Glyphosate (Round-up) Monsanto Catastrophe

[manual_tranny]

Sadly, this is going to add a rather disturbing twist to the production of biodiesel, ethanol, and pretty much all midwestern crops.

http://farmandranchfreedom.org/gmo-miscarriages

http://vimeo.com/22997532

The last two years we've had a very significant epidemic of goss's wilt on corn and sudden death syndrome on soybean. We've had to increase the rate of glyphosate so that we've just.. continually hammered against those organisms that would give us some natural biological control of that disease. The mode of action of glyphosate as an herbacide is to supress resistance and increase disease. So that when you have any weed that's killed by glyphosate, you've increased it's suseptability to disease. Plant pathologists have also seen an increased disease.... the inability to keep their crop production, their growers, efficient and in business. Then you look at the quality of that crop that's been produced, which we're growing initially for food and feed, even it it's going into alcohol... the rest of that crop {is} used for feed! ... and we find very high populations of this organism in the distiller's grain! So, it's coming through the ethanol production, the fermentive process.. {we} find it very high in corn silage.. so that the ensiling process seems to give it an environment where it's even able to continue to grow, even beyond what it did in the regular growth in the plant."

Edited to save the readers/viewers some time. I encourage you to watch the whole thing, and/or do your independent research.

 

[Lee_Taylor]

I don't know about you but I wasn't planning on running my car on Roundup. What is the relevance to alternative fuels?

 

[manual_tranny]

I don't know about you but I wasn't planning on running my car on Roundup. What is the relevance to alternative fuels?

PM me for my phone number, give me a call, and I'll read the links for you.

Otherwise, you're going to have to do it yourself!

 

[Lightflyer1]

Less biomass for oil/food production. Back to organic farming methods. Although if the Joule system proves out we won't need any biomass for biodiesel production.

http://www.jouleunlimited.com/

 

[schwarze Käfer]

I wouldn't put much stock into it. Looks mostly if not entirely political spurred by another wannabe "green & natural political action group/lobby". In other words, another bunch like the global warming crap. I.E. - they want money, power and control.

The good Dr. has been harping this message for years - just nobody's buying it.
This group of green & natural do-gooders are trying to promote it because it's useful for their cause.

 

[manual_tranny]

I wouldn't put much stock into it. Looks mostly if not entirely political spurred by another wannabe "green & natural political action group/lobby". In other words, another bunch like the global warming crap. I.E. - they want money, power and control.

The good Dr. has been harping this message for years - just nobody's buying it.
This group of green & natural do-gooders are trying to promote it because it's useful for their cause.

There is a new fungal pathogen that can attack both plants and mammals. It's not the sort of thing that would show up in routine tests because it's only visible by electron microscope. This is a result of glyphosate... which encourages non glyphosate plants to contract disease. (not just to target and kill them)

As a mammal, you should be more afraid of things like this.

 

[UFO]

Another unintended consequence of GMO, gene patenting and monoculture. Thanks Monsantoe.

 

[UFO]

I wouldn't put much stock into it. Looks mostly if not entirely political spurred by another wannabe "green & natural political action group/lobby". In other words, another bunch like the global warming crap. I.E. - they want money, power and control.

The good Dr. has been harping this message for years - just nobody's buying it.
This group of green & natural do-gooders are trying to promote it because it's useful for their cause.

Denial is so great, can I have some please?

 

[manual_tranny]

Pathogen Location and Concentration:
It is found in high concentrations in Roundup Ready soybean meal and corn, distillers meal, fermentation feed products, pig stomach contents, and pig and cattle placentas.
Linked with Outbreaks of Plant Disease

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2928423&postcount=3
from 03-28-10:

Duallymax,

Thanks very much for the reply. I am already a bit of a farmer, and to tell you the truth I'd rather spend all day on small diesels than 5 more minutes pressure washing pig **** out of a building. It gets in my mustache. Not cool.

Just sayin, this effects real people.

 

[schwarze Käfer]

Got any photos of this remarkable pathogen? No?

Any published studies? No?

USDA reports? No? CDC alert? No?


Sure seems to meet this criteria: http://www.webexhibits.org/bogus/index.html

 

[manual_tranny]

Would it also surprise you to learn that McNuggets contain dimethylpolysiloxane, an anti-foaming agent and ingredient in silly putty?

 

[Lightflyer1]

Probably why they taste so good.

 

[schwarze Käfer]

And what does McNuggets have to do with the topic at hand? Other than nothing?

There's a difference between real science and science fiction.

If there was any truth to this, it would not only be extremely well documented but there would be literally thousands of images of this "pathogen" all over the net.
Every electron microscope has photographic capability, and any "scientist" smart enough to operate one would be smart enough to photograph and publish an image of a before unknown pathogen. Hell, he'd even be smart enough to name it and share his research with the scientific community. (That's what real scientists do)

You've been scammed by another political "crisis" designed to pander to your emotions and good intentions, not your brain.

 

[schwarze Käfer]

Probably why they taste so good.

