German Lawmakers Ban Internal Combustion Engines by 2030

oilhammer

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Only when an EV can go 300 miles on a charge and recharge to 100% in 10 minutes or less. EV's are niche vehicles good for local in-town and short distance trips only. Oh, there will be a few longer distance ones like the Tesla S but they will be pretty much restricted to Interstate routs between major cities where Tesla has Supercharger stations.

European nations don't have the long distances that Canada and these United States have plus they were able to completely rebuild their rail infrastructure after World War II so EVs will have a larger market base.
The EU is already by and large OK with smarter choices in transportation anyway. One of the best selling models there is the Golf, followed closely by the Focus. Almost all of their trucks and vans are diesels, most with smaller yet plenty capable ones at that, bolted to manual gearboxes. A far cry from the F150 and Silverados we have here.

Just like our adherence to the outdated fractional English way of measuring things, the US will probably hang on to our cars until the bitter end. I suspect "banning" is a bad word to use anyway. A better idea would be to scale back the sales of pump sucking behemoths at first. Obviously the current gas guzzler taxes, CAFE standards, etc. are not making more people make better choices. I wish people would make better choices, though, on their own, because I despise when gov't entities force things upon you. Since they rarely ever favor everyone.
 

romad

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The EU is already by and large OK with smarter choices in transportation anyway. One of the best selling models there is the Golf, followed closely by the Focus. Almost all of their trucks and vans are diesels, most with smaller yet plenty capable ones at that, bolted to manual gearboxes. A far cry from the F150 and Silverados we have here.

Just like our adherence to the outdated fractional English way of measuring things, the US will probably hang on to our cars until the bitter end. I suspect "banning" is a bad word to use anyway. A better idea would be to scale back the sales of pump sucking behemoths at first. Obviously the current gas guzzler taxes, CAFE standards, etc. are not making more people make better choices. I wish people would make better choices, though, on their own, because I despise when gov't entities force things upon you. Since they rarely ever favor everyone.
Yet diesels are being banned in favor of EVs. Remember that most European countries have never gotten over their belief in a strong, central, all-controlling government. The main "isms" of the 20th Century were just more extreme versions of this mind-set. BTW, these United States broke away from that and tried something different, but unfortunately starting in 1861 the national government began moving back towards the European governmental concept.
 

turbovan+tdi

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This was brought up in the EV thread but if the UK does do it, they will be in deep do do, their grid will not be able to keep up plus how can they ship supply's?
 

turbobrick240

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1861? Ah, the good ol' days of iron men and wooden ships. When men were men, and slaves were slaves. :eek:
Politics aside, it will be the economics that will eventually bring EV's to America's driveways.
 

pkhoury

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Only when an EV can go 300 miles on a charge and recharge to 100% in 10 minutes or less.
300 miles on a charge? Make it 600 miles on a charge that takes 10 minutes, with a vehicle cost of $30K or less, and I'm interested.
 

romad

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300 miles on a charge? Make it 600 miles on a charge that takes 10 minutes, with a vehicle cost of $30K or less, and I'm interested.
:D I had originally written 600 miles but changed it to a more realistic 300 for a general average.
 

James & Son

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Automated battery exchange. Very simple. It would be like a drive through. More like an Indianapolis pit stop, but slightly slower, on major highways for sure. I know the concept has been around for some time now. Would make sense for the America's I think.
 

turbovan+tdi

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Automated battery exchange. Very simple. It would be like a drive through. More like an Indianapolis pit stop, but slightly slower, on major highways for sure. I know the concept has been around for some time now. Would make sense for the America's I think.
And how much will that cost? Think of all the pollution building these station's and battery's, :D
 

turbovan+tdi

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romad

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nwdiver

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Intersting. But lets see how they hold up in the real world.
Pretty well as it turns out. There are already A LOT of large electric vehicles that have been doing very well for years or even decades. They just used an onboard diesel generator instead of a battery. Tesla has had some issues with their cars but almost none with the battery.

The plan was to have both. The Superchargers would be free and the swap station would be the equivalent cost of petrol. As it turns out most people wanted to eat lunch after driving 2-3 hours and why not save $30 by charging instead of swapping since you're gonna be there anyway.... So the swap program was nixed due to lack of interest.
 
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turbovan+tdi

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Pretty well as it turns out. There are already A LOT of large electric vehicles that have been doing very well for years or even decades. They just used an onboard diesel generator instead of a battery. Tesla has had some issues with their cars but almost none with the battery.
Ok, lol, so they used a diesel generator. The irony here is screaming. :D
 

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Ok, lol, so they used a diesel generator. The irony here is screaming. :D
Still using an electric motor ;)

A BEV 40 ton truck would have made it 30' 20 years ago. The Tesla semi should have ~300 miles of range which is surprising sufficient for most trucks. Most cargo is sent long distance by train these days... I have a friend that runs a trucking business carry water for the oilfield. Most of his trucks don't travel >60 miles/day AND two of his biggest expenses are fuel and engine maintenance.
 

atc98002

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Automated battery exchange. Very simple. It would be like a drive through. More like an Indianapolis pit stop, but slightly slower, on major highways for sure. I know the concept has been around for some time now. Would make sense for the America's I think.
Biggest issue I see with this is for it to truly be affordable and accessible, the batteries for all the different makes and models would need to be standardized. Unfortunately, I doubt that would ever happen. :p
 

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shorter distances

Many European countries could feasibly have no NEW ICE vehicles going into service. Maybe hybrids will bridge the gap, but Germany is probably trying to be a leader on the idea.

