Golf TDI GTD2060VRK Project Thread

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
Continuation of the hijacking of the Daily thread here. This is @sardo_67 's Golf, and I'm picking up and working to get it up to it's potential.

CURRENT STATE
  • Stock intake
  • Stock injectors
  • GTD2060VRK turbo
  • DPF delete
  • Custom downpipe
  • Driving lights linked to high beams
  • SEL package (Lighting/Park Pilot)
  • Stock rearview mirrors

CURRENT ISSUES
  • Low fuel rail pressure codes when high power requested (P0087)
  • Vehicle may have excessive battery draw when it should be off (may have left equipment plugged in/hi beam relay?). Operator error.
  • Driver's window does not keep auto-up/auto-down calibration. Likely that lifter needs replacement.
  • Pre-filter intake runners not installed (being shipped).
  • Reverse camera does not retract (still works).
  • Driver's window has air leak/noise at highway speeds.
  • Small cut in valve cover from turbo installer (oil seepage). Epoxied.
  • Loose oil line behind turbo/oil leak on oil line.
  • No skid plate (included, waiting to install)
  • Suspension is soft (likely shocks, possibly bushings).
  • A/C Condenser has rotted/loose/missing fins (rocks/salt, replacement ready for install).
  • No tint.


Currently running a starter tune from Malone for the 2060, but dealing with consistent fuel rail pressure codes (P0087) and subsequent limp mode. These were happening at 2500 with previous CR150 tune (Malone didn't properly code for the bigger turbo), but now it seems to be related to... well, something that seems to happen in conjunction with a lambda of about .8, but what exactly isn't clear from the data I've logged. With slow, steady application of the throttle, I can run all the way up to 5000rpm in lower gears, but the amount of power requested in higher gears tends to cause P0087 and limp mode to kick in at lower and lower RPMs. At moderate throttle, it is perfectly driveable, with decent torque and power. Above 3000, it seems to be possible to ask for a lot more power without hitting whatever triggers P0087. The turbo becomes effective fairly low down, maybe a little over 2000, but hard to nail it down without logging full-throttle runs.

Tasks
  1. Collect appropriate logs for Malone to calibrate tune.
    1. Fuel rail pressures (nominal vs actual), regulator pressures (1 and 2, seem to reflect FRP n/a), Lambda, RPM.
    2. VNT parameters need to be collected, but may not be useful until FRP issues corrected.
  2. Consolidate Malone accounts and nail down needed logs.
  3. Check to see if battery drain was due to VCDS cable being left plugged in.
    1. Currently running time-vs-voltage test, comparing to GSW.
  4. Check for correct window regulator recalibration procedure. (Tried, not resolved)
    1. Also check for possible lubrication of regulator to avoid replacement.
  5. Valve cover gasket cut needs epoxy to seal (COMPLETED).
  6. Check for worn/misaligned window seal to cut down on noise
    1. Filled with paper during highway drive, effectively sealed the leading edge of the window.
  7. Research rearview camera replacement.
  8. Order aspherical wing mirrors.
 
Last edited:

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Don't drive yourself crazy with the low rail pressure codes, be patient and wait to see what some tune revisions do.
Happy to send you the files I use for logging in VDCS via email if you like, though it looks like you have most of them.

For the window up/down issue, resetting the regulator is simply rolling the window up and once up, hold the switch up until you hear a little click in the door, then hold it up a second time till you hear it click again (it's pretty quiet so make sure you're in a quiet place). These regulators are known to go bad, so it's pretty common to just go ahead and replace. It's a pretty easy job compared to the earlier TDIs.

Valve cover leaking sucks, replacing is not terrible but does require new injector seals when reinstalling (they're cheap anyway). Make sure to reinstall the injectors back to the same cylinder. After install when you have the fuel lines all hooked back up, run the "fuel pump electronics" via VCDS to prime the lines, then leave the injector electrical connectors off and crank the engine 2-3 times for about 5-10 seconds to make sure there is pressure back in the rail. Should start up just fine after that.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
Don't drive yourself crazy with the low rail pressure codes, be patient and wait to see what some tune revisions do.
Happy to send you the files I use for logging in VDCS via email if you like, though it looks like you have most of them.
You actually did, last year, and I had gotten so busy that I never got much chance to log. I've got a dedicated old laptop with Windows for my logging now, and it makes it a lot easier. The files have been tremendously helpful! I sent those logs off last night, and have a revised tune loading up right now.

