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group buy: powertdi.pl injectors (.260s)

JordanTr

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2022
Location
Kimberley, BC
TDI
1996 B4V x3, 2006 Dmax, 2005 Allroad, 2005 BHW
@J_dude @CanadianALH, maybe we can bundle up and do a Canadian shipping order together. I’m not keen to pay duties to get it to the USA and then duties to Canada as well.
 

CanadianALH

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd 2006 Jetta DSG (wifes)
@J_dude @CanadianALH, maybe we can bundle up and do a Canadian shipping order together. I’m not keen to pay duties to get it to the USA and then duties to Canada as well.
Maybe. I’d like to. Just depends what the cost in the end is. I’m a student right now so injectors aren’t really in the budget. If I could get them to my door for around $500 I may be in.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
Fair enough, for my baby step, I wanted a step that I could leave otherwise stock for now. I know it may not be the wisest decision, but it is mine for now. I will deal with it down the road haha. All I read said that .20̷5s are fine untuned to start so I am rolling with it for now.

Also, just for the record I am not remotely disagreeing, I think you are %10̷0̷ right, and totally see the reasons, and even have been somewhat regretful since I bought them hahaha. But I west the way I went.
You won’t be disappointed. Donna’s car has .205’s with a mild RC tune. It runs and starts very well while getting low to mid 50’s mpg. Same as you I just wanted a little more power for getting on the highway or occasional passing.
Could it be done more efficiently with larger injectors? Apparently so, but if that’s all you want, you’ll be happy
 

CanadianALH

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd 2006 Jetta DSG (wifes)
Maybe. I’d like to. Just depends what the cost in the end is. I’m a student right now so injectors aren’t really in the budget. If I could get them to my door for around $500 I may be in.
I’m honestly in for the right price. If we can get a few Canucks and a good price.
 

The Cream Dolphin

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Location
Fernie, B.C. originally Dwight, ON
TDI
02 VW Golf TDI ALH 245k
@J_dude @CanadianALH, maybe we can bundle up and do a Canadian shipping order together. I’m not keen to pay duties to get it to the USA and then duties to Canada as well.
Sorry guys, wish I got in on this too. Never thought to put it out there.
You won’t be disappointed. Donna’s car has .205’s with a mild RC tune. It runs and starts very well while getting low to mid 50’s mpg. Same as you I just wanted a little more power for getting on the highway or occasional passing.
Could it be done more efficiently with larger injectors? Apparently so, but if that’s all you want, you’ll be happy
Awesome, great to hear, and I can hardly wait.
 

GlowBugTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). 01 original Glow Bug TDI (sold)
Return the .205’s and give into peer pressure lol
I agree. Rather then 1-2yrs down the road upgrading again. Spend the money now and be happy about it later. Unless you'll be truly happy with a lil bump in power (205's alone are a little over stock but it's nothing impressive). I liked them for the week that I drove the car with just those, but 5yrs down the road on a tune as well and I wouldn't mind more. Someday I'll go for the burpod deluxe tune and setup. Waiting for that perfect ALH wagon at that perfect price😉
 

CanadianALH

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd 2006 Jetta DSG (wifes)
I agree. Rather then 1-2yrs down the road upgrading again. Spend the money now and be happy about it later. Unless you'll be truly happy with a lil bump in power (205's alone are a little over stock but it's nothing impressive). I liked them for the week that I drove the car with just those, but 5yrs down the road on a tune as well and I wouldn't mind more. Someday I'll go for the burpod deluxe tune and setup. Waiting for that perfect ALH wagon at that perfect price😉
I’m a tune and cat delete into car that I am keeping stock. Along with a shopping list for 0.260’s, gt1856v, BRM intake, ACT clutch and a 11mm. I have a problem… this forum enables my crippling addiction for modifying cars.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
i'm not the one to be talking to about keeping things tame either 😅 apologies for being an enabler lol. although i'm really an efficiency nut. i wouldn't be doing any of the power mods i do unless i can keep my mpg and/or get even better if i just drive it normally :)
 

The Cream Dolphin

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Location
Fernie, B.C. originally Dwight, ON
TDI
02 VW Golf TDI ALH 245k
i'm not the one to be talking to about keeping things tame either 😅 apologies for being an enabler lol. although i'm really an efficiency nut. i wouldn't be doing any of the power mods i do unless i can keep my mpg and/or get even better if i just drive it normally :)
What are your thoughts on .20̷5s on stock, will efficiency remain similar? I understand there is about a 10̷hp bump.
 

