good power, bad fuel econ

[GotEuroCorrado]

so ive got 64k 5ps 2001 Golf Tdi GLS RC Euro 3 + Kerma PP520 + 11mm pump + k&n filter + cat + mufflerectomy Sachs stage 2 clutch with stage 3 pressure plate + g-60 flywheel +vr6 brakes + BBS RXII wheels + H&R Race springs + Bilstine shocks.

this car has never given me good fuel econ. most i seen highway is like 44 when car was stock, now i get bout 37-39... city its gets down to 32 when flogghing. i am constantly watching the way i drive to make smooth shifts and no dump the pedal.

ive done the following

~cleaned manifold
~advanced timing (just below top line in tdi timing graph)
~adjusted iq (bout 6)
~streight pipe exhuast (thought cat may be clogged)
~pp520 injector nozzels (though oem were bad)
~always 8oz of powerservice per fillup
~keep tires inflated to 40lb and run 16" wheels
~switched injection pump to 11mm from 10mm thinking pump may be bad, but i still get way low fuel econd even with 11mm pump.
~new trans fluid
~90% of fuel is from highway
~k&n filter
~no snow screen
~replaced brake lines
~fresh fuel filter
~fresh coolant temp sensor

car gives no codes, pulls real nice, turbo boosts 18or so lb. it does not eat oil. starts up on first crank as well, even in the dead of cold. neevr gave me any problems... except this one. it does smoke a bit more then it should. even before the 11mm pump.

i have a vnt 17 sittin in the garage and i really wana put it on but if i cant get this car to give me at least high 30's in the city i am going to take mods off and sell.

to give u guys an example. i just broke 1/2 tank and it was only 320miles... I AM VENTED!!!!!! about 100 of those miles are higway.

also i still have all my engine and underside covers.

 

[Nutsnbolts]

OK, so wait. You had what you believed to be problems with critical fuel system components, and replace them all with products that will definately increase your power, and thus your fuel consumption, and you are still getting 44 MPG on the highway, and 32 in the city when you are "flogging" it?

And you are complaining?

You're doing everything right as far as adjustments and tweaking, but consider this:
ULSD and the cold weather have brought my highway average down to about 46. You're 2 MPG away from a stock Jetta, and I'm sure that you could blow the doors off my car.

Having a diesel allows you to have your cake and eat it too. But how sweet does your cake have to get before you don't consider it bread?

-Rich

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

44 highway was before the 11mm pump right now i get about 39 highway, and thats being nice. if i flog it on the highway i get MAYBE 37...

im posting because ive been having this poor fuel econ issue since i bought the car and it was stock with 44k. the only mod that will decrease my fuel econ is the 11mm pump and it should not be by 10 mpg!!!!! the sticker says i should be getting 42 mpg City / 49 mpg Hwy!!!!

 

[mrchill]

What wheels do you have? Are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN your engine timing is perfect? That means a lot. I have seen them off a mile stock. Also, you say 90% of your miles are highway, then you say out of 320 miles, 100 were highway. Thats not 90%. Maybe its just that tank?

I have all the mods you have plus some more. I also have big wheels and heavy tires. My mileage suffered from the wheel\tire combo a bunch. Most of my mileage is city. I average 34-36 in the city. I average 40-44 highway, at 85+ mph. At lower speeds, I get 48.

Make CERTAIN all is set up perfect. Every little bit means something. If ever you are up my way, or I am down there, I'll be happy to check it out with you.

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

What wheels do you have? Are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN your engine timing is perfect? That means a lot. I have seen them off a mile stock. Also, you say 90% of your miles are highway, then you say out of 320 miles, 100 were highway. Thats not 90%. Maybe its just that tank?

I have all the mods you have plus some more. I also have big wheels and heavy tires. My mileage suffered from the wheel\tire combo a bunch. Most of my mileage is city. I average 34-36 in the city. I average 40-44 highway, at 85+ mph. At lower speeds, I get 48.

Make CERTAIN all is set up perfect. Every little bit means something. If ever you are up my way, or I am down there, I'll be happy to check it out with you.

#1 My wheels are bbs rx II's

#2 i said my fuel is 90% highway, as in i get most of my fuel from highway stations

#3 i WAS getting 44 on the highway now about 39. this the the BEST i can get with cruise at 70mph.

#4 yes my timing is good

 

[Nutsnbolts]

OK, here's a thought...