For the window up/down issue, resetting the regulator is simply rolling the window up and once up, hold the switch up until you hear a little click in the door, then hold it up a second time till you hear it click again (it's pretty quiet so make sure you're in a quiet place). These regulators are known to go bad, so it's pretty common to just go ahead and replace. It's a pretty easy job compared to the earlier TDIs.
I was afraid that was all, I poked around in VCDS and hit a few of the obvious "regulator" ones in hopes it would fix it. Tried it again, and did the second click on both ends. It'll work in the opposite direction on the next attempt, but then is only manual. Actually came across the old thread here about the issue, and saw you had commented there as well. I'll put a regulator on the list.

Valve cover leaking sucks, replacing is not terrible but does require new injector seals when reinstalling (they're cheap anyway). Make sure to reinstall the injectors back to the same cylinder. After install when you have the fuel lines all hooked back up, run the "fuel pump electronics" via VCDS to prime the lines, then leave the injector electrical connectors off and crank the engine 2-3 times for about 5-10 seconds to make sure there is pressure back in the rail. Should start up just fine after that.
It was a tiny tiny cut, looks like someone wasn't careful with a hacksaw blade, so for now I cleaned up the oil seepage and put some epoxy on to just cover the hole. Even if that doesn't work, it was really minor- no oil flowing out, just a film from the vapor coming out over time.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
CURRENT ISSUES
  • Low fuel rail pressure codes when high power requested (P0087)
  • Vehicle may have excessive battery draw when it should be off (may have left equipment plugged in/hi beam relay?).
Malone has sent a revised tune, currently uploading for a test, so hopefully the rail pressure issue will go away.

Battery draw was down to me leaving the VCDS cable plugged in. I checked the battery over 20hrs, and voltage went from 12.76 after 1 hour to 12.74 after 20 hours, so I'm going to say nothing is drawing excessive current.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
V2 of the tune is in. On the initial drive, my seat impression is that yes, there's a definite improvement in the ability to request power. However, it's still getting the low fuel rail pressure. No logs yet, but I just cleared codes (had forgotten to after the last battery ran down, so there's a bunch of extraneous ones, but the rail code is new). It happened lower than my impression in the car, but since it was a early test I was on a local street and not getting out of 3rd, and frankly not going much above 3000rpm. I was able to push the pedal more, and got more power, before the last two tries where I got limp mode. Oddly, only one seems to have been recorded, so I'm not sure what's up with that. VCDS can't reset after you turn the ignition off and back on, does it?

Code:
3 Faults Found:
5211 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
          P0087 00 [11101101] - Too Low
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Mileage: 239037 km
                    Date: 2024.06.20
                    Time: 16:38:55

                    Engine RPM: 2676.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 100.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 72 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 90 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 91 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.240 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Fuel temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 36.5 °C
                    Mean injection quantity: 65.05 mg/stroke
                    Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered: 600.0 kPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value: 767900 hPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value: 1936500 hPa
                    Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 0.9419
                    Fuel level: 46.00 l

39742 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
          P0087 00 [01100000] - Too Low
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 239037 km
                    Date: 2024.06.20
                    Time: 16:38:55

                    Engine RPM: 2676.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 100.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 72 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 90 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 91 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.240 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Fuel temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 36.5 °C
                    Mean injection quantity: 65.05 mg/stroke
                    Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered: 600.0 kPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value: 767900 hPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value: 1936500 hPa
                    Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 0.9419
                    Fuel level: 46.00 l

17158 - Databus
          U1123 00 [00100000] - Received Error Message
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1

                    Engine RPM: 0.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 0.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 67 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 56 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.320 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Drivetrain coordinator: ACC fault status-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Drivetrain coordinator: brake fault status-Bits 0-7: 4
                    Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Drivetrain coordinator: brake function status-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Acceleration: 0.000 m/s²

Readiness: 1 1 0 0 1
Next up, see if I have time for logging tonight and send it in (and post here). I'll be traveling this weekend and won't have time to do anything more until next week, so I'll probably pull it in the garage and disconnect the battery out of paranoia.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
You actually did, last year, and I had gotten so busy that I never got much chance to log. I've got a dedicated old laptop with Windows for my logging now, and it makes it a lot easier. The files have been tremendously helpful! I sent those logs off last night, and have a revised tune loading up right now.
I looked in my messages and didn't see it, but had a feeling I had sent them over. Whoops