ccorn90

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2023
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
'03 Jetta ALH, '00 Golf ALH
What are your thoughts on .20̷5s on stock, will efficiency remain similar? I understand there is about a 10̷hp bump.
In talking with burpod I've gotten the sense that his philosophy on MPGs is a little different than other folks. The "quick" formula that I've seen for upsizing nozzles is to put them in, then adjust the adaptation and pump so that the system fuels correctly despite the ECU not "knowing" the amount of fuel that's actually making it into the cylinder. His attempt with my tune has been to keep it as aligned as possible – if the ECU thinks it's injecting 50mg of fuel, then 50mg really is making it into the cylinder. Then there's less IQ adaptation needed for smoke control, etc... it follows the code, and you set the code correctly, it is going to work correctly.

If you scroll back, you'll see burpod's note about larger nozzles allowing quicker injection for any given amount of fuel. This was the critical change in my thinking -- going up in nozzle size doesn't ALWAYS mean more fuel. Injection duration and timing will affect efficiency. So my guess is that with appropriate computer adjustments, your injectors can give you the same performance (EDIT: in terms of efficiency or zip) as stock, or better than stock (or worse than stock if you want it). I've seen a significant difference just from timing/boost/fuel map changes, and my car is running 0.158 nozzles.

The other thing I've heard that I've found convincing is that new nozzles and newly set-up injectors will perform more efficiently because atomization is better and the assembly is less worn. Everything else being equal, this seems to make sense as well. So given that you have a new set of .205 nozzles, seems like the best thing would be to take the $300 or so that you might spend on .260's and put it into some computer mods to do the best with what you have.

Others should feel free to correct or amend if my understanding is off on this!
 

J_dude

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
I’m a tune and cat delete into car that I am keeping stock. Along with a shopping list for 0.260’s, gt1856v, BRM intake, ACT clutch and a 11mm. I have a problem… this forum enables my crippling addiction for modifying cars.
It really is an addiction 😂
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
In talking with burpod I've gotten the sense that his philosophy on MPGs is a little different than other folks. The "quick" formula that I've seen for upsizing nozzles is to put them in, then adjust the adaptation and pump so that the system fuels correctly despite the ECU not "knowing" the amount of fuel that's actually making it into the cylinder. His attempt with my tune has been to keep it as aligned as possible – if the ECU thinks it's injecting 50mg of fuel, then 50mg really is making it into the cylinder. Then there's less IQ adaptation needed for smoke control, etc... it follows the code, and you set the code correctly, it is going to work correctly.
that is partially correct. the problem with doing that (just hammer mod / IQ adaptation) is the "shape" of the duration map isn't going to be the same for 10mm/.185s vs 10mm/.230s or whatever nozzle, and same with 11mm. "shape" of the 11mm/.185s map is not the same as 10mm/.185s. so that's mapping RPM x IQ to a duration (pump voltage). not that i claim to know how to make a 100% accurate pump map for everything (can only be done in a lab) but with time, understanding, testing, and testing a LOT.. i believe one can get a pretty good approximation. with all the varying pressures and hydraulics and flow going on, it stands to reason that the above would be true. how much fuel is flowing, pump size + operating pressure (which isn't constant across the rpm band), etc.. there's simply no way you can use a 10mm/.185 pump map for some other pump/nozzle combination and subtract out a flat amount of duration and expect it to work the same. if you want to try and approximate real IQ values, you can't just change the IQ axis points to reflect that, because of all this non-linearity going on.. oi, brain hurts! lol. there are people who know a hell of a lot more about this than i do... i just do my best with what i've come to learn (and continue to understand better).... if any pump/nozzle/flow experts would chime in.... :)

