Glx Tdi Syncro

[queek]

Or Turbo Diesel - you bring up an important point about insuring converted vehicles. I'll will have to switch from Geico - at least in NJ they don't insure modified cars.

I had this very discouraging experience yesterday: when I tried to fill the tank, the fuel went down the filler neck and then a moment later it was as if some pressure blew half of it back out - in NJ you can't pump your own fuel and the guy pumping the fuel was pissed after this happen three times and refused to pump any more. I managed to get 1-1/2 gallons into the tank. It works if I slowly pour the fuel in using a fuel can. The tank has a separate filler neck that has a check ball where it connects to the tank that might be restricting the heavier diesel oil, but to take it apart requires dropping the rear end down to lower the fuel tank...

Anyone have any ideas?

One thing I would have done differently was to follow my instincts and gone with a lower (numerically higher) final drive ratio and a .658 5th. While the TDI Gear is great for keeping the revs down, 1st and 2nd are pretty anemic until I get over 1500rpm with the added weight of the AWD drivetrain.

 

[queek]

I've driven the car to work (6 miles each way) a couple of times now. I got 36mpg driving generally about 45 mph or lower and mostly in 4th gear in between lights.

I got to go play in the snow! You can see how the rear really pulls in reverse.

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/ptrmzr/?action=view&current=a9a18f08.mp4

I still have a few bugs to work out, but it's 11 deg F in the garage...

 

[queek]

I never thought I'd walk away from the DMV...

with a smile on my face.

I had been worrying how I would get the car re-inspected now with diesel, but now that the state has cancelled all inspections except for emissions to save money and diesels were already exempt - the DMV told me to simply scrap my expired sticker off the windshield and forget about inspections! "The cops are supposed to know that diesels are exempt."

...at least until the fatality rate climbs in the absence of safety inspections or until the next governor is elected - whichever comes first.

 

[TonyJetta]

WOW!

And I thought I was doing good, when we moved to Tucson and had to pay only $12.50 for the emissions test...while in Phoenix, it was $27.50...go figure!

TOny

 

[queek]

Weird fueling problem

To make this awd conversion happen I needed to use the syncro fuel tank and filler neck which are two separate pieces and was intended for gasoline. The point at which the filler neck slips into the tank is necked down to about a 1" ID.

The tank does have aeration tubes, but I don't know if the check(?) valve at the top is working

The problem I am having is when filling at the pump the fuel starts to go down the filler neck uneventfully for the about 5 seconds and then suddenly blows back out the top through the opening and of course all over my hand and forearm. I let the foam settle back down and I re-tried to fill with the same results. I am able to get it to fill but only if I do it ever so slowly.

So could this be a result of the foaming nature of the fuel combined with the restriction in the filler neck?


Any ideas? Thanks, Peter

 

[TonyJetta]

What about installing a vent tube, either internal to the filler neck, or external? Let the air vent.

Tony

 

[queek]

Hi Tony. It has one, but maybe it's plugged. I'll check it out. Thanks!

 

[B3Syncro]

It sure sounds like there is a vent line restriction somewhere, but here are a few other thoughts to ponder.

The foaming of the diesel fuel may be over loading the vent system for some reason, creating restriction to air flow. (I doubt it, but it might be possible)

There is a plastic ball on the internal end of the filler neck that might be stuck in the upper position, partially blocking the flow of fuel into the tank. (I've seen this on a tank I had in long term storage.) This ball is there to prevent fuel back-flow up the filler neck while topping off the tank so don't try removing it! Make sure the ball has free movement in it's holder.

*** Remember, the filler neck dumps into the tank below the top, so air must escape throught the vent hoses once the fuel levels are over about 40% of the capacity of the syncro tank. Was your fueling problem when completely empty or with a half-full tank?

The Syncro body has a hole in the frame rail to pass the filler neck vent tubes through. This was done to ensure a straight run of the tubing with no dips or low spots. Passing them under the frame on your VR6 chassis creates a low spot which can collect fuel and block the venting action. You need to make a hole at the top of the frame rail to pass the vent lines through.

It is also possible that the check valve in the top of the filler neck is stuck closed. They can be diss-assembled and cleaned, but you need to drop the tank to do so.

Let us know what you find. I'll be watching this thread and know the syncro stuff inside out.