If I sent you a C64 DFREGT file (or possibly the C74 Rail), that's the one you want for getting the rail pressure dialed in (unless they provided you with anything else). It's almost a certainty that it will take several revisions to get it smooth.
 

sardo_67

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Location
CT
TDI
2015 Golf SEL 6spd
i noticed that wind noise from the driver side but only after my brother mentioned it to me lol
i did find this recently and it may help https://cjmind.com/products/2023168-7gwd

the battery draw is new as i never had any issues with that, the LED pod relay only gets power when the high beams are on and other than that has no draw. possibly the banks E dash gauge? that stays plugged into the OBD2 port

the oil line could be cut down and shortened a chris didn't do the best with that now that i look back at my old pictures and remember some convos we had as well as the cut valve cover from being lazy with the DP. i planned on putting some aluminum tape over it or just JB weld.


is the car eating any oil from being driven? the original motor would eat a quart every 2500 miles as if it was designed to
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
I looked in my messages and didn't see it, but had a feeling I had sent them over. Whoops

If I sent you a C64 DFREGT file (or possibly the C74 Rail), that's the one you want for getting the rail pressure dialed in (unless they provided you with anything else). It's almost a certainty that it will take several revisions to get it smooth.
C74 Rail is the one I've been using! And added the Regulator fields at your suggestion on the other thread.

I took it out for a quick errand. Definite improvement, though I didn't push it much. I think they pulled the fueling back a bit, there's maybe a light haze at the heaviest throttle I've used. Going to wait until traffic dies down and it's a little cooler to try to get a couple logs in tonight, curious to see if there's a difference in the behavior of the rail high sensor actual.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
Log file from new runs. Definite improvement. I had six, with a couple that I managed 1500-4000 in 4th, but that CSV didn't save. I got two, both with a limp mode, but that's progress. I have yet to grab the DTCs, but I'll add them here. I wanted to pull them to send to Malone.

Log with failures: First segment was from stop, first, second, and run up to 4000 in 3rd, no fault code. Following runs were in 4th, with limp mode and driftdown after that.
Log #830011

Log without failures: Two 3rd gear pulls just to try to get to 4000 without failure, for comparision. I know the load is lower, but I wondered if a longer dataset would provide some insight, so it's saved.
Log #830012
 

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
I dont know how much power your car makes or if your logs were made with full throttle.

Considering the EGTs, I guess it was.
But lets say it was full throttle and it should have more power over stock. Seeing 40mg/stk is pretty much concerning in this regard.

Nearly / Over 800Bars pressure deviance till it finally drops into limp mode is also something "special" to say the least.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
I dont know how much power your car makes or if your logs were made with full throttle.

Considering the EGTs, I guess it was.
But lets say it was full throttle and it should have more power over stock. Seeing 40mg/stk is pretty much concerning in this regard.

Nearly / Over 800Bars pressure deviance till it finally drops into limp mode is also something "special" to say the least.
Unfortunately, no. I may have hit full throttle once while not logging, but it consistently has that drop in pressure above a certain demand and at some point will flag P0078.

Do you see a dangerous EGT? I thought they were staying out of the really dangerous range, and for now I'm taking @adjat84th's advice to see if the software solves the pressure issue before going for hardware. If it doesn't or you have seen something like this, I'm open to suggestions. Malone warned me that while they had a base tune for a 2060, it would need some work. Without having a stock vehicle anymore I didn't have a good reference but if definitely feels like it's putting out more power, even at part throttle.

I've been told you might do software work on the EA288s- if so, I definitely would be interested. I had been planning to ask after working through Malone's process and seeing what they could do, but if you think they're not going the right away, I welcome your input!
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
The best way to log is to start at ~1500rpm or so and put your foot all the way to the floor and stay there till it goes into limp mode.
It may seem counterintuitive (especially if it doesn't make it very far up the revs), but it works well and lets the person on the other end know where the pedal is during the whole pull. Trying to hold the pedal at a position that allows you to rev it out (because there is an issue) doesn't help with the tuning process unless you're trying to pinpoint a very specific thing.

