Goodbye TDI, Good Riddance VW, Hello Toyota Yaris SE

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NYC-TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Location
NYC
TDI
TDI Free and Loving It
I finally made the decision to get rid of my 2010 Golf after almost 4 years of ownership. I just couldn't take the chance of any more problems. Although there were things I appreciated about the car, overall I would say I was highly disappointed with it. I need RELIABLE transportation and Toyota is it.

I was very enthusiastic when I first purchased the Golf. I had never owned a diesel or a VW before but knew many people who had over the years, including relatives in Europe. I was always amazed by tales of great MPG and long life. I am also a diesel mechanic by trade and know the advantages of diesel engines so when the time came to buy a new car the TDI was the only car I considered. I bought the car with the intention of owning it for LIFE. Hell I know guys who had over 500,000 miles on 80's vintage Rabbits. Needless to say things didn't work out that way.

I had problems from DAY ONE. The car was delivered with a missing interior trim piece. Big deal, right? That's what I thought but in retrospect I should have taken it as a sign. That little piece of defroster trim took 4 months to get. During those 4 months my radio made a daily decision as to whether or not it was going to work that day, but of course it always worked when it was at the dealer. It took 5 months to get the radio replaced. Yes it was under warranty but it was still an annoyance. Also during this time I started to notice an annoying clicking coming from the windows, which I came to find out is the known "ticking window" issue on these cars due to thermal expansion of the exterior trim, but not before my dealer decided it was a maladjusted striker plate, decided to "fix" it without my OK, and then proceeded to charge me because "it wasn't a warranty issue". He screwed up that door so bad I finally had to rehang it myself. The windows were still ticking as I drove it to the Toyota dealer to trade it in.

First winter I had a few hard starts, a couple of incidents of the car sputtering and dying on me. Thanks to TDIClub I found out about the frozen intercooler problem, even got a copy of the actual TSB VW had for this issue. Turns out that was not enough for the dealer. "Car is running fine, no problem found" according to them. Gee even VW corporate was able to issue the car a clean bill of health over the phone. DENIED. Fast forward to the next winter, more hard starts, and finally a locked up solid hydrolocking. VW dealer, second VW dealer and VW corporate all agreed there was nothing wrong with the car. TSB fixed DENIED. I finally, FINALLY got the new intercooler installed in the spring of 2013! THIS WAS OVER 2 YEARS FROM WHEN I STARTED HAVING PROBLEMS, well after VW knew that this was a MAJOR design problem with these cars. I can not count the number of hours I spent arguing with VW and the dealer over this issue. All the time they were denying there was a problem which their own technical people had already indentified! This one issue, and the way VW dealt with it, more than anything else, is what has soured me on VW. I will never own another Volkswagen.

A short aside concerning the new intercooler that was supposed to fix the issue. IT DOESN'T. It improves it, yes, but I was still having hard starts and sputtering/surging issues at idle this past winter. Also I noticed a decrease in MPG since it was installed, one of the main reasons I bought the car in the first place was being negatively impacted. Good job VW. Oh and I forgot to mention the atrocious job the dealer did installing it. Well they did get it right the second time.

I will just touch on a couple of other issues:

Window regulators that don't know the difference between up and down. Yes you read that right. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Hey we all have our off days.

Interior lights that really, really wish they were at a disco. "Hey let's rapidly switch back and forth at varying intensities." "No let's just shut off completely."

ESP ERROR alarms that show up every now and then. (Yes I read that whole thread. No it is not the battery but it is something electrical.)

"DING-DING" alarms that sound at random, sometimes even constantly while driving down the road. Perhaps VW considers this a safety feature as you will never fall asleep while driving.

Random stalls at stop lights.

Now to be fair not all of these issues presented themselves at all times, some showed up for a while and then never returned, but they all made their presence felt at one time or another. It was the randomness of it that was truly frustrating.

I also found the fit and finish and quality of materials to be subpar. My seats were fraying, my SEAT BELTS were fraying and the paint was horrible. If I wanted to spend all my time fixing paint chips or buffing out scratches I would have opened up a body shop. Just really low quality paint. For those who think I am being too harsh, I am using a 1987 Plymouth Reliant and a 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan as my frame of reference. I purchased both new, subjected then to the same environment, driving conditions, etc. and yet 10 or more years later both of them were in better shape cosmetically than my Golf was after less than 4 years.

There were things I liked about the car. I loved the road feel and handling, loved that diesel torque. The MPG was good, certainly better than a gasser, but it was not GREAT, and with the price spread between gas and diesel widening the economic case for it was getting weaker and weaker. Factor in the significantly higher maintenance costs and it's a wash.