I've seen plugged intakes cost a tremendous amount in MPG, with no noticable reductions in power. I would pull the EGR and have a look at the thing to see if there's soot buildup in there. It's a good place to start. I know it's been done already, but maybe it's plugged again- I've seen cars with 22K on the clock plug intakes. You did say that the smoke was more than expected, so maybe the soot from that is getting in when the EGR opens. Also, see if you can have someone do a compression test on it- that would make a big difference in the ability of the fuel to contact the oxygen properly. As I said, you've done all the right things up to now, so this seems reasonable.

-Rich

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

intake is not clogged, car starts on first crack so i know it has good compression, and i know my intake is clean because when i cleaned it last jeff at rocketchip turned down the egr and ive also had a filter on it.

 

[oguzooz]

so ive got 64k 5ps 2001 Golf Tdi GLS RC Euro 3 + Kerma PP520 + 11mm pump + k&n filter + cat + mufflerectomy Sachs stage 2 clutch with stage 3 pressure plate + g-60 flywheel +vr6 brakes + BBS RXII wheels + H&R Race springs + Bilstine shocks.

this car has never given me good fuel econ. most i seen highway is like 44... city its gets down to 32 when flogghing. i am constantly watching the way i drive to make smooth shifts and no dump the pedal.

to give u guys an example. i just broke 1/2 tank and it was only 320miles... I AM VENTED!!!!!! about 100 of those miles are higway.

also i still have all my engine and underside covers.

hmmmmmmm... how fast did you say you drive. YOUR CAR WONT GET GOOD MILEAGE IF YOU PUSH IT. SIMPLE ENOUGH!

when you are on the highway what speeds are you at?
when you are in the city what speeds are you at?
When do you shift?
Are you ALWAYS looking for the higher gear?

give us some more info, because by the list of mods... i would think your driving is proformance related. IE nozzles, chip, IP, etc...


if you do sell your car... i'll buy your PP520s and maybe wheels. i'm pretty local. i pass though philly a few times a month

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

i do 70 on the highway, i shift between about 23-3000 rpm and usually drive in 5th at about 2000rpm. i seem to leave puffs of smoke if i accelorate or take turns from 2000 rpm so ive recently been driving in a lower year and keeping my rpms about 2300 to avoid leaving puffs of smoke when accelorating or taking turns.

 

[oguzooz]

to give you the other side of that.

i drive 50-60mph on the highway. shift between 1600 and 2200 (when warm). i drive at 1800-2200rpm. you are getting smoke due to your tuning. no biggy. i got smoke in my MKIII

the speed at which you drive you arnt going to get above 50mpg. unless you try.

it breaks down like this

50mph - 70mpg
60mph - 60mpg
70mph - 50mpg
80mph - 40mpg

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

to give you the other side of that.

i drive 50-60mph on the highway. shift between 1600 and 2200 (when warm). i drive at 1800-2200rpm. you are getting smoke due to your tuning. no biggy. i got smoke in my MKIII

the speed at which you drive you arnt going to get above 50mpg. unless you try.

it breaks down like this

50mph - 70mpg
60mph - 60mpg
70mph - 50mpg
80mph - 40mpg

right well i drive 70 mph and i dont even get 40mpg do you see the problem? plus shifting so low in the rpm range(1600) will not save you fuel econ, it will just cause strain on your motor. all your doing low in the rpms is giving it more fuel to accelorate because its not in its efficiency power band (about 1900+). so why not run the car at higher rpm and press the predal lesS?

 

[osesu96]

just throwing this out there but how about a brake dragging? That would certainly cost mileage.

Just a thought.

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

as i statd before i have already changed the brake lines, and there is no brake drag

 

[scythefwd]

I only get 51 mph at 60 mph. Moving 70 I get 45. You are seriously performance tuned. RC1 can improve your mileage if you dont use it. You will not see mileage improvements if you have a Euro RC3. It is not uncommon to see stock cars only getting 45 moving 70 (mine for example). Your mileage is excellant for that level of tuning. The K&N filter isn't doing you any good. Your turbo can and will pull all the air it needs through the stock filter. There used to be a sticky about how the oil in the pleats will mess up a maf. I cant find it now. What are your tank averages? I get travel about 140 miles a day. I would say that 130 of that is on the high way. My tank averages only hit 51 mpg when I drive 60 mph. I say your mileage is dead on for the way you are driving your car (cruise speed) plus the mods you have on it. Be glad you have a 14-15 second car that will eat a stock v6 mustang and still getting better mileage than a many "economy" cars.

