GTB1756VK boost on 1.9TDI

brum

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Can someone share what is the expected boost on GTB1756VK on 1.9TDI engine in the low RPM range?


I've seen one example in another topic with almost 2 bar boost (3 bar absolute) at 2000RPM, but having experience with some smaller (but vnt1, not vnt3) turbos I would consider that as pretty optimistic. However there is always hope that vnt3 turbos are fast spooling.

Logs are welcome :) . Just specify the hardware mods also so some conclusions can be made.


Also is there a compressor map for this turbo? I am curious about the surge line for the GTB1756VK.
 

TheoSweden

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2,0 bar at 2000rpm is no problem with this turbo in higher gears, but the question is how fast it spools not how early. Much is in the tune and the adjustment of the turbo.

Its a realy good turbo if you read som of what has been written here.
 

brum

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I've read a lot, but kind of doubt it :) . That is why I'm asking about some logs of real cars. It is somehow strange how VNT upgrade only can result in such big compressor spooling so quickly.

I'm right now rebuilding an engine and this is the turbo I'll be using. The engine is 1.9TDI 110hp stock, bored to 81mm (with 2.0TDI pistons), 11mm VAG pump, .240mm nozzles, 260 degree camshaft with 9.9 lift, large FMIC and 63mm exhaust. For the turbo I'll be building short runner manifold as this is a daily driver and I'm looking more for quicker spool, not for high RPM range performance. I'll post my results after a month of engine break-in and optimizing the software for the new hardware. But I'm curious and I'm trying to get some info in advance :) .
 

mk1-83

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drop that pp764 II go with DSS ultime II ore check darkside sit fore the hflox nozzels
 

brum

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The question is not about the fuel system, but about the turbo.

Either way - I'm not going to upgrade neither the nozzles, nor the pump at this time. The current setup should be enough for more than 200bhp and I'm looking for ~200bhp :) . I prefer smoke free tune instead of maximizing the turbo potential.
 

dieseleux

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GTB1756VK is best compromise between spool and power.
VNT17VC Is best spool for power.
GTB2056VL is best power for spool!
All turbo run fine and possible to tune smoke free without any trouble, O2 sensor are best tooling for your tune.
My last comment is on experience on ALH setup, is good reference how fuel/turbo feed the engine, turbo run reach 2bar at 2500rpm, this tune are do for low EMP.



Dieseleux
 

brum

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Agree on the O2 sensor. I'm actually using such.

What do you mean by:
...
GTB2056VL is best power for spool!...

For the EMP - also agree. High EMP leads to low VE and this is not something I'm looking at. The small GTB is a step in that direction as it should provide lower EMP compared to the VNT17/VNT20 hybrid. I suppose the right way to adjust the tradeoff between EMP and spool up is to adjust the stop screw. I'm thinking about getting some feedback from the MAP for the VE with different stop screw adjustments.

It seems you have some experience with that turbo. Do you have some logs about the boost produced by that turbo in the low RPM range, like 1800RPM? One of my concerns (the biggest one) is lag. I suppose I would not be getting massive torque at the low RPM range in order to keep the DMF (240mm one), but still I want to compare the small GTB to the VNT17/VNT20 hybrid in terms of boost (and possible torque) in the low RPM range. I'm just curious what other have observed with that turbo.
 

dieseleux

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On VNT15, is very easy to get +45psi on EMP gauge for 18psi max chip, when i tune GTB1756VK, most time i under 1.5x intake pressure easily and few second later EMP drop between 0.8x to 1.1x intake pressure.
The owner of GTB1756VK are more concerne by about longevity than spool.
With more agressive setting is possible to have a good spool in 2000rpm zone.
My GTB2056VL have good reaction without any surge: 1500rpm=10psi Add +5psi per 500rpm



Dieseleux
 

JFettig

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dieseleux: your 5psi per 500rpm puts 30psi out to 3000rpm, I'm assuming this is not correct? At what RPM have you been able to get 30psi out of your GTB2056VL?
 

TheoSweden

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Well I have been able to make well over 1,5 bar at 2000rpm and 2,0bar not long after that with my GT2260V. That is not the problem with these turbos in this thread, the trick is to spool it fast witout surge. Surge is the limitation I would say.
 
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dieseleux

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This 5psi per 500rpm after 1500rpm is for follow the surge line on compressor map, this is the setting i put in my chip, GTB2056VL are capable to do higher pressure at lower rpm easily.
This turbo on 1.9TDI are capable to do 37psi at 3500rpm and 30psi at 4500rpm.
I see few dyno sheet and many spool at aprox 2500rpm.



Dieseleux
 

brum

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Is this for the GTB1756VK? Or for the GTB2056VK? I asked above about the compressor map for the small one :) .

The GTB2260VK is able to do around 2.2 boost at 2500RPM without surging. This is with proper AFR even on stock exhaust manifold. And it was able to produce a bit more than 1 bar boost at 2000RPM. This 2.2 bar boost at 2500RPM without surge should mean that the surge line for the smaller is even better.

So it seems that it can deliver plenty of boost. But than what is the spool time? Anybody have a short log showing the response in low RPM range, like cruising at 1800RPM in high gear and going WOT suddenly?
 

Rub87

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2056vk on 2.0l 16v pd drives like stock down low, only after 2500rpm its double as fun =)
 

brum

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Then the GTB1756 should be almost as stock. Probably even better when combined with better camshaft :) .
 

chriskorwan

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i just finished installing my gtb1756vk a day or 2 ago on my BEW and did a log this afternoon. i was on moderate throttle until around 16-1700 rpm when i went all out. i think it feels like stock until after 2k and doesn't quit. fuel is seems to be my limiting factor as of now. well here is my log
 

dieseleux

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I suppose the GTB1756VK spool a little bit faster without piping....




Intake weld with intercooler water to air!
Aprox 15" of pipe only between turbo and intercooler.



Dieseleux
 

dieseleux

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yes...:eek::D

I rebuilt 4-1 exhaust manifold today.
This is for my GTB1756VK on my ALH engine.


Picture of intake manifold... i have 0 hour on aluminium welding experience.
http://www.dieseleux.torquedelight....t and GTB1756VK/Intake Intercooler Air Water/

Picture of exhaust manifold, i buy i one piece, external weld are all good, internal is nightmare, each cut on part pipe have some metal burr, need to be cleaned.
http://www.dieseleux.torquedelight.com/ALH engine rebuilt and GTB1756VK/Manifold 4-1/




Dieseleux
 

brum

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Nice idea. But does this fit under the hood :) ?

About the lag - is it noticeable?
 

dieseleux

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Nice idea. But does this fit under the hood :) ?

About the lag - is it noticeable?
Under hood on mk4 is between 2 and 3 inch over the flange of original intake manifold.
My custom intake intercooler have 1 3/4 inch over original intake.
See 2 picture with 12" rules, one is PD150 intake with quick snap engine cover, is good reference.




Dieseleux
 

TheoSweden

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Realy nice work Dieseleux! How big radiator are you planning to use and what/how big pump for it?

Intresting to hear about lag and IATs later!!

Sorry for OT

Theo
 
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