I just never could bond with the car. Every time I was on the verge of falling in love it seemed to throw another fit. Reminded me of an ex-girlfriend (notice I said EX), fun to ride but when she was in a bad mood...WATCH OUT! Given the many other known issues with these cars that have been well documented here I figured it was time to cut my losses, the Golf had to go. Now my mind is clear of worries about HPFP, DPF, EGR, turbo, timing belt, and God knows what else. I never actually had any of those problems but with the car's track record I didn't want to take any more chances. Car was actually behaving itself for the last couple of months so at least we did break up on good terms. Oh and by the way these cars are not holding their value like the TDI's of old. I shopped this car around at several dealers and "We Buy Cars" places and the best offer I could get was $13,000. This is for a less than 4 year old car with less than 40,000 miles. Seems the CR TDI's reputation is well known in the industry. I eventually took a lower trade-in offer because it worked to my advantage when considering new car price and sales tax calculations. There was no way I was going to sell this car privately. I would be worried the new owner would come after me if it started a new round of fit throwing.

I have replaced it with a 2014 Toyota Yaris SE. I wanted a small hatchback, not exactly a major market segment here in America, but I live in NYC and the hatch is a perfect fit. Given what was available in this class I felt the Yaris was my best bet. There were too many negatives for me with some of the other competitors. The Honda Fit was a close second but I just liked the Yaris better overall. Throw in Toyota's legendary reliability and the decision was made. The Yaris is one of the mechanically simplest cars out there. Its engine and transmission and many of its mechanical and suspension components have been in production for almost 2 decades. It has stood the test of time, and is consistently ranked as one of Toyota's most reliable models. After VW this fact had strong appeal to me.

I have owned it for a little over a month now and find that in many ways it compares quite favorably with the Golf. Although smaller outside the interior is as large, plenty of room up front and my regular back seat passengers tell me it's "just as good" back there as well. There is enough space in the hatch for the stuff I regularly carry too. It is just as maneuverable as the Golf in the city but of course it does fall behind on the highway. Still there is enough power to keep up with traffic, I've never felt in danger, just plan your passing maneuvers carefully. Handling is surprisingly quite good but road feel / ride comfort is not up to VW standards. Yes the interior is all hard plastics, and no I don't have heated seats anymore but so what, these things just aren't that important to me. The audio system on the Yaris is superior to the RCD-510 I had on my Golf, both in terms of sound quality and functionality. The Bluetooth actually works. Fuel economy is lower though, I'm averaging 32 MPG right now but it is a new engine and I've been driving it hard to break it in. I expect to pick up 1 or 2 MPG once it is fully broken in and I tone down my driving style. For comparison I averaged just over 38 MPG lifetime on my Golf. Given the lower price of gasoline, fuel costs should work out to be only very, very slightly higher. I do wish it had a bigger tank however. Maintenance costs figure to be very low, as they basically consist of an oil change every 5,000 miles. So far, so good, fingers crossed but I am expecting good things from the Yaris.

I would like to thank my fellow TDIClub members for making this site such a wonderful resource. All that combined knowledge helped me while I owned the car and ironically helped me make the decision to get rid of it. I wish you all many more miles of happy TDI ownership but for me that door is closed. I will still be checking in here every once in a while. Even though I will never own another VW I'm interested to see how the next gen Golf works out. Also I can now take perverse pleasure in reading the myriad VW horror stories and secretly laughing. (JOKE)

Oh, and if anybody from VW happens to be reading this and doesn't want to see any more posts like this here's what you have to do:

FIRST, and foremost, properly design cars for the environment in which they will operate. Then TEST, TEST and TEST again. Don't release half baked products into the wild.

SECOND, when you screw up ADMIT IT and FIX IT.

THIRD, get your dealer service network in order. The level of incompetence I witnessed there was staggering. The level and rigor of training for service personnel must be drastically improved.

FOURTH, and finally, common courtesy goes a long way. Rude behavior by service personnel and corporate "customer care advocates" is remembered long after the issue that prompted the exchange is resolved. I don't want to be talked down to by technicians whose demonstrated abilities were often well below my own or by corporate representatives reading from a script. The customer may not always be right, but he is still YOUR customer. I am now TOYOTA'S customer. I won't be back.
 

rickcrna1

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Location
Vancouver, WA
TDI
2010 JSW
I detected no sour grapes. In fact my experiences with a 2010 JSW TDI mirror much of what was said by the OP. Intercooler issues along with MAF and O2 sensor repairs were the main problems. After awhile, I too, questioned the reliability of the vehicle. In addition, every time I had VW check on a CEL on the display, it seemed to cost me a few hundred dollars and lots of time.

