Gen II 3.0 speculation(s).

[KITEWAGON]

I hope they don't come up with the fix for a long time. Driving around a high mileage Touareg with a bumper to bumper warranty is pretty great.

Our purchase was not speculation but to keep drive. I finally filled out the claim paperwork yesterday. Unfortunately we bought on 1/26/17 and only get half of the settlement money which is $4200. But with the Bosch money it will be $5700. We bought a 2014 Touareg Exec with 110k miles for $22k. So after the restitution money comes back we'll be into the car for $16,300. We sold back a 2011 JSW with nearly identical mileage for $16,700. So in the end it looks like we moved up 3 model years and jumped from a car with an MSRP of $25k to one with an MSRP of $60k.

The extended 4 yr/48k mile emissions systems warranty will make me feel better about owning this high mileage beast.

 

[Fourplay]

@fourplay even with a dealer license there is risk to this the best up side would be collect half the fix money now and try and resell them now while the market is still hot on them. I have been watching the dealers auctions for months with my my friend who is a dealer and the prices I have seen at them are really high even on the gen 2 3.0's. Once the full fix comes out I expect the market on these to crash and it may be difficult to unload them for anywhere near the money you picked them up for at auction.

The prices have held steady or slightly declined over the past 4 months, based on ADESA and Manheim sale results, so I wouldn't say the market is "hot".

Almost every dealership bidding on these cars are retailing them, not doing what I am and taking half repair payment with an eye towards taking full repair payment or buyback. That's because dealers need to make money ASAP and can't afford to sit on the cars like I can because I have funds that are not bank loans.

There is literally only 1 other dealership doing what I am, and I talk to the guy every couple of weeks.

Fourplay, how many cars did you sell retail or wholesale as a dealer? Any cars... not necessarily TDIs.

Everything you said is perfect world scenario but if you were in the car business for more than 2 moths, you would know that no one gives a crap about TDIs. The only reason they sell right now is because of the scandal. I am willing to bet that 99% of the people looking for a used TDI SUV right now know about the buyback and will not pay your inflated prices.

Good luck!

My point exactly. No one cares about TDIs - they are currently being treated in the auction market as just another car. The auction values have not increased in the last 4 months.

Again, if I can retail some of my fleet, great! If not, I am pretty confident that I can sell them for right around MMR value.

why would you hold this vehicle till after a fix to sell it? You can collect half the fix money now and sell the car for thousands more then you paid for it now as well. By selling it now even at the trade in value you would make 12k why would you want to hold it to only make 5k later and continue paying insurance and taxes during that time. I didn't say there wasn't money to be made especially at the price you bought that one but I was saying there was more money to be made now rather then later.

I don't think you can sell the car for "thousands more" than you just paid for it. More realistically, I think you can expect to sell the car for what you paid for it (less auction fees). Therefore, it makes sense to optimize revenue.

My carrying costs on these cars is very low at this point. Insurance was prepaid for a year, so I owe nothing other than $550/mo for my warehouse. It makes sense to hold on to them, especially considering that buyback is still on the table.

 

[psd1]

Correct but you have also proven my point if you read my post why would you hold this vehicle till after a fix to sell it? You can collect half the fix money now and sell the car for thousands more then you paid for it now as well. By selling it now even at the trade in value you would make 12k why would you want to hold it to only make 5k later and continue paying insurance and taxes during that time. I didn't say there wasn't money to be made especially at the price you bought that one but I was saying there was more money to be made now rather then later.

Why WOULDN'T I hold it until there is a fix...because there might NOT be a fix. That's part of the speculation. I don't intend on getting rich on the Gen II
purchases, but if there isn't a fix I will double my money on each one purchased. I like buying and selling cars. Prior to this venture I had owned more than 45 vehicles in my life, that number is now over 55. If there is a fix I will keep a Touareg and the A7 and the others will be sold.

Insurance you say...meh. Taxes, what taxes? I have a big shop where the Gen II's live. The four remaining Gen I's sleep behind the shop until they get turned in. Two this month, two in September.

I hope they don't come up with the fix for a long time. Driving around a high mileage Touareg with a bumper to bumper warranty is pretty great.

Our purchase was not speculation but to keep drive. I finally filled out the claim paperwork yesterday. Unfortunately we bought on 1/26/17 and only get half of the settlement money which is $4200. But with the Bosch money it will be $5700. We bought a 2014 Touareg Exec with 110k miles for $22k. So after the restitution money comes back we'll be into the car for $16,300. We sold back a 2011 JSW with nearly identical mileage for $16,700. So in the end it looks like we moved up 3 model years and jumped from a car with an MSRP of $25k to one with an MSRP of $60k.

The extended 4 yr/48k mile emissions systems warranty will make me feel better about owning this high mileage beast.

I'm afraid you will only get half of the Bosch money, so $4950 instead of $5700. That's my understanding anyhow.

$22K for a 14 Exec is a great deal, even with those miles. Plus, the Bridge warranty will help you Square away any niggling details. What color combo?

Our adventure started with a 13 Passat.

 

[opsx]

Does the 2nd half of the restitution payment on the GenII only come in after the deadline for a fix is reached (when is that again?)?

