Gettin owned in Autocross-TDI that slow?

[golftdibrad]

I have a upsolute chip, no muffler, K&N, 16X7 in wheeles with Yokohmma Avid V4's(a very hard tire). Besides the fact that at the end of the day the golf TDI is still an ecnomy car and my tires feel like they constanly have sand on them- is the car that 'slow'? What are you guys doing in comparison to the rest of the field? I just had my fifth event and PAXed dead last. I'm not that bad of driver-no cones on the day and no DNF's. Here is a link to the event results.
http://www.delta-scca.org/04Delta_results/Nov7/nov7_class.htm
http://www.delta-scca.org/04Delta_results/Nov7/NOV7_paxed.htm
http://www.delta-scca.org/04Delta_results/Nov7/pics__page_1.htm
event pics. Thats me in the hat making trophies.

Alot of autoxers are hanging out on this website http://www.autoxforum.com/ Right now its 80% people from Southen Louisana, but check it out and tell your fellow drivers- it grows daily and is a good site.

Thanks for your input guys.

-Brad

 

[golftdibrad]

TTT

 

[TDIMeister]

Lose the tires as a first step. Then, just invest in more seat time or professional performance driving lessons. It is often said that autocrossing is 80% driver, 20% car (the actual percentages vary depending on who you talk to, but it's still overwhelmingly on the court of the driver). I would go further to state that autocrossing is 80% driver, 10% tires (probably even more), balance car. In other words, the car -- and whatever mods that have been done to it -- are nearly meaningless, especially in the hands of an amateur driver.

Case in point: The results in this thread. Note the cluster of cars that did worse than the two TDI entries (another TDIClub member and myself), often with a huge advantages in horsepower and/or weight and/or all-wheel-drive (Golf R32, Passat W8, Corrado G60, Audi TT and S4, VR6s and GTIs

).

Moral of the story: IT'S NOT YOUR CAR THAT'S SLOW.

Edit: By the way, if you actually look at the standings by class rather than the overall view of all entrants, Justin (Oldpoopie) and I placed first and second in our class, respectively.

 

[golftdibrad]

Thanks for the reply. I knew I probally just needed more practice, but wanted a second opinion. I'm a poor college student so replacing my new tires is out of the question. I'm offically hooked on autocross so i'll just have to practice by making all the events i can. One recent event it rained so there was only like 30 people there. 8 runs! Woho!

At least I can always rub in the fuel mileage even if i suck at driving.

Thanks again,
Brad

 

[TDIMeister]

Falken Azenis tires are not too expensive and are the favourite among autocrossers that are still DOT-compliant and decently durable and streetable in a variety of weather conditions. Kumho Victoracers are another popular tire in the autocross scene but I have had less than positive experiences with Kumho tires, but YMMV.

Beyond that you'll be going into the realm of R-compound tires of which you need a dedicated set for the track. Yokohama has the A008-R, then of course you have numerous other options and brands, but the budget may be above what you are willing to spend.

My car is a 99.9% daily driver and 0.1% autocross/other motorsport, so the latter hardly comes into consideration for tire selection. However, I got Yokohama Parada Spec-2s two years ago and I think they're great for the money as a summer daily street tire and for the occasional track/autocross/dragstrip outings.

 

[Stealth TDI]

Hi,

First, lose the tires. I was ALWAYS at the limit of adhesion with my MXV4s. Now I run Falken Azenis Sports and really like the difference. The tires are predictable and wear well. In fact, they're my daily drivers. Since I'm a sedate driver on the road, the tires are wearing well. Having lost one of my all-season wheels in a "trailer incident," I'm going to risk driving the Azenis Sports during the winter as well.

I can't imagine snow/ice being a huge problem in NO, LA. Perhaps this is an option for you, too.

Second, you don't have enough events under your belt to really be a threat to anyone else's driving skills. I have seven events and I'm slowly creeping up through the positions. I recently, just after a driving school, outdrove someone who had consistently ran faster than I. Seat time is paramount. Now that I've been off the course for two months, I imagine I'll have to start all over again.

I'll do the Novice School in March to sharpen my skills. Then hope to take a few names in 2005.