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

ok, please stop telling me what i should get. the reason im posting here is because i know of other cars with the same tune that get WAY better fuel econ then i do. and rc software will increase your fuel econ over stock no matter what version you have. from what ive been told ( if i recall correctly) the rc software only begins to work when you are past 3/4 throttle so if u drive like a sane person you should be fine. i recently spoke with Jeff at RC and he agrees that i should be getting better fuel econ with my tune and i am looking to make an appointment this week.

 

[scythefwd]

are you ever getting to 3/4 throttle? I have seen no mention at all as to how you are getting to your 70mph on highway. How many people are you encountering that have the same setup you do and are getting better mileage? Are they driving different? Are those who are getting better fuel economy the rule or the exception? What are you basing your assumptions, fact, opinions, and compairisons on? There are so many variables that can contribute to poor mileage that it isn't funny. Assuming you are not using your RC3, driving only 70 mph, coasting in gear, accelerating under load (up hill not down), doing an italian tune up so your intake doesn't clog, then yes, you are getting poor mileage. I will bet that if you come down to VA though, we can compair driving styles. I am not one of those who consistantly get 60 mpg, but I can get 55 pretty much any time I want over a tank. Have you also considered that winterized fuel has a 1-3 mpg hit? Are you giving us your tank averages on winterized fuel over summer fuel? Have you checked to see if your temp sensor or your coolant glow plugs are function correctly. You will see a hit in mpg if your car isn't heating up as quickly as it could. I dont assume that you are driving like a maniac, but how long have you been modded over stock? It may feel like you are driving sane when you are actually driving harder than you could with stock and not realize it. What effects did each stage of tuning have on your mileage? Please give us all the info you have, driving condiditons (I drove up to the allegheney's <spelling??> and there is no way I could have had great mileage up there. What is the topology like where you are at? I dont know philly at all. Is a lot of your city driving stop and go? Again, I am not trying to bust your nads, but you haven't given us much info on the driving conditions you are in. They will affect mileage more than any other mod does. I hope I can help, but it is only a hope.

 

[scythefwd]

BTW, nice looking car. Look great, really. Not to be too anal, but the wider the tire, the more of a mpg hit you will take. Are those 16 X 7.5 or 16 X 8's? They look very wide over the stock tires. To me, the mileage it would be worth it (couldn't get the wife to agree to an "upgrade" that would hurt the mileage and cost money for no other reasons than cosmetic, I'd actually have to crack all my rims and then explain how the new alloy ones would be better than the cheaper stock ones).

EDIT: The blue car is the one I am talking about. Had a brain fart and saw the blue car and didn't look deeper and at the golf. Im not going to remove the comment because I still stand that it is a nice looking car

 

[DPM]

Why the puffs of smoke? Smoke= excess fuel...

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

of course i get to 3/4 throttle and i get over. if its a nice day i will take the car out and let her go full throttle and do some burnouts. i also watch my tanks very close. ive been vented for a long time and when the fuel light comes on i am about 530 miles. when i got the car stock it would not get more then 44mph on the hgihway when i got rc3 and pp520s i still could not get more then 44mpg. i live in the suburbs outside philly and its not at high elevation and there arnt exactly huge hill climbs. ive had this car for over a year so i know the differance in summer and winter fuels as well.

besides driving till the fuel light comes on i watch when it reaches the 1/2 mark on the guage. its always about 300-350 depending on the amount of highway i do. 300 is NOT half a tank. the 2nd 1/5 actually moves a lot faster then the first because of the shape of the tank not to mension the amount of fuel not registered because i am vented. also when i fill the tank i always fill it till i see the fuel in the neck.

o thanks, i loved that blue rado.

the wheels on the golf right now are bbsrxII's they are 16x7 i think but maybe 6.5

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

Why the puffs of smoke? Smoke= excess fuel...

wow... i never thought of that

 

[oguzooz]

wow... i never thought of that

where did you buy the car? was it sitting a lot? have you actually checked out your physical fuel tank... i know it doesnt seem likey but if your car was down south more... its possible you might have had something growning in your tank...

my dad has a 2000 freightliner (fl80) when he bought it 1/4 of a tank was in there. it was algaed (bought it from VA)

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

it was a pa/nj car. there is nothing growing in the tank. plus is there was i would see it in the fuel filter.

