Glow plug light blanking - need TDI guru

gerpeters

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI and 2003 Jetta TDI
I bought a 2002 Jetta TDI a month in half ago from a local dealer with 182,000KM - I'm the second owner and got the maintenance records - well maintained car - I know the previous owner - said that he always maintained the car well

Just recently the check engine light came on and the glow plug light is blanking (on for two days) - light out for three days - now they have been back on for two days again - no performance problems - runs and drives just fine even with lights on/blanking - the brake light switch was replace when I bought it a month and half ago under a recall - cruise works fine - lights are all working - brought it back to dealer for a check up - the dealer tells me the injector pump will have to be replaced - $2500 to $3000 job - I'm not sure if I can trust the dealer - it sounded a bit iffy - any advice? I'm looking for a trusted TDI guru in the Greater Toronto Area Ontario who could take a look at it for me :D
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
a blank GP light.

The pump issue is probably a fuel temp sensor. About US$50 to replace, but a dealer will not touch it since it's inside the pump.
 

ymz

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
There are a lot of us who have Vag-Com and will be glad to scan the car for you to get the exact code. Without that, we're only guessing...

That said, it could indeed be the fuel pump... As Weedeater said, often it's the fuel temperature sensor, but the dealers always will replace the pump in$tead... (could also be the engine speed sensor, the needle lift sender, the accelerator position sensor, and a couple of internal pump errors...)

Is there a warranty on the car ???? How's the idling... smooth or rough ??

Yuri.
 
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Borborygmi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Location
Cedar Park, TX
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Get yourself a VAG-COM cable and a notebook computer if you don't have one. I like the one with the USB interface and the dongle for newer computers. Throw some bucks at Ross, it is worth it. It isn't brain surgery, and is actually fun. You can monitor the fuel temperature in the timing section, and other places. If you want to keep the car and use it, I recommend learning about it and not depending on dealerships. They have been known to lie, in the same sense as gila monsters have been known to bite. There are some good mechanics who know the cars, though.
 

gerpeters

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI and 2003 Jetta TDI
Just drove the car tonight and now lights are out again - performance is great - idling is normal/smooth - No warranty on the car - Where can get the VAG-COM cable? Where can I get Ross? Is it software? I like to learn to use the program - don't trust the dealer to work on it - if I could find a TDI guru I think I would have an easier time to trust :D
 

wanders

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Location
Shennandoah Valley, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta GLS- Baltic Green
gerpeters said:
Just drove the car tonight and now lights are out again - performance is great - idling is normal/smooth - No warranty on the car - Where can get the VAG-COM cable? Where can I get Ross? Is it software? I like to learn to use the program - don't trust the dealer to work on it - if I could find a TDI guru I think I would have an easier time to trust :D
Here you go. http://www.ross-tech.com/
 

HammerYYZ

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Location
Canada
TDI
1901
If the light comes on again, or you want a trusted VW mechanic I would recommend you to Lorne Park Car Center. It is located in Mississauga. He in my opinon is the best and very honest mechanic in the GTA. Here is his particulars

Lorne Park Car Centre

Address : 2133 Royal Windsor Dr, Mississauga, ON L5J 1K5
Telephone : 905-823-8787

**Speak to Reto he is the owner and will personaly look at your car***
Hammer
 

gerpeters

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI and 2003 Jetta TDI
I had a scan done with a OBDII (On Board Diagnostics 2)
It came back with code P1563 but no description - can anyone tell me what it is?
 

alphaseinor

TDI Innovator Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Location
Denton, TX
TDI
'03 Jetta TDI 780,000 miles (totaled out), 01 Audi TT 225 Quattro 230,000 Miles (runs great!), 00 Cabreetle Beetle dash, ALH & MK4 harness Swap
QA adjuster, lower limit reached...

I would check for corrosion on the small connector to your ECU... if the car's running it's not the freaking pump!!!
 

jmcqueen

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta
P1562 Upper Limit Reached N-116 ~ Replace Pump?