Finally, an SM TDI simply WILL NOT BE COMPETITIVE on a PAX level, especially on street tires. My best standing in raw times has crept up from near-last to about the top 60%. However, adding PAX always knocks me down about six spots. Mod for mod, an SM gasser will outperform an SM TDI. Better put, there's no way in Hell my TDI will hang with a well-sorted 300+ hp M3 with an experienced driver. It ain't happening. Therefore, my goal is to compare raw times, improve my times/skills, and HAVE FUN. Should I become more serious, I'll try some R-compounds. Should be become even MORE serious, I'll get myself into a stock car where I can race in the more-level Stock categories.

Good Luck,

Scott

 

[golftdibrad]

Thanks for the reply. At the end of the day i'm out there for one reason-to have fun. I just don't want to be the slowest person out there...That way I can tell some ricer 'you got beat by a DIESEL'! HA.Thanks for the pointers and advise...Too bad about having to run SM or STR..I'm like 4 seconds off the pack's times...

-Brad

 

[golftdibrad]

I guess I'm improving... 11-21-results
PAX results

Thanks aginn for the tips guys.

-Brad
'Twas a blast. I also had a time of 43.56 on a fun run, but I picked up a cone on that one...I'm on a public computer or I'd post a pic of my car-It got real dirty!
Here is the thread for the 'aftermath' on Autoxforum

 

[HI_Racing]

Have to agree with most below... More seat time will certainly move you up the list. A faster car is not a replacement for experience. (Don't mean to offend, btw)

Here's a link to our local (DFW) Porsche club's results in 2000 when I took the Jetta TDI out instead of the Corrado. I'm in class "OG" near the bottom. Maverick Porsche Club Time Trial Results

The Porsche club time trails are higher speed (80-100mph) than auto-x and you run all your laps without stopping. As you can see I was faster than several "faster" cars -- 944T, 911SC, Boxster, 911S, and two 914's. My TDI is all 100% stock. I was using the Corrado wheels with 2 year old Yokohama AVS's. There's no way I should have been faster than those cars. It just boiled down to experience level. It sure did make everyone there cringe at the next event when I told them I got 38MPG on that tank. And that was letting it idle with the a/c on *all* day!

One thing I noticed is that left foot braking while applying throttle is VERBOTEN! It's just like taking your foot off the throttle when the brake is applied even if your right foot is on the floor. Certainly makes it harder to correct entering the corner too fast!!

Oh, yeah... One other thing.. Take all advice from rear-wheel-drive experts/instructors/etc with a grain of salt. To make a FWD car competitive you have to drive it in ways that would cause a RWD car to spin -- trail braking, etc. I had the Corrado at an event where Bobby Archer showed up and told me he could "fix" all the Corrado's FWD "problems" by installing coil-overs. I said, "Really? How many FWD cars have you driven?" That was the end of that conversation. We all know Bobby Archer can drive the heck out of a Viper, but he didn't know diddly about FWD.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Stealth TDI]

Hi,

One thing I noticed is that left foot braking while applying throttle is VERBOTEN! It's just like taking your foot off the throttle when the brake is applied even if your right foot is on the floor. Certainly makes it harder to correct entering the corner too fast!!

It's actually worse than simply not being able to left-foot brake. It also seems to disable the fuel for a full-second or more after taking your foot off the brake. Although I don't left-foot brake, I had considered wiring in a switch that allows me to quickly disable that brake switch so I can get into the fuel quicker. I decided to test it first. It turns out the switch comes out quite quickly with a quarter-twist. I simply remove the switch before tech, then reinstall it after my last run.

I can only think of two notes:

1) This mod will be illegal on a road course where you must have functional brake lights. I'd do a work-around by switching in a circuit that uses the rear fog lamps as brake lights on a course that requires brake lights.

2) Running the car for excessive periods with the brake circuit disconnected will throw a Glow-Plug fault (in my A3), perhaps a MIL in newer cars. This fault cleared immediately upon reinstalling my switch.