 

[scythefwd]

the 44 mpg is about what I get in VA on 95 doing 70. I actually get 45-46.. so it sounds about right to me. The burnouts can really kill mileage. I have heard some people that they get as low as 8 mpg going down a track. A single burnout can really affect your mpg calculations. To get as good as mileage as I do, I dont use more than 3/4 acceleration. You might want to lower your IQ, other than that I dont know what else to check. Thanks for answering my question. A real light foot might be able to improve your mileage, but with all the extra soot.... your intake wont be clear for long.

I agree though, the 300 should be around 1/3 tank.. but I am sometimes as low as 350 at half if I am going 75-80. Hope you figure this out.

 

[Keir_Asher]

it was a pa/nj car. there is nothing growing in the tank. plus is there was i would see it in the fuel filter.

I haven't seen anything previously stating the age of your fuel filter. When was the last time your replaced it? If older than a year, its worth replacing.

 

[DbLog]

With my RC3, pp520's, VNT15, 11mm pump, 01 golf gls. ELF 0w 30 etc...I get over 50mpg cruising 70. About 44 at 80+. So yes there is definetly something going on here. Maybe a faulty coolant temp. sensor? Maybe your fuel return line has a leakin? We pretty much have the same car other than your intake. EDIT: BTW this is in the summer. I know winters here are killing my milage. It takes a long time to get up to temp. Like others have said try replacing the fuel filter.

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

PLEASE READ OLD POSTINGS BEFORE ASSING YOUR THOUGHTS!!

guys i said this before more then once. I GET ABOUT 37MPG ON HIGHWAY!!! i got 44 when i was stock!!!.

the fuel filter gets replaced evver 10k, it was recently replaced about 1000 miles ago. i also park in my garage when i am at the shop so if i had any sort of diesel fuel leak i would see and smell it right away. i dont think its the coolant temp sensor because the car warms up just fine and i tink ive replaced it with the green one recenly.

also the power is real nice... it was bout 17degrees last night. accelorating at ful throttle in 2nd from 1800 rpm the tires break traction at about 2000-2200 rpm depending on road surface.

 

[Keir_Asher]

guys i said this before more then once. I GET ABOUT 37MPG ON HIGHWAY!!! i got 44 when i was stock!!!.

Are you filling up at the same station everytime? Maybe try a new place.
I am reaching here but maybe something wasn't put on write when installing the mods? Its possible to have bad results and no CELs.

Sorry, I don't have too much.

EDIT:
Not trying to insult your intelligence, just offering suggestions.
You insert the injector nozzle washers? Where the injectors new or used? I bought used injectors and sent them off to Greg to have them balanced and cleaned.

 

[GotEuroCorrado]

i installed all mods correctly, nothing that i have done would throw a cel, nozzels were new from kerma and yes they have washers.

 

[DbLog]

PLEASE READ OLD POSTINGS BEFORE ASSING YOUR THOUGHTS!!

Yeah I read the other postings if that was directed towards me. Not sure what 'assing' your thoughts means thought.

 

[scythefwd]

actually dblog, I think that was directed at me...

I have read your other posts and I stand by my comment. Your 44mpg hwy is normal from what I have seen for a stock car moving 70-80 mph. My car is stock and that is what I was compairing it to. Using the rc3 will kill you mileage as I have stated before. Breaking traction at 2k rpm in any gear is using your extra power if you can break free at 2k. If you are already broken free at that point, then it doesn't matter the rpm so much as you already have next to no traction. I cant get my stock car to break traction from a rolling start with the clutch fully engauged even if I try. If you were capable of doing that "stock" (as the car was when you bought it) then your car wasn't stock when you bought it. If I drove the car to the same capabilities as it had stock, and not use the extra power, I bet I could net 48 - 50 mpg over an 800 mile trip. If you ever want to test that, I am in VA. I would love to go to SC or NC for lunch and prove it for ya.

Oh yeah, I am a member of the 800 club... I might know how to drive for efficiency. (802.5 mi on 14.7 gallons of D2 during the summer = 54.5 mpg) I have been in multiple situations where I was postitive I could have done more... but I didnt know the area well enough to push the tank.

"of course i get to 3/4 throttle and i get over" you are using the extra power. Your mileage will only improve if you dont use the extra umpf that the chip provides. Jeff states the major changes that the chip does are under these conditions by your own admission.

"accelorating at ful throttle in 2nd from 1800 rpm the tires break traction at about 2000-2200 rpm depending on road surface" Your mileage may be as low as 8 mpg during these times. You are burning fuel and tires and not driving efficiently doing this. Do you honestly expect to get excellant mileage doing burnouts? Your wheels are turning, but you arn't going as far and using more fuel to do it. All of this is assuming you aren't driving on ice.