My high power recipe for an alh?
Well i have 2x compound TDI's, and few other TDI's including one with 2260, ive had 3 different 2260 build cars, 1756vk, BV43, 4 different compound setups, and helped doing S356V build (in our garage), many other 2260vk builds, and tuned hundreds of these.
BiTDI #1:
HE500WG (HX55). WG only controlled to be opened with exhaust pressure, doesnt open when laying on it.
GTB2056VZK. 38mm WG. Electronic Hella turbo actuator. Tubular 38mm manifold. 3.5" exhaust pipe.
Interstage cooled, afterstage cooled. 130pd intake, 2,5" boost pipes. 6 bar map sensor. Clutch kit.
Ported head. Stock valves. R2 cams1 10.2mm. Tight valve springs. arp bolts
Chinese rods, 130pd pistons and crank. Enwidened piston bowls for lower comp. valve cuts.
11mm OEM with SOI travel mod. Surge tank. 10mm feed lines. 2.7Biturbo intank fuel pump. regulated to 20psi. Fuel cooler front mounted, before pump, and aftermarket filter setup. Case pressure raised to 15-17bars.
Gibonta .320 nozzles, to be replaced with Jarod's .340 in coming days. Edge filters removed from the injector bodies. Raised pop pressures.
20bar devilsown WMI kit with 300cc interstage nozzle and 900cc afterstage nozzle.
Power estimate + 400hp at crank. money estimate 2-3k USD
This was build like 3 years ago, and i wanted to have another too, so now i build second one:
BiTDI #2:
OEM 10mm pump. H-flox .341, 10mm feed lines. No intank pump.
HX52 + GTB2260VZK, Hella electrical actuator. 5" hoodstack 130pd intake, 2.5" boost pipes. 6 bar map sensor. Clutch kit.
Handported head. tight valvepsrings, OEM SDI cam that has seen 700k kms. original valves. 150PD headboltds.
Pistons bowls enwidened. Unopened bottomend.
Only afterstage cooled.
Power estimate + 300hp at crank. Money spend around 800-900 USD.
Bottomline? what ive learned?
1. Always opt for hella electric actuator when doing big turbo. I dont know of any reasoning of converting to vacuum. Vacuum conversions are based on old information.
2. Always opt for OEM GTB/GTC/GTD turbos. Dont fall into hybrid turbos unless you have very good reasonings.
3.Garrett turbos mentioned above can be welded to stock cast manifold, even monkey can do that with the equipment and fillers available today.
4. 11mm pump is only needed really after 300hp, but it starts to help even at 200hp mark.
5. Add wmi the last. Egt problems are because of wrong turbo sizing really. WMI not needed with proper turbo sizing and medium power 300-400hp.
6. Boost isnt an issue or danger to engine. Other parameters are. low AFR, high EGT and EMP are engine killers that lead to higher PCP and higher engine temps.
How to combat those issues then?
Well, This is how i have done all my daily cars lately. CHEAP, RELIABLE, FAST, AND GOOD MPG.
1st take head out. make sure its flat. maintenance the valve guides and seals. lap the valves.
Port the cylinder head, you can even if you thought, or someone else told you cant. Just press 1mm deep holes everywhere. then connect those holes. just use aluminium bit, steel ones don't work. Every little bit of porting helps. Gasket match the exhaust and intake. Install SDI camshaft. Get upgraded valve springs, the stock double valve springs work, if you upgrade the outer ones, with either AHU, or other. Use rotary tool /cut step drill / router whatever. To lower the compression ratio with enwidened bowls. These engines came with 19.5 CR, new engines have 16:1. Now you are able to run the boost required, without risking the connection rods, or headgasket.
Install 3-hole gasket. Install 150pd bolts. install big nozzles. they can always be tuned down in tune. but small nozzles cannot be tuned up. race520's etc are ancient nozzles, we are past 2010 already. Get atleast .300 if you want to party. Bigger pop pressures clear the idle smoke. no problem dailying such. Weld chosen turbo to the stock manifold, use Hella actuator, front mounted intercooler and atleast 2" boost pipes. after these things you can concider going to 11mm pump, or stay at 10mm, whatever. NEVER BUY 3bar map. Theres absolutely no reason doing that. its always 4bar or 6bar map.