And why those ground up chicken parts don't come back up!
(Dimethylpolysiloxane is used as an antigas medicine)

 

[40X40]

Has this been published anywhere credible? MT, I know you come from a farming background, what do your folks think about this? What do your folks' industry contacts say?

Bill

 

[Dieselfitter]

Monsanto Sucks!

Monsanto Sucks,
Monsanto are Criminals,
This does not Rhyme,
And I don't care.


They Should NEVER have been given the Right to Patent a GM Seed. End of story!

 

[manual_tranny]

OK, you guys were right to question my sources and the information.

I've tried to do a little more homework and found that neither "side" (Huber vs. Monsanto) has anything to offer that I would consider suitable evidence.

40x40, I found articles at Reuters. Is that a good enough source? (I'm not being facetious)

Scientist warns on safety of Monsanto's Roundup

FEATURE - Cancer cause or crop aid? Herbicide faces big test.

Now... obviously I made a mistake assuming that this pathogen without pictures or a name exists. After doing a little more reading, it seems obvious to me that anyone taking a stand on the issue is either guessing or has secret information they won't share.

Here's the deal: the scientist (Huber) who made these statements did not appear to try to confirm his data with other scientists before going to the media. That is obviously a red flag for someone looking for the truth.

On the other hand we have Monsanto, and those on their side. You'd have to be a fool to believe that Monsanto would admit that they had anything to do with causing a new pathogen to be released that would damage our crops. They would certianly deny any allegations, especially if they were caught red-handed.

So, what are we left to believe?

Please note, information posted from this point forward are updates to the thread meant to flesh-out the discussion. We can have a discussion about this subject without getting personal. I was mistaken in the beginning of the thread to assume that what I was reading was correct. Take future posts in this thread with a grain of salt, until we can find conclusive evidence on either side.

FROM: http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2011/02/monsanto-begins-smear-campaign-on-huber/

MONSANTO’S BIG LIE
Then Monsanto drops what might appear to be an innocuous disclaimer: “Monsanto is not aware of any reliable studies that demonstrate Roundup Ready crops are more susceptible to certain diseases or that the application of glyphosate to Roundup Ready crops increases a plant’s susceptibility to diseases.”
If you listen closely, you can hear scores of scientists laughing aloud at that one. The key word therein, of course, is “reliable.” By whose definition would dozens, if not hundreds, of studies be considered reliable? By Monsanto’s definition, if the St. Louis conglomerate did not conduct or commission the study, it must not be reliable.
With that statement, Monsanto is clearly flat-out lying, according to numerous sources, many who do not want their names mentioned for fear of retribution. One scientist who would go on the record was, however, direct.
“The statement in Monsanto’s letter of response is disingenuous,” said Dr. James E. Rahe, Professor Emeritus, Department of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, B.C. “The published research from my lab done during the 1980s and 1990s showed that glyphosate (Roundup) causes increased susceptibility of dicot species to infection by root rot fungi such as pythium and fusarium.”

 

[Lightflyer1]

The Reuters articles aren't a source as they are just reporting the same thing in almost the same words as if they all got it off the AP wire service. The one thing I did notice from your first link to Reuters was the comment at the bottom:

Comments (1)
Paul.Vincelli wrote: I am also a university-based plant pathologist who happens to have seen the electron micrographs of the proposed “microfungus”, shown to me by the lead investigator of that work. Based on what I have seen and learned about this issue, it is still not clear whether those structures are organismal or artifact. Much, much more science needs to be done.
I have no financial, professional, or emotional interest in glyphosate. I just think policies should be based on sound, evidenced-based information. All of this public debate is taking place based on highly speculative, very incomplete research that has not been presented in a single scientific conference nor published in a refereed journal.


http://www.ca.uky.edu/agcollege/plantpathology/people/vincelli.htm

 

[schwarze Käfer]

MT, you seem like a smart guy. Not only that, but you also seem to be caring and concerned and full of good intentions, and that's very admirable.

Just realize that the world is full of unscrupulous people that prey on people's good intentions. They will lie, cheat and steal to get what they want - and they don't give a damn who it hurts. They also like to use "causes" because they don't have to hunt for their prey, the prey comes to them.

I don't know about you, but I do not like to be lied to or mislead.

It's been what, 5 months since that story was published, still no photos or even a shred of evidence?

This is a ruse and the people behind it are no better than criminals.

 

[manual_tranny]

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/list.php?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4d5fd9b8d65f4976%2C0

 

[manual_tranny]

MT, you seem like a smart guy. Not only that, but you also seem to be caring and concerned and full of good intentions, and that's very admirable.

Just realize that the world is full of unscrupulous people that prey on people's good intentions. They will lie, cheat and steal to get what they want - and they don't give a damn who it hurts. They also like to use "causes" because they don't have to hunt for their prey, the prey comes to them.

I don't know about you, but I do not like to be lied to or mislead.

It's been what, 5 months since that story was published, still no photos or even a shred of evidence?

This is a ruse and the people behind it are no better than criminals.