Hi All:

I replaced the fuel temp sensor on my '03 ALH and got the P0182 code to clear no problem. Now I am getting a P1562 Upper Limit Reached code and my glow plug light is flashing along with a constantly lit CEL.

VW service manager says the Injection Pump needs to be replaced. At least that's what their scan is "telling" them to do. Here is some additional information that the service manager said:

1. Upper Impact Value is reading 3.6 ohms and should be reading
4.15 to 4.75 ohms
2. (didn't catch all of what he said)...Resistance Value 3.3 ohms...
diag instrux, "Injection Pump must be replaced" [from diag screen]

Based on what I have read here, I requested that the service manager have the tech pull both the IP and ECU connectors and thoroughly clean them and then re-check the values.

Am I going in the right direction with this and are the above values out of whack so as to cause the P1562 error? What is your honest opinion as to what I need to do?

Thanks in advance,
john
 

ymz

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
Where in Ohio are you???

There are a couple of TDI-Club experts towards Columbus who may be able to help. As you have found out, the only solution that dealers offer is to replace the whole pump... The Quantity Adjuster _can_ be replaced if you can find a good used one... A good TDI-Tech could possibly adjust something inside... but don't mention this to the dealer, as he'll think you're coming from Mars...

Yuri.
 

jmcqueen

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta
P1562 Upper Limit Reached N-116 ~ Replace Pump?

I am NW of Columbus about 20 miles. I really need to get this one resolved and am almost sure it is *not* the IP. Other info which might be helpful is that there was a minimal amount of rust on the top of the QA when I did the fuel temp sensor replacement.

j
 

alphaseinor

TDI Innovator Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Location
Denton, TX
TDI
'03 Jetta TDI 780,000 miles (totaled out), 01 Audi TT 225 Quattro 230,000 Miles (runs great!), 00 Cabreetle Beetle dash, ALH & MK4 harness Swap
gerpeters said:
Where is the ECU located?
Sorry I missed the post... The ECU is located under the plastic cover, under the windsheild wipers.... it's called the plenum.

it has two connectors... the smaller one goes to your injection pump.

I would clean the grounds while I was in there (wires connecting to terminals under the plenum).
 

jmcqueen

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta
P1562 Upper Limit Reached N-116 ~ Replace Pump?

thanks alpha. i have read that the IP is actually a pretty hearty piece of equipment. in addition to what i have already written, the service manager says that the 1st thing their techs to is to check the connections. based on what i have described below, is there a low/med/high probablility that this is a "simple" electrical issue that can be fixed without replacing the pump? as in, can i just clean the connectors and dope the pins up with some dielectric grease to remedy the problem?

i *really* need some input here.

thanks to you guys and this forum for all the insight.

j
 

Zalva

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2006
Location
Canada
TDI
2002 Golf TDI
gerpeters,

I don't remember the exact address.... but driving directions are something like this:

if you take Dufreen St and Finch Ave as intresection. Travel west on Finch twards Keel st. you'll see Alexdon Road, make a left (Frisco is located on that street).. at the end of the street there will be a stop sign, make a right on stop(Toro Rd) .. then first street make a left(Ceramic rd).then first stop make a left again and go to the end of the street. on your left hand side you'll see an impound yard. continue to go forward. on your left hand side there will be Units and on your right you'll see a fance.. You are looking for a unit with a sign "VW... AUDI" something.. it will be writen on the door in green i think.. Enter the door and ask for Atila(don't know how to spell his name, but he knows what he is doing!!!!)
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
It's not THAT hearty. Try running the wrong fluids through it and it turns into junk.

It is sensitive to any form of dirt (including the 'rust' you mentioned). I also have to ask: do you use or have you used biodiesel?
 

jmcqueen

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta
P1562 Upper Limit Reached N-116 ~ Replace Pump?

Hi:

Haven't run any BioD...yet. I bought the car used, without any service history related to the IP. It threw the P1562 one day after replacing the fuel temp sensor.
 