I may have missed some obvious things.
The list of turbos ive gathered is listed under the "turbo technical database" in this forum.
My tuner says three things break engines: Boost, fuel, and revs. Too much of any of those and you'll bend rods, lift the head, or worse. I ran 26 PSI boost with PP502s and an 11mm pump and a 6000 RPM tune for 120K miles on a stock ALH block. Car ran great, but when it was time for a timing belt we found ovaled bores, very worn valve guides, and bent rods. None were extreme enough to be noticeable in use, except for increased oil consumption and smoke at startup. I believe that setup was right at the edge of a stock ALH's strength.
PP502's and 26psid edge of ALH's strenght? mate i run double that boost and double the nozzle size on unopened 400k kms ALH.
The main reason for the BHW lower is because it's slightly more displacement, but the big thing is the larger crank journals which should hold up to the high power better. The BHW came with 134 hp stock.
Either way you won't want to trust stock rods for that much power.
BHW bottomend adds 3.9% of displacement. Its nothing.
Indeed, the main things about the BHW bottomend is larger crank, and beefier rods, and i think on top of my head that the pistons are way better.
IMHO once you pass the VNT17/180WHP territory the costs vs rewards really takes a dive. Also IMO past 200HP an ALH is not going to be street friendly. All your power is going to be past 3,000 RPM. For a fun daily torque is what you want, not HP.
Lol. 80-120kmh on stock chassis A4B5in 2,2 seconds with GTB2260VZK, try that with VNT17.
That green line is STOCK ASV 110hp VE engine Power graph.
That red line is GTB2260VZK on same engine.
Tell me how it doesnt have torque? Give me VNT17 dyno graphs and ill plot them over the 2260 dyno graph, goodbye the biased opinion of vnt17's "torque"
Just for comparision, i found malonetunings post about not sure whetever its VNT17 or VNT17 hybrid, but whatever, take a look:
The biggest thing with these diesels is that even if the peak horsepower number is a bit lower than the jeep, your area under the curve is COMPLETELY different.
Although that AMC made 190HP @ 4750, it made 225lb-ft @ 4000, which translates to 171.4HP. Lets take idpart's ALH VNT17/22 dyno for argument's sake (yes I know, different motor, different turbo, but close enough for the sake of an example)
It crests 150WHP @ 2700, which is easily what the AMC makes at 4000. If we assume the AMC makes 225lb-ft @ 2700 (it doesn't), that translates to 115HP. At the crank. Assuming 15% drivetrain loss on a FWD car, and assuming the AMC actually makes peak torque at 2700, that's a
50% power increase at 2700RPM over stock.
+50% torque/power increase over stock 90HP at 2700rpm with VNT17? cute. GTB2260VZK enters the chat with OVER +120% INCREASE OVER STOCK 110HP at 2700rpm, which translates to EVEN MORE, if we take 90hp as baseline. This is tested, this is tuned, this is dynoed, this isnt bullshit biased information based on ancient beliefs, this is TRUTH.
Imo under 200hp ALH isnt street friendly. With all other cars on the streets having more than that from the factory (literally all family diesels come with 250hp now) Torque might make you feel like you were in racecar, pushing you in the seat for 1 second at a time. HP is what keeps you in the seat. Since when did you need thewheel spinnig torque on FWD anyway? i can spin all 4 tires from launch with my "no Tq all HP builds", which btw have more torque than the best VNT17 build.
the cost vs reward terrotitory is completely depended on who u listen to. Listen to Darkside and you end up having 180hp for 3 grand. Listen to malone and you end up having 160hp for 5 grand. Listen to us who have tested the weak points over years, listen to
@p0wer, listen to all the guys that have made it and know the secrets.
Once you are in the tubular manfold and GTB territory you better be ready to drop some serious $$$.
Mate in my town has 432hp on stock cast manifold VE. Dont really get the tubular reference. Its not needed, nobody has ever found out the limit of stock manifold. Why is the whole TDI community about changing unrelated parts? swapping items without data is just guessing.