We have spoken at length with Howard Vlieger, the president of Verity Farms, who has been following the debate about genetically modified crops for years. He said he is aware of the names of the scientists who discovered the pathogen referenced in Huber’s letter — but says those names must be protected for now.
“If you’re a practicing researcher dependent on a certain level of funding, it can be very, very damaging to come forward with any information that is considered detrimental to the GM industry,” said Vlieger. “It can literally ruin careers.”

I'd say this is plausible circumstantial evidence.

 

[schwarze Käfer]

Plausible? Sure, but so are little green men from Mars! Lol

And, now it conveniently fits sign #2!

So far, we have 5 signs that this "science" is bogus
1, 2, 3, 4, 6 (and maybe #7, too! But it's too early to tell, yet.)

It's on par with Cold Fusion! (That one fooled alot of real scientists.)


SEVEN SIGNS OF BOGUS SCIENCE
1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media.
2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to suppress his or her work
3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of detection.
4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal
5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for centuries
6. The discoverer has worked in isolation.
7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an observation.

 

[manual_tranny]

Down boy.

I heard you the first time.

Please add something you've found that includes evidence.

 

[schwarze Käfer]

How's this?:

Scientist Letter to USDA Secretary Vilsack Possibly a Fraud

- Fred Gerendasy, Cooking Up Story, February 24, 2011

Yesterday, Cooking Up a Story referenced a letter purportedly sent from Dr. Don M. Huber, Professor Emeritus at Purdue University, and coordinator for the Emergent Diseases and Pathogens committee of the American Phytopathological Society, to Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack. In that letter, Huber announced the discovery of a dangerous new pathogen that may be associated with the use of glyphosate based herbicides, such as Roundup, calling for the temporary moratorium on the recent decision to deregulate roundup ready alfalfa until further safety studies could be conducted that would either uphold the RR alfalfa decision, or direct a different course.

Cooking Up a Story now has reason to believe that letter may be a fraud. Peter Goldsbrough, professor and head of the Department of Botany and Plant Pathology at Purdue University where Dr. Huber had taught prior to his retirement 3 years ago, indicated by phone his skepticism over the authenticity of the letter, and most of the information contained within it. Professor Goldsbrough stated that he, and the colleagues in his department, "are not aware of any new pathogen that has been identified". The letter states in part: "A team of senior plant and animal scientists have recently brought to my attention the discovery of an electron microscopic pathogen that appears to significantly impact the health of plants, animals, and probably human beings" .

Goldsbrough explained, not only would it be highly unusual for a single pathogen (within the same species) to pass across multiple species' barriers, its claims about the deleterious effects of glyphosate on the production of certain crops, he and his fellow colleagues also found to be suspect. The letter goes on to say:

" It is well-documented that glyphosate promotes soil pathogens and is already implicated with the increase of more than 40 plant diseases; it dismantles plant defenses by chelating vital nutrients; and it reduces the bioavailability of nutrients in feed, which in turn can cause animal disorders."

Professor Goldsbrough stated, "There are claims made that the use of Roundup and glyphosate, and the roundup ready system is causing significant declines in yield to some crops, and an increased incidence of diseases in some crops. The pathologists that I work with in this department, have no evidence for those claims." He went on to say, "this organism that is claimed is a complete mystery, and many of these other things claimed to be connections between this organism, the use of roundup, the use of roundup ready crops, are completely unsubstantiated, and I'm not aware of any evidence for these claims"

A call to the USDA Office of the Executive Secretariat (OES) was unable to locate any letter of correspondence, or email, from Dr. Don M. Huber to Secretary Vilsack since December of 2010. Within this time frame, the Secretary of Agriculture did not receive correspondence from Dr. Huber. As of yesterday, an email to Dr. Huber's last known address to confirm the authenticity of the letter, and for his comment, have gone unanswered.

 

[manual_tranny]

How's this?:

That's great!

Just stating the obvious: only one of these guys can be correct about the new "pathogen".

I'm waiting for something substantial to be published to make up my mind either way.

 

[schwarze Käfer]

I'm afraid you're in for an extremely long wait.

This "pathogen" is proving more allusive than the Roswell aliens.

I personally think that someone needs to confiscate the good Dr.'s decoder ring and library card before he gets himself into real trouble.

Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me! - Gomer Pyle

 

[resinguy]

Would it also surprise you to learn that McNuggets contain dimethylpolysiloxane, an anti-foaming agent and ingredient in silly putty?

PPM levels of silicone fluid is aded to commercial frying oils, to reduce violent foaming when the wet food is put in the hot oil. This application is approved by the FDA. As noted above, another kind of siloxane is used in OTC meds like Maalox AntiGas.

I suspect you could eat that Silly Putty, and it would pass through substantially unchanged.

So what's your point?

 

[manual_tranny]

It was an off-topic comment, not directed at you.

 

[manual_tranny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-G6VhUynY

Just sayin...

 

[kiwibru]

Interesting exchange of thoughts. It does point out one issue the non-GMO crowd is probably correct about...there has been little science beyond the initial Monsanto based "we will prove it safe" stuff to give Round-Up Ready technology a clean bill of health into the future. There has been no "cautionary principle" used to investigate the long term implications of the technology and it's use. Stated another way, we are ALL INVOLVED in a massively BIG experiment. If you eat, you participate.