Take Care,

Scott

 

[05TDIPDHappy]

I second the thought that a FWD VW must be driven significantly different than the RWD counterparts.
Granted I haven't been autocrossing for a few years, I did take a class before I went out to try it on my own. The instructor assigned to me gave me a "show you how" ride in my 87 Golf. Holly $#it batman, I had no idea that car could brake that hard and that late and still cut a turn without the heavy front end push. Getting back on the gas was something that was almost emidiate following the initial turn in. Cotrol the push with trottle and make sure and tap the brake (older cars that don't have the Rear Brake bias that the new ones have) to get the weight shift to the front just prior to turn in to each corner and you can get the power down much sooner than otherwise.

A VW Golf is a formidable AutoX car when handeled properly. I believe that the torque on the TDI would be an asset as long as the rev's were kept in the maxt torque range and not below. But maybe the engineers working the computer programing have taken away some of the ability for you to do what you want with the power and break systems.... ARG!!!!

One word of note, to get better it takes practice and a helpfull person looking on to keep you improving and pushing you. The good part about it is that Practice is always FUN!

You will get better with time.
Cheers
Erik

 

[golftdibrad]

Hi,

One thing I noticed is that left foot braking while applying throttle is VERBOTEN! It's just like taking your foot off the throttle when the brake is applied even if your right foot is on the floor. Certainly makes it harder to correct entering the corner too fast!!

It's actually worse than simply not being able to left-foot brake. It also seems to disable the fuel for a full-second or more after taking your foot off the brake. Although I don't left-foot brake, I had considered wiring in a switch that allows me to quickly disable that brake switch so I can get into the fuel quicker. I decided to test it first. It turns out the switch comes out quite quickly with a quarter-twist. I simply remove the switch before tech, then reinstall it after my last run.

I can only think of two notes:

1) This mod will be illegal on a road course where you must have functional brake lights. I'd do a work-around by switching in a circuit that uses the rear fog lamps as brake lights on a course that requires brake lights.

2) Running the car for excessive periods with the brake circuit disconnected will throw a Glow-Plug fault (in my A3), perhaps a MIL in newer cars. This fault cleared immediately upon reinstalling my switch.

Take Care,

Scott

I've been using my right foot to heal and toe 'brake' for about a year. Now, I don't really brake but I blip the throttle to match the revs on the engine with the transmission while the clutch is depressed. Moral? Clutch+brake+throttle is ok with the computer (as long as its not heavy braking). I've learned how far I can push the cpu without it getting pissed off at me and being like 'hey-you, stop that!' It helped me at my last autox b/c I was able to match the revs when downshifting to keep the motor in the powerband.

I, too have considered wiring in a switch to take the computer out the loop for autox, but i want it to look stock. I was think of putting it where the heated seat swith goes.

-Brad

 

[Pat Dolan]

We host a major regional event each summer at our club, and this summer some of the top times on day one were all on R-compoounds for a Super 7 replica (Hyabusa power), a really well prepared 911, and a 1.8T Jetta with street springs, struts and bars - otherwise not only stock, but had the child seats removed for the event! This was not on a tight course, it was a very fast layout (I was running a 9 HP Honda kart, and couldnt get past the top three - due to fast bits). Now, I know a TDI is not a 1.8T, but for crying out loud, a stock 1.8T is not a 1000 lb Hyabusa or a pumped up 911 either!

Moral of the story is an A4 of any kind is a very, very good handling car, and even the massive power-to-weight deficit CAN be made up by driver skill alone.

Keep practising, you will only get better (and have more fun).

Pat

 

[vwrobert51]

Hey check out this web sight Mauiscca.org yes its real.

 

[peter pyce]

We host a major regional event each summer at our club, and this summer some of the top times on day one were all on R-compoounds for a Super 7 replica (Hyabusa power), a really well prepared 911, and a 1.8T Jetta with street springs, struts and bars - otherwise not only stock, but had the child seats removed for the event! This was not on a tight course, it was a very fast layout (I was running a 9 HP Honda kart, and couldnt get past the top three - due to fast bits). Now, I know a TDI is not a 1.8T, but for crying out loud, a stock 1.8T is not a 1000 lb Hyabusa or a pumped up 911 either!