After looking at the EMP charts on the (old technology) VNT17 or worse 22/17 hybrid, The newer generations flow better, lowering EMP (pumping losses). Not that they can't survive the high EMP (as you indicate). Honeywell claimed double digit % flow increase for the GTD series over the GT, that's all I would run for small turbos. I thought I read you think you bent your rods searching for low end torque? Bent rods would oval your cylinders I assume.
You sir are absolutely right. World would be better place if VNT17's and those hybrids didnt exists to limit the potential of these engines.
Aren't these basically 1.8T blocks that should have no problem at 7000rpm? Add a HX35-40 as a compound with the GTD20/22 (or vnt15/17) when needed. I think you would run out of fuel if you had the intercooler space (also pumping loss aid basically).
Again, absolutely right, but compounding small turbines is problematic. I stand saying that vnt15or vnt17 cannot be compounded with any results.
GTB/GTD 20 / 22 compounds with hx40? im in, been there, and done that.
Also hx35 is too small turbo for compounding a TDI. Creates more issues than what problems it solves. Running out of fuel is desireable. Thats actually what you want on these cars. Thats what i do for the track cars.
400hp on a 1z with no girdle plate?
I call bs
I have never reached the point of needing gridles on VE pump tdi, whats the limit then? we are still in search for it.
Turbo-wise I was hoping the 2260vklr kit from Darkside would be a good choice.
If youre happy with 300hp to the crank then sure. Even then its not very safe power. I really dislike the parameters of the turbo after 250hp. That being said i have tuned one to 310+ hp.
everyone refuses to understand that it is torque (cylinder pressure) that breaks parts
400 hp at 5500 rpm is 382 ft/lb
382 ft/lb at 2000 rpm is 145 hp
so essentially, yes european power numbers are different than US ones in that they're further to the right on the dyno chart
put a little tiny baby turbo on something that will move more air than you can use (you do use your torque limit maps, right? you should) at low engine speed, and is choking the engine out at the rpm that you can actually start to sneak more power through the little lightweight engine that cannot survive truck engine torque
or use a reasonable sized turbo that will breathe in the RPM range that you can actually make power without breaking things
You are absolutely right, again.
No, 0.32-0.36mm.
No. You won´t need girdle, IP mods, rods, and 3 grands into trans. Pistons could be also grinded on their place
I needed 4000-5000$
Yes there are.
No. I wouldn´t use tiny 250-300hp turbo for 400hp build if it´s not smaller one for compound.
BRM manifold.
Use stock rods and pistons.
I do 40-50mpg with ~400hp 1Z all the time.
Zero benefits. Using BHW lower end with ALH gasket, you will get head gasket problems more easily. Use ALH stock bottom.
Head porting and good cam (not synonym for big) which works fine with turbo(s) choosen for the project is the key, polishing cams is not. I´ve used AFN manifolds with welded new flange, and they are OK. You could have bit benefits from tubular or other OEM models though depending turbo and cam.
Exactly. Always custom tune whether you change anything. Always.
No. Absolutely use meth and water for gaining power and engine life!
No. That´s the point where costs vs rewards takes a huge leap after tossing VNT17 to trash.
This is quite much 100% crap. After 200hp ALH is yet coming street friendly. For example 2060/2260 sized turbo is so small that there are hardly difference for alh stock on low end. IF there would be all power after 3000rpm is not bad when you rev up to 6500-7000rpm, but it does not need to be like that. Although, i can´t get why to idealize 1000-3000rpm when you can have real power after 3000 or 5000rpm when talking tuned (or daily, as me) engine. I just can´t get it. I would not EVER change my HX35 single turbo engine to VNT17 engine on street car.
Why people always want waste money for all cam polishings and stuff where are zero benefits for real performance? You need only necessary. Port head and grind cam, put it on place, weld new flange to exhaust manifold and install turbo, make pipings and install injectors and pump. Tune it properly that EGT, EMP, torque and rpm will be on safe side and send it. Don´t think it too complicated. Don´t repair things which works.
Everything said here is right. i liked the "No. That´s the point where costs vs rewards takes a huge leap after tossing VNT17 to trash." part the most. Those awful turbos are braking any development.
Math is fun.