an example, something which i should put in my "super thread" would be to take a 10mm/.185 pump map and a 11mm/.158 pump map, and "hammer mod" it in the software - which is the same as adding/subtracting volts to the pump map. you do that so they both normalize to 4mg @ 900rpm idle, and they will be different. these happen to be fairly similar however. if you do the basic easy flow math, .185s are roughly 35% more surface area.. an 11mm pump puts out roughly ~28% more fuel from what i've read
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
powertdi.pl (@cobreti ) will have .260s back in stock 2-3 weeks and i plan on ordering a couple sets + a big turbo, maybe an 11mm pump to have on the shelf :) i know of a few people who want .260s so i figure get a group buy going and could save a whole bunch on shipping + maybe a bulk discount i hope :) if anyone's interested let me know. i don't have the capital for such a large order so would need to be paid ahead of time. .260s are a great size nozzle tuned right, excellent efficiency, doesn't matter if you have a little vnt15 or big honky :) i plan to have them setup for 240/320 pop pressures if he will accommodate that.
I know I love my .260's. Guthrie got me set on them, so both DSOL and DSEL have .260 Wuzetem's on them. Definitely like how it feels compared to .230's, and I can still see about 42mpg in hilly terrain.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
the conversation about pump maps etc can continue, but probably should be focused elsewhere than in this thread :) although i'm guilty of it myself.. lol. one can look here quickly to see what i was talking about with the above as regarding fueling accuracy for different pumps/nozzles and hammer-mod/iq-adaptation:

link HERE
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
Maybe. I’d like to. Just depends what the cost in the end is. I’m a student right now so injectors aren’t really in the budget. If I could get them to my door for around $500 I may be in.
Oh yeah - I think that's entirely do-able. It was a couple years back, but when I ordered from powertdi directly (eBay) a couple years back, I think it was ~$400 all said and done.
(Oh wait - but that was the junior-sized .216 nozzles w/ injectors; .260 will probably come in around $600CAD.)
 

CanadianALH

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd 2006 Jetta DSG (wifes)
Oh yeah - I think that's entirely do-able. It was a couple years back, but when I ordered from powertdi directly (eBay) a couple years back, I think it was ~$400 all said and done.
(Oh wait - but that was the junior-sized .216 nozzles w/ injectors; .260 will probably come in around $600CAD.)
Would you be interested in being apart of the Canadian buy?
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
updated with tentative pricing. closing date would be when he officially gets them back in stock, hopefully ~2 weeks :)
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
Do we pay Burpod or PowerTDI?
What about the warranty?
Will PowerTDI know who the end user is?
I'm still in, just questions is all...
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
you would pay me - ideally friends and family, else the savings would be eaten up by paypal fees and you would have to add some % on top of that because i would get hit with taxes come tax season (not sure exactly how much that would be but surely more than the savings, at that point might as well buy direct) ... anyone who knows me (been here almost 20yrs) will vouch that i'm 100% stand-up and honest. people can pay me anytime, i will keep the $$ in my paypal just in the .000001% case the deal goes awry. i'm essentially not taking in anything from this other than a couple bucks to cover a little bit of the time i spend to organize/ship it all.

just waiting to get a final price on the .260s. iirc they were 300euro last time they were on the site. .230s are 280, .290s are 330, so i'm guessing .260s will be 300.

i have talked with powertdi about the warranty and it's not a problem. i will provide him with the full list of people who bought the goods with date shipped so there is documentation of who bought what when :)
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
Maybe not my place to say, but if you don't feel comfortable sending @burpod the funds via the no-fees Friends&Family, I'd say this group buy isn't for you.
Either you trust someone or you don't. If you do - you have no issues.
If you don't, that's fair, and you can just go place your order on the web or eBay.

On a $/hr basis, Burpod is probably going to net a tiny fraction of minimum wage by the time this is done; so I'd encourage people to tip the man for his efforts as well.
 

dieseldonato

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Location
Us
TDI
2001 jetta
Maybe not my place to say, but if you don't feel comfortable sending @burpod the funds via the no-fees Friends&Family, I'd say this group buy isn't for you.
Either you trust someone or you don't. If you do - you have no issues.
If you don't, that's fair, and you can just go place your order on the web or eBay.

On a $/hr basis, Burpod is probably going to net a tiny fraction of minimum wage by the time this is done; so I'd encourage people to tip the man for his efforts as well.
X2 @burpod has an outstanding character. If i had the spare funds I'd be partaking myself.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
if anyone in canada wants to get in on this, i believe it could be worked out - just PM me. trying to keep it simple with .260s only, but .230s OK too i suppose, if one insists on wee nozzles :p
 
Last edited:

CanadianALH

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2023
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 5spd 2006 Jetta DSG (wifes)
if anyone in canada wants to get in on this, i believe it could be worked out - just PM me. trying to keep it simple with .260s only, but .230s OK too i suppose, if one insists on wee nozzles :p
I am in! Great deal for any Canadians wanting to gain power and fuel economy.
 
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