The EGT at 750-800C in itself is well within safe limits, but what @Xtremefunky is trying to say is that it shouldn't be that hot with only ~40mg/st fueling. That doesn't look right. You could add "main injection duration" to the log and see what they're really doing.
Also, I think in VCDS there's a single fuel pressure or metering control channel that displays in % to see how it is trying to regulate the rail. The three different regulator channels you have in the logs I don't believe will help with tuning process. And keep in mind that every added channel brings down the refresh rate a little bit.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
The best way to log is to start at ~1500rpm or so and put your foot all the way to the floor and stay there till it goes into limp mode.
It may seem counterintuitive (especially if it doesn't make it very far up the revs), but it works well and lets the person on the other end know where the pedal is during the whole pull. Trying to hold the pedal at a position that allows you to rev it out (because there is an issue) doesn't help with the tuning process unless you're trying to pinpoint a very specific thing.

The EGT at 750-800C in itself is well within safe limits, but what @Xtremefunky is trying to say is that it shouldn't be that hot with only ~40mg/st fueling. That doesn't look right. You could add "main injection duration" to the log and see what they're really doing.
Also, I think in VCDS there's a single fuel pressure or metering control channel that displays in % to see how it is trying to regulate the rail. The three different regulator channels you have in the logs I don't believe will help with tuning process. And keep in mind that every added channel brings down the refresh rate a little bit.
No, I can understand the utility of going hard to the point of failure, and how babying it can mask the issue. When I get back, I'll give that a try.

I'll change the presets for logging, the prior additions were mostly guesses as to what would be useful. The calibrator at Malone hasn't asked for anything different- I've asked for specific IDE channels they might want, hopefully today they'll respond.

Thank you to you and @Xtremefunky for commenting on this thread, it's going to be an interesting project with issues like this popping up.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
i noticed that wind noise from the driver side but only after my brother mentioned it to me lol
i did find this recently and it may help https://cjmind.com/products/2023168-7gwd

the battery draw is new as i never had any issues with that, the LED pod relay only gets power when the high beams are on and other than that has no draw. possibly the banks E dash gauge? that stays plugged into the OBD2 port

the oil line could be cut down and shortened a chris didn't do the best with that now that i look back at my old pictures and remember some convos we had as well as the cut valve cover from being lazy with the DP. i planned on putting some aluminum tape over it or just JB weld.


is the car eating any oil from being driven? the original motor would eat a quart every 2500 miles as if it was designed to
Totally missed this poking at my phone on the plane this morning.

The battery draw was my own bonehead move, I checked the draw on a new battery over the course of 20 hours and there's no issues there.

I've noticed a few slow drops of oil on the garage floor so something is definitely slowly leaking, but it's not critical yet- it's going on the back burner. Oil usage hasn't been bad, but I haven't been driving it much. I'll probably start using it for commuting next week. Even with the limitation, it's fun to drive and the torque is better than I expected with going to a bigger turbo.

As for the valve cover, I cleaned it off, sanded around it, and pasted on some epoxy. If it works, great! If not, then it's no worse than before and I'll figure out a fix later.
 

lemoncurd

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Location
Eastern CT
TDI
2013 CJAA GTB2266
chiming in here, i also went malone for their "stage 4" on my CR TDI, CJAA.
not great :)

they where unable to achieve proper boost control, and there was basically always surging when building boost.
i also got fuel pressure faults, often times leaving my car in limp mode. these faults generally occur in moments of no-to-fullThrottle by nature.... which isnt great as this generally happens when on the highway or needing to move quickly.

i re-tuned with Mr Xtremefunky and have had no issues since.

imo, cut your losses with malone, switch to Xtremefunky.
once re-tuned with him, try to get a refund from malone. they refunded me for all my DSG tunes, and all my stage 4 related tunes

i see alot of similarities with your current progression of events with malone as i had.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
Hopefully have some more useful logs today. @adjat84th, I selected the metering valve (IDE07821) and got a percentage, got rid of the others. I kept beginning of injection and added injection duration. Debated keeping lambda, and left it in, in case it was useful.

VCDS kinda confused me- I selected "Group UDS requests" with "No Split" and it blanked out all the data in the fields- instead of seeing RPM, mg/stk, etc, it showed N/A. I thought that's what I had used before, but wasn't sure, so tried selecting "By 7" and it showed the data. I logged both ways.