The repair costs were eclipsing any savings I was getting from the enhanced mileage from the TDI engine.

Happily, I traded my vehicle in for a 2013 Toyota Tacoma and so far, love it. I seriously doubt I could ever go back to owning another VW product. I have owned in the past the VW beetle (long ago) and a 2000 VW Jetta TDI (a very reliable car) but the current products do not seem to measure up.

I agree with the OP that this forum has been and continues to be a fantastic source of information and good people.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Agreed. After 22k of absolutely perfect performance, everything works fine, 43 MPG in mixed driving, my Golf is here to stay. Sorry you had a bad experience. Sounds like your dealer is as much to blame as the car.
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
Agreed. After 22k of absolutely perfect performance, everything works fine, 43 MPG in mixed driving, my Golf is here to stay. Sorry you had a bad experience. Sounds like your dealer is as much to blame as the car.
I'm in the same boat as you... The worst issue I've experienced so far is one hard start this past winter. I think I'll pick up the winter front while it's still in stock at idparts in the coming months.

I really think that there are lemons out there and that some folks really draw the short straw. Seems the op got a pretty bad one too considering all the electrical gremlins he had...
 

aja8888

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Gosh, not another one.... :rolleyes:
These sour grapes threads get old, they really do.
Yes, they do get old, but the fact remains that there are a lot of them since the CR's hit the streets, notwithstanding the historical and continuing message of poor customer service and treatment by VW.
 

DieselRacer

banned
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Location
AZ-NV
TDI
BMW Advanced Diesel...2011 BMW 335d
Gosh, not another one.... :rolleyes:

These sour grapes threads get old, they really do.
This is the place to post if you feel this way...I got rid of my VW and will never own another, love the engine, hate the car...:(
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Yes, they do get old, but the fact remains that there are a lot of them since the CR's hit the streets, notwithstanding the historical and continuing message of poor customer service and treatment by VW.
I disagree with this. Consider that VW is probably selling 20x as many TDIs now as in 2000 when ALHs started to arrive in quantity, the number of complaints is not that high. My colleague just bought an '10 JSW with 150K on it. The car looks, sounds, and drives like it has 50K on it, not 150. No major problems we've identified. And the owner traded it for another common rail.

Happy customers tend to be quiet. Unhappy ones make a lot of noise.
 

k1xv

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Location
southern Vermont
TDI
09 TDI sedan, sold back 12/16. Present cars 2013 BMW X5 diesel, 2015 Corvette convertible
Lexus should be telling these stories instead of telling people that it is hard to find a diesel pump for refueling.

I am at 45K miles, and so far, have not had a single problem with my Mexican Jetta. Tires, scheduled maintenance, and recalls has been it. Those electrical problems sound to me like grounding issues, if I were to guess.
 

ticketed2much

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Location
Lehigh Valley
TDI
2010 JSW
I disagree with this. Consider that VW is probably selling 20x as many TDIs now as in 2000 when ALHs started to arrive in quantity, the number of complaints is not that high. My colleague just bought an '10 JSW with 150K on it. The car looks, sounds, and drives like it has 50K on it, not 150. No major problems we've identified. And the owner traded it for another common rail.

Happy customers tend to be quiet. Unhappy ones make a lot of noise.

I agree with this. The number of new TDIs is huge compared to the 2000-2006 range, and the emissions regulations have made the engines more complex. I even hear diehard diesel truck guys swearing off the new engines, so its not only VWs, and VWs have never been known for reliability.
 

TNriverjet

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Location
Mid TN
TDI
2013 JSW TDI 6MT
As with most things, your personal ability to tolerate and overcome challenges will have a huge impact on your ultimate satisfaction with any product. No product is perfect. Even the ultra expensive cars have issues. The fact is, if you like the TDI concept enough you will stick with it... You could've traded for a Passat, and still been getting great mileage

I admit, I'm a bit surprised by the OP's stance since he states he is a diesel mechanic by trade.

So, here is my formula:

quality issues + bad dealer experience + low tolerance for this stuff = YARIS

Some can tolerate one or two of these inconveniences... Sorry these issues drove you to a Yaris. I hope you enjoy!
 