Les

 

[rotarykid]

what a great project , reminds me of some of the things I did in the late 70s .

 

[queek]

Thanks for the compliment rotarykid - it's a blast to drive - especially in the snow! What kind of project did you do in the 70's?

B3syncro I took a quick look tonight and I didn't see any fuel sitting in the low spots, but the tubes could be kinked blocking air flow. Your description of how the how the filler neck enters the tank jogged my thinking. Air trapped in the head space could build up pressure if not relieved, enough to suddenly overcome the weight of the fuel in the neck causing it to spew out the opening.

So maybe this weekend I'll drop the tank - make the hole. This will give me a chance to repair some rust in that wheel well. Do you think I can get the tank out by removing the fasteners holding the cross-member in place and lowering the rear end letting it pivot on the front bushings to the point where the foward lip of the tank will fit over the cross member?

Was this hole tube pass-through only seen on all B3's or just the B3 syncros? I learned about it well after I had installed the tank:
you can just make out the hole going through the top of the rail...
http://www.vwsyncro.co.uk/p.asp?arc...asket_params_index=&noflash=&video_or_image=#

Regards, Peter

 

[B3Syncro]

B3syncro I took a quick look tonight and I didn't see any fuel sitting in the low spots, but the tubes could be kinked blocking air flow. Your description of how the how the filler neck enters the tank jogged my thinking. Air trapped in the head space could build up pressure if not relieved, enough to suddenly overcome the weight of the fuel in the neck causing it to spew out the opening.

So maybe this weekend I'll drop the tank - make the hole. This will give me a chance to repair some rust in that wheel well. Do you think I can get the tank out by removing the fasteners holding the cross-member in place and lowering the rear end letting it pivot on the front bushings to the point where the foward lip of the tank will fit over the cross member?

Was this hole tube pass-through only seen on all B3's or just the B3 syncros? I learned about it well after I had installed the tank:
you can just make out the hole going through the top of the rail...
http://www.vwsyncro.co.uk/p.asp?arc...asket_params_index=&noflash=&video_or_image=#

Regards, Peter

Peter,
The link you provided brings you to my photo album on vwsyncro.co.uk. The photos are of my B3 syncro wagon project, which by the way is still not finished as I have had more pressing family issues to deal with.

Regarding the hole in the frame rail. the Factory hole was "D" shaped with the flat facing up against the floorpan. The hole actually was a tube that passed through the frame. This feature only exisited on Passat chassis originally equipped with the syncro option. Here in Canada that means B3 syncro only.

To add this vent tube "hole" I would get a piece of 1-1/8" or 1-1/4" exhaust tube, and a matching hole saw to cut the hole. cut the hole as high as possible in the frame, keeping the hole below the floorpan. Slip in the exhaust tube and epoxy or weld it in place so that the frame is sealed from the wheel well. your vent tubes can then pass through the tube you installed. If memory serves me correctly, the hole is positioned directly in line with the filler neck, so mark the position on the frame befor you drop the tank.

As for tank removal, you should be able to drop it as you mentioned, but it will require some wiggling of the tank as it is a tight fit. ypu can remove the rear diff mount and crossmember completely while leaving the diff and suspension hanging on the front bushings. This wil lgive you lots more room to drop the tank.

If you have any more questions, ask away, I'd be happy to help a fellow syncro fanatic!

Les Burt

 

[MrDave]

Regarding the hole in the frame rail. the Factory hole was "D" shaped with the flat facing up against the floorpan. The hole actually was a tube that passed through the frame. This feature only exisited on Passat chassis originally equipped with the syncro option. Here in Canada that means B3 syncro only.

To add this vent tube "hole" I would get a piece of 1-1/8" or 1-1/4" exhaust tube, and a matching hole saw to cut the hole. cut the hole as high as possible in the frame, keeping the hole below the floorpan. the hole is positioned directly in line with the filler neck, so mark the position on the frame befor you drop the tank.

A little help on placement:

-Dave

 

[B3Syncro]

Once you have your hole done and the tubes installed, I would suggest putting a piece of oil-soaked foam under the vent tubes to hold them up in place. This will minimise any low spots and reduce any possible fretting and resulting leakage. The oil in the foam is just a form of rust prevention as the foam would otherwise hold moisture.