Logged several full-throttle runs in 4th, consistently the MIL is kicking on at about 2450 to 2550rpm. If I go full throttle in 3rd, the MIL kicks on at about 2800, happened all three or four times I tried, so my feeling is the pressure drop is based on assumptions about load, but for now that's what I observed and partly recorded. When I checked DTCs, all it recorded were 2 P0078 on runs that were done in 4th, so I don't have a code for any of the 3rd gear runs, but from what everyone here is saying that's not important- I just feel like it's incomplete if I don't have the data points to back up my observations about when it's kicking in. I have to go take care of some things, but I'll get these uploaded before I go.

7 Split Log (3rd segment is a 3rd gear run):
Log #831623



No Split Log:
Yeah, it didn't like that. Looking at the graphs, the 7 split seems to work, but I don't know if the data in the CSV is mangled when looking at it outside the nice webpage graph.

Code:
Tuesday,25,June,2024,11:21:51:33805
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.5.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4643.4
Data version: 20240429 DS355.0
www.Ross-Tech.com




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Address 01: Engine       Labels: 04L-907-309-V1.clb
Control Module Part Number: 04L 997 022 M    HW: 04L 907 309
  Component and/or Version: R4 2.0l TDI   X23 9458
           Software Coding: 01190012032410081000
            Work Shop Code: WSC 00000 000 00000
              ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI01104L997022M 004002 (VW37)
                       ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01104L997022M.rod
                      VCID: 3A2D23006CD7D90A597-806E
4 Faults Found:

5211 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
          P0087 00 [10101100] - Too Low
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Mileage: 239217 km
                    Date: 2024.06.25
                    Time: 10:59:23

                    Engine RPM: 2446.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 100.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 96 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 94 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 94 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 980 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.260 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Fuel temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 35.5 °C
                    Mean injection quantity: 66.40 mg/stroke
                    Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered: 600.0 kPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value: 746300 hPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value: 1861900 hPa
                    Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 0.9742
                    Fuel level: 33.00 l

39742 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
          P0087 00 [10101100] - Too Low
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Mileage: 239217 km
                    Date: 2024.06.25
                    Time: 10:59:23

                    Engine RPM: 2446.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 100.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 96 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 94 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 94 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 980 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.260 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Fuel temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 35.5 °C
                    Mean injection quantity: 66.40 mg/stroke
                    Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered: 600.0 kPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value: 746300 hPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value: 1861900 hPa
                    Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 0.9742
                    Fuel level: 33.00 l

5227 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
          P0087 00 [10101100] - Too Low
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Mileage: 239219 km
                    Date: 2024.06.25
                    Time: 11:00:51

                    Engine RPM: 2567.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 99.2 %
                    Vehicle speed: 100 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 90 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 103 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 980 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.240 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Fuel temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 38.6 °C
                    Mean injection quantity: 65.44 mg/stroke
                    Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered: 600.0 kPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value: 818900 hPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value: 1903900 hPa
                    Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 0.9666
                    Fuel level: 32.00 l

39744 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
          P0087 00 [10101100] - Too Low
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Mileage: 239219 km
                    Date: 2024.06.25
                    Time: 11:00:51

                    Engine RPM: 2567.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 99.2 %
                    Vehicle speed: 100 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 90 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 103 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 980 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.240 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Fuel temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 38.6 °C
                    Mean injection quantity: 65.44 mg/stroke
                    Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered: 600.0 kPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value: 818900 hPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value: 1903900 hPa
                    Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 0.9666
                    Fuel level: 32.00 l


Readiness: 1 4 0 0 1
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Just a guess, the metering valve needs to do more work to keep rail pressure up. It looks stuck at 30% even as pressure begins to drop.
 
Last edited:

Xtremefunky

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2022
Location
Germany
TDI
EA189, EA896G2, EA288
Its kinda weird to see the metering valve not doing much.
So cant be too certain. From the looks of it I would say, one or more things could be the case:

-fuel filter
-massive injector return amount (starting at a certain pressure threshold)
-pressure control valve stuck / old
-metering unit stuck

I want to point out: PCV and MeUn doesnt have response. If they are clogged or stuck, you wont find out unless they overheat and die.

This is what I can extract by looking like 5 minutes at the log.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
Its kinda weird to see the metering valve not doing much.
So cant be too certain. From the looks of it I would say, one or more things could be the case:

-fuel filter
-massive injector return amount (starting at a certain pressure threshold)
-pressure control valve stuck / old
-metering unit stuck

I want to point out: PCV and MeUn doesnt have response. If they are clogged or stuck, you wont find out unless they overheat and die.