TDI smile

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Location
Edmonton, Alberta (b4 BC - LOWER MAINLAND = Chilli
TDI
2002 TDI (ALH) with 513,000 km. First Owner and very happy... No Problems, never left us stranded on the Highway. Average useage is about between under 4 ltr. and 5 ltr. Normal longdistance travel: 4.1/100
Some people have a hard time with any car from the first Day on. I owned over 40 cars in my life and 23 were VW's. Not 1 car gave me a Headache or left me stranded on the side of the road. Picked some cars up at Houston Harbour and drove straight through to Fort Bliss, with an Oilchange at VW in Austin. No sweat. I hope, that the poster does not work for Toyota!?
 

gulfcoastguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
MS Gulfcoast
TDI
TDI sold, Mazda 3 purchased
I have to admit that a TDI is a bad fit for New York City, unless NYC stands for some other location. Hopefully the OP enjoys his Yaris.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
2010 GOLF True Cost to Own ®$8,390 $7,359 $6,956 $7,310 $6,591 $36,606
2010 YARIS True Cost to Own ®$6,636 $5,646 $5,371 $5,795 $5,491 $28,939

The Yaris will cost less in fuel and about 40% cheaper repairs, too.
 

thathubcapguy

Member
Joined
May 11, 2014
Location
beverly MA
TDI
2014 sportwagen DSG
funny i traded in the worst car i ever owned for my 14 JSW after reading many positive reviews. but my situation was similar actually, i was a ford guy. i had a 94 explorer, 2000 taurus, 2006 fusion SE V6 (the best car i ever owned) and a 2012 fusion SEL V6 (the worst!) that car was a genuine lemon from day one just weird issues along with known ones. a roof rattle that as never fixed, a garbage transmission that ford denied a problem with and an intermittent problem stalling on left turns. the car had a 60k powertrain warranty and i dumped it at 55k. i usually keep my cars 5-6 years and 150k or so. the reason i did not buy another ford was mainly the customer service or lack of it i got with the issues i had. i am by profession a service advisor i know the game very very well. i am aware cars can be junk out of the factory, prime example the customers 2013 sonata we have replaced 2 engines and a transmission in. the car has 6k on it!
but i do love my little jetta!
 

pknopp

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Location
WV
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
I never understood why people stick around boards when they don't even own a relevant car any longer.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
2010 GOLF True Cost to Own ®$8,390 $7,359 $6,956 $7,310 $6,591 $36,606
2010 YARIS True Cost to Own ®$6,636 $5,646 $5,371 $5,795 $5,491 $28,939

The Yaris will cost less in fuel and about 40% cheaper repairs, too.
I would hope so. After all, you end up with a Yaris.
 

seth1065

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Location
NJ
TDI
2011 JSW with DSG, Panoroof, rear air bags and the always fun velcro blocks, Blue with beige int
I have NP with people sticking around and no issue with them stating why they left and the issue they had. It seems these cars are either good or a POS from an early age. I have had my issues but at almost 90,000 miles It stills is the right car for me. Sorry it did not work out for the OP good luck with the Yaris. he does have a point about dealerships and copy VW has to understand it takes a long time to change common perception about them.
 

frugality

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
TDI
none, 2016 GTI
Think how bored you're going to be now.
I would hope so. After all, you end up with a Yaris.
Couple-a good zingers in this thread. I was getting annoyed with this thread, but it's been redeemed. :)


Come to think of it.... If the enviro-militant folks were smart, they'd try to get us to all drive anemic cars, so that driving would be annoying, we'd drive less, and use less resources. Oh, wait, they have. That's how we got Priuses.
 
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DieselRacer

banned
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Location
AZ-NV
TDI
BMW Advanced Diesel...2011 BMW 335d
Didn't you have the 2010 Cup car? What soured you on it?
I loved the engine, the car became a rattle box, my front bumper clips broke and I had to almost buy a new one, the sunroof leaked the one time I had it in the rain, when I had my AC on high it was so loud you could not talk to the person next to you, and in AZ I use it a lot, the car looked awesome, I loved it when I got it, but with all the little things I let it go, now BMW is a little better but by no means great, with that said, I really like the Passat but for the price got a BMW for the same...
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
I loved the engine, the car became a rattle box, my front bumper clips broke and I had to almost buy a new one, the sunroof leaked the one time I had it in the rain, when I had my AC on high it was so loud you could not talk to the person next to you, and in AZ I use it a lot, the car looked awesome, I loved it when I got it, but with all the little things I let it go, now BMW is a little better but by no means great, with that said, I really like the Passat but for the price got a BMW for the same...
Having test driven a 335d I know just how nice they are all too well! Really is a fantastic car. Even the auto tranny is something I could live with! (which says alot because I never owned anything but manual transmissions). VERY few auto trannies impress me. Only other auto tranny that I like more is the DSG which was a very close buy for my current car :cool:
 
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