MyAvocation

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Location
Hoffman Estates, IL
TDI
2017 Passat SEL TSI
Regarding blinking GP light...

Are you certain ALL brake lights are working? Blinking glow plug light is typically due to burnd-out bulb and, defective or INCORRECTLY INSTALLED brake switch (very easy to not install correctly). I've installed 3 of them and only once did I get it right the first time.

If light(s) not working (or lit 24x7), simply remove the switch, pull the plunger rod back out, and re-install as instructed elsewhere on this site (don't try this without following the very specific procedure found here). If can't get it to work, VW warranties the part for 12 months.

Good luck -- especially with the pump issue.
Bob
 

jmcqueen

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta
yep, brake lights work great and don't come on intermittently with the ignition off. this is one of the first things i checked, hoping for an easy fix.

here's the progress so far. since the car runs just fine and has run fine since installing the new temp sensor, i performed the hammer mod on the QA housing. here are the results.

i scribed the left/right location on the middle housing to the lower housing for a reference point. i loosened the 3 torx bolts 1/2 turn. when i tapped the housing toward the passenger side approx. 2mm, the car wouldn't even start. so, i took it back to my scribe mark. car started fine. then i tapped the QA housing to the driver's side 1mm and tightened the housing back up. car started when i barely touched the key. surprised by this, i plugged my VAG-COM back in and was able to clear the 1562 code on the first attempt. good news...it stayed gone! read on...

i took the car out and put it through a torture test. turned it off. restarted. turned it off, then let the starter barely stumble it into running. burned rubber. easy start. smashed accelerator from a dead stop and smashed it while going 60...with 90 realized within a matter of a few seconds. basically, i did everything to get the engine back through an upper limit and to try to reduplicate the code. in my best attempts, i cannot get the engine to reproduce the P1562 code. and we all know this is a good thing. caveat...i was able to accomplish this on a warm engine. i will check it again after a few hours on a cold engine to verify the results. UPDATE: I tried to reduplicate the P1562 on a cold engine, but could not. Perhaps this will help others who are working with the hammer mod. BTW, I emailed the service tech at VW...not to rub his nose in it, but to let him know that the IPs are servicable even though VW trains them to think that they are not.

i will repost if the flashing glow plug light and the CEL return. otherwise, i am a happy camper at this point. :p

smiles,
john
 
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alphaseinor

TDI Innovator Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Location
Denton, TX
TDI
'03 Jetta TDI 780,000 miles (totaled out), 01 Audi TT 225 Quattro 230,000 Miles (runs great!), 00 Cabreetle Beetle dash, ALH & MK4 harness Swap
Awesome!!

Glad to know... in this case it's the sensor that was slightly off... not the wiring.
 

jmcqueen

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta
hi alpha:
the results were probably the result of blind luck. if i may ask, what exactly do you mean by the "sensor being slightly off"? do you mean the fuel temp sensor and where it is located left to right and front to back? just curious.

j
 

alphaseinor

TDI Innovator Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Location
Denton, TX
TDI
'03 Jetta TDI 780,000 miles (totaled out), 01 Audi TT 225 Quattro 230,000 Miles (runs great!), 00 Cabreetle Beetle dash, ALH & MK4 harness Swap
The QA housing slides a collar in the injection pump... when you "hammer" it back and forth, you are changing the electrical value on the QA housing based on its relative location to the collar.
 

jmcqueen

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta
thanks alpha for the info. so, when i am looking at my VAG-COM what screen do i look at to see what this value is. i read in another post that the value should be "3.4-3.6 or 4.0". is this correct? i am using 409.1 and am looking at the main Engine 01 screen. i have posted the essential of what the dealer gave me below. it appears that the value should be 4.15+ volts and 4.9 ohms only, but i don't know where to find it. i want to be able to verify the volts and ohms to confirm that everything is ok.