This is what I can extract by looking like 5 minutes at the log.
Thanks for taking a look!

I believe the filter was done not too long ago in terms of miles driven, but the car hasn't run consistently for a while and I suppose that may be a factor. I'll ask @sardo_67 if he recalls the last service interval, and get a filter kit on the way- it can't hurt to change it out and take a look for sediment.

PCV or metering unit are things I'll keep my fingers crossed about. Prior to logging, I did see small changes in the metering % on VCDS when revving the engine without load, which may or may not be a useful bit of info.

A Malone tuner did take a look at that last log today, said it looks like it might be insufficient volume from the CP3. He asked if the car is only using the in-tank electric lift pump, or is still using the second electric one up front. I don't know that answer- I didn't know there was a second one up front? I have heard that not all CP3 pumps are the same, so I'm wondering if this is another possible problem? I'll try to track down exactly who it came from (I know it was from Europe, done as a kit for the EA288, but that's all for now). My other TDI has a CP3 kit from Darkside installed, and that one seems to be doing fine.
 
Last edited:

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
Aside from this current weirdness, I have to say that I've been commuting with it, and as long as I avoid heavy throttle, I'm really enjoying the power characteristics. I like the throttle response, and it pulls pretty well in normal traffic. Granted, I'm driving conservatively, but I still like how it feels.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
From Malone:

An R70 CP3 should be able to supply 350+hp worth of fuel. There are some CP3 variants both with and without an internal (gear type) lift pump, though I can't say this would be the issue either. Let me know what you find out regarding the kit.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
There's only one electric in-tank pump on the MK7, whether your CP3 has the internal gear pump might require a picture (I also didn't think they would fit the MK7 with the charge cooler in the way).
@sardo_67 correct me if I'm wrong, did the pump not come from @Macradiators.com
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
There's only one electric in-tank pump on the MK7, whether your CP3 has the internal gear pump might require a picture (I also didn't think they would fit the MK7 with the charge cooler in the way).
@sardo_67 correct me if I'm wrong, did the pump not come from @Macradiators.com
It confused me, I talked with a friend and he confirmed there's no other electric pump. The Malone guy may have been thinking another engine, but then he came back with reference to the R70 version, which tracks. I've got a photo @sardo_67 took of the pump, with a part number:
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
It confused me, I talked with a friend and he confirmed there's no other electric pump. The Malone guy may have been thinking another engine, but then he came back with reference to the R70 version, which tracks. I've got a photo @sardo_67 took of the pump, with a part number:
That looks like it is just the metering unit part number? If you need pump specifics, I'd reach out to @Macradiators.com probably quickest to respond on Facebook via CP3 Upgrade & Turbo by MAC Performance. You could ask them if the metering unit on your pump has been modified. The tiny cylinder on the inside is what moves back and forth to allow fuel into the pump through very specifically shaped orifices.
Out of the possible causes that @Xtremefunky mentioned, the bigger variable in your situation would seem to be the metering unit since the other items he mentioned are all stock on your car I believe?
If a tune update improves your rail pressure and changes the MeUn behavior, then maybe you have your answer. If no improvement, maybe time to inspect or replace the MeUn. FWIW, these updates to the tune don't take more than 5-10 minutes for someone that knows what they're doing.
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
FB message sent. Mac seems to offer an R70 and R90 pump, I don't think this is the R90, but sent the part numbers and specifically asked if it was modified or might need calibration. Hopefully they'll get back today. AFAIK all other components are still stock.

I'll log some other parameters Malone asked for and send them in. Even if that improves, I think I'll be taking @lemoncurd and @adjat84th's advice soon. I'm treating this partly as a learning experience, just working through the process.

Thanks to everyone who's providing input!
 

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
Short log. The fields selected are from an old request dealing with this fuel rail pressure issue. I assume that the field "Fuel Metering Valve: activation" is what we mean by "duty cycle," since they are both expressed as percentages. Fuel metering valve is almost steady, torque and injection quantity track closely until limp mode kicks in. I didn't record anything besides what was requested, and though I tried logging about 3 additional runs, only the first saved.