North America and lots of other countries are just too big. The USA spans territory, like China, Russia, India, Australia, Canada. Not realistic at all in places where people have to go 60 miles or more to get to a store, or WORK!
 

mr_y82

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We live in Trump's America.... YEEHAW!

Actually, in this case, it's called 'planning'. It could also be called facing reality.
Germany lacks much oil but is adding renewable energy at a very fast pace.
Germany is the economic engine powering Europe because of long term planning
that has allowed companies there to build some of the best products on Earth
while adhering to some of the tightest environmental standards anywhere.
Germany does this while providing free education and health care for it's people
and accepting many millions of refugees from eastern Europe and beyond.
Not to mention, the trains run on time and there are a lot of them, too.
Oh yeah, the article states that it is a ban on new IC engines, so I'd guess
there will be a lot of well-maintained old ones on the road for many more years.
I have no interest whatsoever in your wacko politics. Save it for someone else with their head in the clouds.
Those are facts, not political opinion.
My thoughts exactly... This is way late, but HBarlow's asinine comment inspired me to post anyway... :rolleyes:

Flee, my sister left this country years ago to live in Germany with her German husband. She loves it. I now have a couple beautiful German nieces. Some people just can't handle reality...
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
To be clear, this is the same Germany that is home to the folks at Bosch and Volkswagen who knowingly cheated on emissions standards, correct?

Just want to clarify. ;)
 

turbovan+tdi

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Also want to add, that Germany is back peddling on the millions of immigrants it has let in and Merkel is in deep do do. ;) As a matter of fact, a few European Country's are now back peddling too but that's for a different thread.
 

turbobrick240

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Make Germany Great Again! Oh, wait a minute- scratch that. Carry on Germany. :D
 

flee

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To be clear, this is the same Germany that is home to the folks at Bosch and Volkswagen who knowingly cheated on emissions standards, correct?
Just want to clarify. ;)
Also want to add, that Germany is back peddling on the millions of immigrants it has let in and Merkel is in deep do do. ;) As a matter of fact, a few European Country's are now back peddling too but that's for a different thread.
Haters gonna hate. Just want to clarify.;)
 

turbovan+tdi

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[486]

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ugh politics

Ok, lol, so they used a diesel generator. The irony here is screaming. :D
Lots of heavy equipt has been that way for a very long time, much more forgiving driveline than the alternative.
Trains have been doing it too for years and years too. They even do braking with the motors, dumping the current into big resistive grids. They do it as a sort of CVT-alternative, so they can run the wheels at high speeds while the engines are loaded near maximum at idle RPM for max thermal efficiency, among many other reasons.
 

turbovan+tdi

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ugh politics


Lots of heavy equipt has been that way for a very long time, much more forgiving driveline than the alternative.
Trains have been doing it too for years and years too. They even do braking with the motors, dumping the current into big resistive grids. They do it as a sort of CVT-alternative, so they can run the wheels at high speeds while the engines are loaded near maximum at idle RPM for max thermal efficiency, among many other reasons.
I know that, love the sound of trains as they power up. The irony is that electric trucks was brought up and that they'd be powered or are powered by diesel generators. So they aren't truly clean electric trucks are they! ;)
 

nwdiver

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I know that, love the sound of trains as they power up. The irony is that electric trucks was brought up and that they'd be powered or are powered by diesel generators. So they aren't truly clean electric trucks are they! ;)
The point wasn't that diesel powered electric heavy trucks are clean... but that heavy electric powered vehicles work just fine. They have a decades long track record of reliability and shifting the energy source to a battery will almost certainly improve on that. I predict that Teslas 'Beast' could be almost as big a success as their cars.
 
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Shaun146

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Personally I don't think the battery technology required to make electric cars as convenient at IC is affordable enough yet, I don't think electric will take over till we reach this point because at the end of the day convenience rules when it comes to the masses
 

dubStrom

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The people at Bosch and VW involved in perpetrating dieselgate are NOT representative of your average German, or Bosch/VW employee for that matter.

If they were, would you still be driving a VW? Maybe. It happens to be a pretty good car:D:D

What is bad or wrong about setting goals to wean humans from fossil fuel powered ICEs? The physics behind global warming are sound, and the extraordinary speed of the climate change we are observing is ominous. Changes like this typically take thousands of years (except when a meteor hits the earth:eek:). This is happening in a few hundred years, uh, since we started liberating CO2, it turns out. Starting with coal... the industrial revolution.

Burning wood or coal for heat is essentially "free". But does that mean we should chop all the trees down or keep burning coal? Of course not. Frankly, reduced carbon sources we use for fuel out of convenience are excellent starting compounds for synthesis of natural products in our oxidizing environment. There is lots of energy stored in those hydrocarbons. And it was the plants and trees that created this oxidizing environment in the first place, creating an environment for animals (oxygen) !! If anything, we should be planting trees and plants as if our lives depended on it. Ya think?
 
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