alternator/regulator related as when my friend that rebuilds starters/alternators bench tests them it's quite obvious when the regulator switches to "charge" mode and the load on the test electric motor kicks in.
Glad to hear it was "just" the alternator and not the cluster.
As most report, my ScanGauge shows around 14.2 volts typical running and a bit higher after a start. You are in good shape with those voltages.
 

ToxicDoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Location
Virginia, US
TDI
2001 Jetta, S7, .216
14.4 is fine. Voltage varies by the battery's state of charge, ambient temperature, and load on the system. I don't know the VW spec, but the typical range for a lead acid battery is 13.5-14.5 volts, and it'll start high when the battery is discharged and slowly come down as the battery reaches full charge.
 
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