Yu could also seal the hole around the vent tubes with "dumb - dumb", a non-hardening grey putty used in refrigeration & plumbing to seal air leaks where the tubes pass through panels, walls, etc.

 

[queek]

Thanks syncro gurus for your help! It took a little longer than a weekend,
but I got it done and problem is solved!! In addition to the hoses running under the rail there were a few places that were kinked.

Lowering and pivoting the rear drive on the front bushings the rear cross
member can be slid out permitting the tank to come down...

The center line of the filler neck and a safe place to drill through the rail...

My aim was a little low on the frame rail and there on the other side is a
knock out for syncro vent tubing! ...for the European market B4 syncro. It
was held in with one spot weld on top. I wonder why VW didn't import B4
syncros to Canada? Was not the the B3Syncro a success?

Choosing to use the knock-out I dropped the round pipe idea for D-shaped
hole like the factory approach using a piece of perforated stainless steel. I
shifted the hole up tacked up the hole and flanged the perf sheet to
secure it. I filled the frame rail void with great stuff to keep the moisture
out and undercoated the bejesus out of all the surfaces. The big vent
hose still needed a 90 degree fitting to keep it from kinking:

Filled it up and took the long way home:

 

[B3Syncro]

Glad it all worked out as everyone suggested it would. It is great to see syncro owners step up to a challenge and provide the info necessary to keep a project on the road.

 

[Or Turbo Diesel]

I'm wondering about a source for the same syncro parts on the West Coast, perhaps BC. My Passat wagon is on the road and I have a small trailer. If you have any ideas let me know...

Now that you have had your syncro on the road for a while how do you like the G60 transmission gearing? Do you miss the Tdi gearing, and plan on switching?

Glad to see it on the road, thanks for taking the time to document it.

 

[queek]

Or Turbo Diesel, look up jman on the vortex. He's right in Portland and he imports syncro parts from Europe...jman1066@aol.com.

I ended up swapping in the TDI gearing. I think the G60 gearing would have been too low (high revving) although the TDI final drive could be a bit lower.

 

[queek]

I decided to put it up for sale:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=3863194#post3863194

 

[TDIsyncro]

I'm wondering about a source for the same syncro parts on the West Coast, perhaps BC. My Passat wagon is on the road and I have a small trailer. If you have any ideas let me know...

Now that you have had your syncro on the road for a while how do you like the G60 transmission gearing? Do you miss the Tdi gearing, and plan on switching?

Glad to see it on the road, thanks for taking the time to document it.

Just remeber, you may think you will save by building one yourself instead of buying it done..but experiance tells everyone that builds project cars that it is much less money to buy one all ready built, and the other rule is one always looses a huge chunk of his investment when selling a project car. Sucks for the builder, is great news for a buyer. You should seriously consider buying Queeks or some other pre-built one before you build. You can always make some personal customizations afterwords to make it more to your liking.
btw I sold all my spare syncro stuff to Jman. He paid me a fair price on it all.

 

[Big Daddy Roth]

Tony, thanks for the lead on the 5th injector delete. I'll have to research this more a little later.

Before I get to that point I'm stuck on the connecting the TDI wiring harness: I didn't do a very good job labeling the wires when I pulled them out of the donor. (for what it's worth I have all the donor electrical including the cluster) It's obvious where the bulk of the harness connectors plug in, but there are about 8 wires that have me stumped.

These have connectors that clearly don't plug into the central electrics so I am assuming that they connect up to wires "loose" and outside of the fuse block. I've scoured the Bentley section dedicate to the TDI (X171 thru X179). I also looked in the "standard equipment" section and maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but I can't find these:

1 wire; brown/blue; gray male connector
1 wire; black/red; green connector Brake light switch. Matching connector should be coming out of the W plug.
1 wire; black; green connector Switched power for cruise control. Connects to terminal block on top of fuse box.
2 wire; blk/rd - rd/blk; black connector 50 wire (one from ignition switch the other to the starter) this connects to alarm wiring for immobilizer
1 wire; green; yellow male connector AC Signal from HVAC
1 wire; grey/white; brown connector K-Line for OBD2
1 wire; purple white; black male connector MFA Mileage. Connects to cluster wiring

Again these are bundled in the engine wiring harness. Anyone recognize or have their notes or a link to a thread where this info is captured?
Thanks, Peter

Did you manage to figure out the first one?