Moral of the story is an A4 of any kind is a very, very good handling car, and even the massive power-to-weight deficit CAN be made up by driver skill alone.

Keep practising, you will only get better (and have more fun).

Pat

The post of the week, Pat! I hope you are not going to edit it, so I can post a link to it from time to time on the vortex suspension forums

 

[golftdibrad]

If nothing else, I'm consistant. Keeping up with people on my level pretty good anyways Class results . I ran In STU, and since I beat someone, Guess I gotta go to SM so I won't get protested.

 

[TDIMeister]

Look on the bright side: you beat most of the entries in the Corvette Challenge class. More reason that power is nothing without control.

 

[golftdibrad]

Didn't even notice that...you made my day!

-Brad

 

[resinguy]

"I had the Corrado at an event where Bobby Archer showed up and told me he could "fix" all the Corrado's FWD "problems" by installing coil-overs. I said, "Really? How many FWD cars have you driven?" That was the end of that conversation. We all know Bobby Archer can drive the heck out of a Viper, but he didn't know diddly about FWD."

Actually, Bobby Archer cut his racing teeth over 25 years ago on FWD Renaults and other FWD cars. Look it up.

 

[Lug_Nut]

I'm glad I kept reading before posting about Bobby, and brother Tommy, Archer racing the snot out of R9 Renaults years ago. If I recall correctly the Alliance notchback was always faster than the Encore hatch, regardless of who was driving which.
And didn't they begin with snowmobiles before going to the Renault Cup?
At the demise of the Renault Cup they stayed with Chrysler / Plymouth / Jeep / Eagle and went truck racing with 2WD Jeeps (Commanches?). They were somehow able to get the tech inspectors to overlook the Jeeps' "damaged" front beam axles that somehow gave the front tires the desired amount of camber.
Renault left the US scene. Eagle flew the coop. Plymouth has set sail, Chrysler is now run from Germany, but the Archers still race on.

 

[golftdibrad]

Wow. Just cleaned my MAF, feels like i have 20 extra ponies. The last few events all the vets say i have a good line and that my car control is good, just not much power. Mabye that wiil change...I'll keep this thread updated.

 

[TDikook]

Hey brad, I just saw your results, you ever been on the San Fran? good old SSN-711

 

[golftdibrad]

nope...i didn't know the navy let people on nuclear submarines. whe is it at?

 

[TDikook]

I knew a cook an there with the same name, he is also from Lousiana. wondering if it was just a coincidence... it was. hate to be too sarcastic, but everyne on the Submarine is a person, they're called sailors.

just messing with ya. its in a bad spot. it ran aground a month or so ago. got real messed up.

 

[Sprunch]

I've been Auto Crossing on and off for over twenty years now and at the end of the day if my last time is faster than my first and second it's a good day.
Remember, it's all about handeling and skill, horsepower comes into play later, much later.

 

[golftdibrad]

I'm getting better. Just did a beginers school and while i was slower than everone else, my times improved the most over the day. Once I get used to my car and become a better driver i'm going to upgrade my brakes and suspension and get some 'Street' race tires (read: falkins or kuhmos)

 

[Stealth TDI]

Hi,

I've been Auto Crossing on and off for over twenty years now and at the end of the day if my last time is faster than my first and second it's a good day.

My third run is usually fastest. My fourth runs often slips a bit because I'm trying to ride the edge and sometimes "slip." We'll see how this season treats me.

BTW, I highly recommend the Falkens!

Scott

 

[turbobuilder]

On my second event of the season, the first was the driving school, I was 2.5 seconds behind the fastest street tire car, a highly moded Sti. Of course my car is highly moded as well, so I too must run SM. I was very happy with that result as my car is essentially one wheel drive with an open diff. I just spin out of every corner, the car won't hook up. That is changing very soon. My tire treadwear is a 300, those guys are running as low as 60. Some new skins, a LSD, and those Sti's will have to work for it. Again its all seat time, but I'm having so much fun. It's good to see others racing the TDI

Also I put in a Corbeau Race seat and a Crow harness, that helped a lot. I could focus on driving and not on hanging on.