additional information. here's what the VAS5052 report said (the dealer actually provided a copy of this to me!):
************
Event memory 1:

~TDI engine control
0389060...
1,9l R4 EDC G000AG 4308
Coding 1
Dealer number--------

1 Fault(s) detected

17970 P1562 035
Quantity Adjuster - Upper Limit Attained

~Automatic transmission - 01M
0 Faults dectected

~ABS MK60
0 Faults detected

~Airbag - side/head-level etc....
0 Faults detected

~Instrument Cluster
0 Faults detected

~Diagnostic interface for data-BUS
0 Faults detected

~Conv. system with anti-theft warning system
0 Faults detected

~Radio Premium
0 Faults detected

~TDI Engine Control
4 Faults detected
Fault number:

16567 35 0 [nothing printed after this one]

17762 P1354 035
Modulating Piston Displacement Sensor Circuit Malfunction

17946 P1538 035
Engine Shutoff Solenoid
Open/Short to Ground

17971 P1563 035
Quantity Adjuster
Lower Limit Attained

STEPS COMPLETED
Diagnosis Start
Veh. ID
Veh. System Test
Veh. System Test completed 1
Fault Mem Contents
Test Plan 1
Function Test 1: KD2329_1C_9M-ALH_2_0601_66
Injection Pump - Quantity Adjuster mechanism incorrectly set
Test Plan 2
Veh. system test completed 2
Function Test
Function Test 2: SYS____9c____1_0504_11_Diagnoseprotokoll_senden
Function Test
Function Test 3: SYS01_____1_0605_11_Datenlesen_IUMPR

TEST PLAN 1:
01- Engine electronics - (17970) Quantity Adjuster Upper Limit Attained. Injection pump - quantity adjuster mechanism incorrectly set; N146 - Quantity Adjuster

TEST PLAN 2:
01 - Injection Pump - quantity adjuster mechanism incorrectly set

FOR TEST 1 (THE GOOD STUFF!)
Plug diagnostic connector into the veh.
Switch ignition on
Read Data Block
Signal - This test measures impact values of the quantity adjuster in both the upper and lower region.
Press DONE
Signal: Voltage for upper impact is: 3.66 volts and is not within the specified range of 4.15...4.74 volts.

FOR TEST 2 Resistance of QA and modulating pis
Disconnect 10-pin harness connector for FUEL Temp Sensor (harness connector to QA control of IP)
Signal - Resistance measurement of U/R/D measuring lead (+) connected Connector, pump side Contact 1 COM measuring
lead (-) connected Connector, pump side Contact 2
Test Instruments - Resistance measurement U/R/D measuring lead (+) connected Connector, pump side Contact 1 COM
measuring lead (-) connected Connector, pump side Contact 2 Target value OK: 4.9...7.5 Ohm
Signal: Resistance value is 3.3 ohms
Fuel injection pump must be replaced since this value cannot be changed. End of Test!
************
 
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gerpeters

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI and 2003 Jetta TDI
This is what I have done so far
I checked the small connector on the ECU - could not see any corrosion - unplugged it and plugged back in - also cleaned the grounds - I then cleared the code (P1563) - the lights did not come on for almost two weeks - I thought I had the problem fixed - yesterday the lights came back on - the car run like a charm - I think it is an electrical problem - I don't know what else to try - any more advice?
 

gerpeters

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI and 2003 Jetta TDI
Zalva,
Brought my car to V.I.N. today - Atila is telling me that I have a wiring problem after a quick check up - I will bring it back to him in a few weeks when he has time to look at it and then I'll report on here about the problem – he seems to be a trustwhorly TDI guru – thx Zalva
 

gerpeters

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI and 2003 Jetta TDI
Update after 2 years and a few months....Atila V.I.N never found a wiring problem but concluded that it had to do with the fuel pump. He told me to drive as long is it works. I have driven it now over two years with the check engine light on and P1563 code. It had 182,000km and now has 272,000km and still working great.
 
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