What happens if you buy a 3.0 GenII, get the first half of it, and then sell the car? You can't somehow get the other half - can you?

 

[psd1]

Does the 2nd half of the restitution payment on the GenII only come in after the deadline for a fix is reached (when is that again?)?

What happens if you buy a 3.0 GenII, get the first half of it, and then sell the car? You can't somehow get the other half - can you?

The second half of restitution will come if/when their is an approved fix.

If you sell the car before it is fixed the "Current owner" will receive that payment.

 

[KITEWAGON]

I'm afraid you will only get half of the Bosch money, so $4950 instead of $5700. That's my understanding anyhow.

$22K for a 14 Exec is a great deal, even with those miles. Plus, the Bridge warranty will help you Square away any niggling details. What color combo?

Our adventure started with a 13 Passat.

Yes, I thought it was a good deal. Private party sale. All highway commuting miles and complete dealer service records for every single factory service from 10k to 110k.

Ahhh, I'm sure you're probably right on the Bosch payment. You seem to be much more on the up and up on these 3.0 payments. I didn't realize that they split that up with the previous owner as well.

The color is canyon grey with black interior. Looks good and doesn't show dirt. Hopefully we'll keep it for a long time. I'm confident in a fix given that they just released one for the Gen 1 2.0's. But if they don't the buyback will be too rich to resist.

 

[opsx]

The second half of restitution will come if/when their is an approved fix.
If you sell the car before it is fixed the "Current owner" will receive that payment.

If there is no fix by the mandated date you still get the other half I imagine...

 

[psd1]

Yes, I thought it was a good deal. Private party sale. All highway commuting miles and complete dealer service records for every single factory service from 10k to 110k.

Ahhh, I'm sure you're probably right on the Bosch payment. You seem to be much more on the up and up on these 3.0 payments. I didn't realize that they split that up with the previous owner as well.

The color is canyon grey with black interior. Looks good and doesn't show dirt. Hopefully we'll keep it for a long time. I'm confident in a fix given that they just released one for the Gen 1 2.0's. But if they don't the buyback will be too rich to resist.

I wouldn't have been afraid of the miles at all. I've driven several high mileage Touaregs. They seem to hold together very well over time.

If there is no fix by the mandated date you still get the other half I imagine...

Yes, but part of a larger settlement when people sell them back.

 

[Nash_TDI]

Anybody turning in a t3 touareg that might want to donate some fog lights to worthy cause?

 

[Mxrado]

What options does the Cayenne have? Photos?
What is the VIN# so I can look the options up?

It's Up on eBay.

WP1AF2A20ELA33941
EBay item 202008197110

Taking offers.

 

[843tdi]

The prices have held steady or slightly declined over the past 4 months, based on ADESA and Manheim sale results, so I wouldn't say the market is "hot".

Again, if I can retail some of my fleet, great! If not, I am pretty confident that I can sell them for right around MMR value.

I have not seen a Q7 sell for any where near MMR value in months the couple I saw today and a few Porsche Cayenne's I saw roll through the block online all finished thousands above MMR and the crazy part was three of them still didn't sell as the selling dealer turned down the bids which was crazy. The car you mentioned you have should push 36-38k through there easily and that's my point on that one plus half money. I used the new mobile app to see the auctions today for the first time glad to see they are catching up with the times finally.. The Market is hot but its like a housing buble the prices today are inflated a 2014 Q7 is selling for a lot more today through the auction block then it was a year ago all I'm saying is once this is done we will see a market correction but lets say you are correct for a moment and the market is cold how hot will the market be after the fix when we see a huge flux of these go back on the market that are being held? This won't be only dealers you will so owners and all trading in and unloading these things trying to take the money and run. Once again I think 4-5k return per car is awesome just don't see the point to hold a car for 6-8 more months to get that return when you can do it now.

 

[TDIforDays]

I have not seen a Q7 sell for any where near MMR value in months the couple I saw today and a few Porsche Cayenne's I saw roll through the block online all finished thousands above MMR and the crazy part was three of them still didn't sell as the selling dealer turned down the bids which was crazy. The car you mentioned you have should push 36-38k through there easily and that's my point on that one plus half money. I used the new mobile app to see the auctions today for the first time glad to see they are catching up with the times finally.. The Market is hot but its like a housing buble the prices today are inflated a 2014 Q7 is selling for a lot more today through the auction block then it was a year ago all I'm saying is once this is done we will see a market correction but lets say you are correct for a moment and the market is cold how hot will the market be after the fix when we see a huge flux of these go back on the market that are being held? This won't be only dealers you will so owners and all trading in and unloading these things trying to take the money and run. Once again I think 4-5k return per car is awesome just don't see the point to hold a car for 6-8 more months to get that return when you can do it now.

Really? I unfortunately missed a Q5 with nice spec for $33,500 at Manheim - 3K under MMR. There is 14 Touareg Exec that dealer was asking $31 for, now down to $28K and no one is buying it... a Canadian 11 Q7 in WA has been on OVE for over a week and no one wants it.

So I have not seen this increase that you mentioned.