Interestingly, after trying about 4 1500-4000 runs I decided to try to record a high-rpm log. I found that if I waited until above 3000 and went full throttle in 3rd, I did not get any limp mode. Power was weaker than in the past above 4000, and it stopped accelerating at about 4400, I think because everything was heatsoaked and either intake temps or EGTs hit a limit for the tune. Very little smoke during the run. I had hoped to have those logs to see what the metering valve was doing, because I know it's going above the 29%. VCDS allows graphing and even throwing up little pseudoguages with min/max markers, and I had that set up. The gage recorded a peak fuel metering activation of 63.8%. I'm not seeing this on the next set of logs. Later, after everything has had a chance to cool to at least ambient (37C or so) I'll go out and try again.

Log #832325



I'm interested in how metering valve activation and pressure regulation valve activation seem to operate opposite each other, especially after the let-off. Fuel quantity is still fairly low, but then again the log cuts off at about 2500rpm. I'll attach the DTC, pretty much the same as before.


Code:
5211 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
          P0087 00 [10101100] - Too Low
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Mileage: 239235 km
                    Date: 2024.06.26
                    Time: 14:08:58

                    Engine RPM: 2490.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 100.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 97 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 90 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 102 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 980 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.120 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Fuel temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 38.0 °C
                    Mean injection quantity: 63.27 mg/stroke
                    Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered: 600.0 kPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value: 818900 hPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value: 1875500 hPa
                    Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 0.9794
                    Fuel level: 30.00 l

39742 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure
          P0087 00 [10101100] - Too Low
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Mileage: 239235 km
                    Date: 2024.06.26
                    Time: 14:08:58

                    Engine RPM: 2490.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 100.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 97 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 90 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 102 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 980 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.120 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Fuel temperature sensor 1: B1: raw value: 38.0 °C
                    Mean injection quantity: 63.27 mg/stroke
                    Fuel pres.sens.1 bank 1 upstr from HD pump: act.val. filtered: 600.0 kPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: actual value: 818900 hPa
                    Fuel high pressure sensor: nominal value: 1875500 hPa
                    Pressure control valve adaptation factor: 0.9794
                    Fuel level: 30.00 l


Readiness: 1 2 0 0 1
 
Last edited:

Echo_Alpha

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2022
Location
Texas
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, GSW TDI, Golf TDI MT
New logs. I tried a couple different sets of parameters, mostly for personal curiosity. First one adds EGT, because I was wondering if I was hitting that as a limit, and the middle set is a high-RPM log, from 3000 up to about 4500. Obviously the torque is going to drop off there, but I'm curious why the mean injection quantity drops off- maybe it's due to the shorter injection window, or a pullback for continued high EGTs? The other four are pretty consistent with the behavior I can observe, but the metering valve activation is... flat, nothing. It actually declines as the engine RPM increases; is this normal?

Log #832395

Duty cycles, EGT, torque during full-throttle run to limp mode:


Duty cycles, EGT, torque druing high-RPM full-throttle run until acceleration stops:


Second log here was to add in fuel pressure regulation info that I was curious about- since on other logs I've seen a steady decrease, I was wanting to record behaviors at high RPM. It seems to keep up at times, but then suddenly drops a bit. I can't tell if that's in response to another criteria, or if the pump itself is faltering and then picking back up. In both, after another few seconds the Reg #2, which I think is "actual," is back to the level it was providing prior to the blip, and then provides more than commanded until I let off.

Log #832398

Fuel regulation during high-RPM, full-throttle:


I'm going to send these logs in, and see if they can do anything. The metering unit seems to be modulating a little, even though it's down as the RPMs go up. Should it be moving more? The pressure regulator duty cycle does change, and in a couple logs the regulator pressures seem to be tracking together, until they aren't. What am I not seeing?
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Those EGTs are low, I think stock setting is 850C and it's safe to run ~935C in most cases.
Fuel mg/st dropping could be from a number of things, but from your logs it is not from EGT unless they have the limiter lowered for some reason. Could be lowering because of boost request/actual, didn't see that metric in any of the logs.
I typically would do a log of each, the VNT, Rail, EGT, and AFR files.
Though now just using two files with I believe 8 channels viewed as it's enough for @Xtremefunky to make good adjustments.

Also, no need to keep logging if it's all on the same ECU file. Would wait for an updated one to see if anything changes in the data or your seat feel.
 
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