 

[Fourplay]

I have not seen a Q7 sell for any where near MMR value in months the couple I saw today and a few Porsche Cayenne's I saw roll through the block online all finished thousands above MMR and the crazy part was three of them still didn't sell as the selling dealer turned down the bids which was crazy.

I've purchased 7 cars from Manheim in the last 3 weeks. Paid under MMR for every single one of them. 99% of the buyers at Manheim auctions are not buying to capitalize on the 3.0L Gen 2 payments - they are just buying and selling cars as part of their day-to-day business.

Look at '1 year ago' MMR prices. Most are down about 10-12%, which is normal for a 4 year old luxury car.

Once again I think 4-5k return per car is awesome just don't see the point to hold a car for 6-8 more months to get that return when you can do it now.

This logic doesn't make any sense to me. I have a warehouse with rent prepaid. I have insurance prepaid.

In a best case scenario, I make about $60k per car in my warehouse in 6-8 months. In a worst case scenario, I make about $5k per car in 6-8 months.

Why the hell would I not hold on to the car? To try to take advantage of some perceived price inflation?

I have investors to pay back at pre-negotiated interest rates (for example, I guaranteed initial investors a 15% return, later investors were in a 10-12% tranche). These interest rates are not time specific (it's not 15%/yr, it's 15% once the vehicles are sold or bought back). So it makes much more sense to wait it out, especially given the potential profit I could make.

 

[psd1]

l Once again I think 4-5k return per car is awesome just don't see the point to hold a car for 6-8 more months to get that return when you can do it now.

Then you're missing the most profitable outcome of the speculation.

The money isn't in the resale, the money is in a VWAG buyback.

 

[StayPuff]

It's Up on eBay.

WP1AF2A20ELA33941
EBay item 202008197110

Taking offers.

Beautiful vehicle! Where did you get the brown colored padding/cover that's in the cargo area? That's really nice.

 

[843tdi]

This is pretty simple there will be no buybacks on the gen 3 cars the reason you have not seen an approved fix yet is money they will delay fixes on these as long as allowed and that realistic estimate is they can delay till Feb or March 18 with no penalty and thats when you will see a fix approved. I do hope I'm wrong as I do stand to make some money at this point now if that happens but i only just bought cars I plan to keep once a fix come out. @tdifordays I have not seen that 14 exec you are talking about where is it as long as it doesn't have over 80k mile I will buy it tomorrow on Meiheim if its still there and not in British Columbia.

 

[DanB36]

@843tdi, there are no gen 3 3.0 cars.

 

[psd1]

This is pretty simple there will be no buybacks on the gen 3 cars the reason you have not seen an approved fix yet is money they will delay fixes on these as long as allowed and that realistic estimate is they can delay till Feb or March 18 with no penalty and thats when you will see a fix approved. I do hope I'm wrong as I do stand to make some money at this point now if that happens but i only just bought cars I plan to keep once a fix come out. @tdifordays I have not seen that 14 exec you are talking about where is it as long as it doesn't have over 80k mile I will buy it tomorrow on Meiheim if its still there and not in British Columbia.

Wrong on several counts.

1. VWAG is on the hook for the Bridge Warranty for EVERY Gen II 3.0 in operation, 60K vehicles. This cannot be cheap. They want the fix approved ASAP.

2. If VWAG doesn't get the fix approved by 10/3 for the sub group 2.2 they start paying $500 per month for three months. Not hugely expensive, but an expense.

3. If VWAG doesn't get the fix approved by 11/8 for the sub group 2.1 they start paying $500 per month for three months. Not hugely expensive, but an expense.

4. If VWAG doesn't get the fix approved by 12/20 for the sub group PC they start paying $500 per month for three months. Not hugely expensive, but an expense.

It's a good move to buy cars that you like, thats what I have done.

 

[dieselpwr]

How do I find out how much restitution is available on a specific vehicle? I'm looking at at Q7, which would be to replace our current gas model.

edit: found the info on vwcourtsettlement. I was a bit hesitant on getting another TDI, but with the new warranty, seems like a no brainer. If i'm reading correctly, the warranty is extended until 120k miles until a fix is performed?

 

[Motodude]

So go in to get half the fix money, and the guy gurantees me there is going to be a fix for the 3.0's. I said well they have proposed a fix but it has to be accepted and done in a timely manner or else its buyback time. Then I had to show him the easiest way to use his tablet to take a pic of the inside door info. Haha. But he knows 100 percent a fix is guranteed.

 

[Nash_TDI]

So go in to get half the fix money, and the guy gurantees me there is going to be a fix for the 3.0's. I said well they have proposed a fix but it has to be accepted and done in a timely manner or else its buyback time. Then I had to show him the easiest way to use his tablet to take a pic of the inside door info. Haha. But he knows 100 percent a fix is guranteed.

Almost exactly how mine went today. Also said there was a guaranteed fix.

Friend of mine also said they got 10 "fix" kits in for the 2.0s to the sum of 16k.

 

[drsven]

With the recent FCA 3.0L V6 Ecodiesel fix approval announced, I would say an approved Gen2 fix is also likely.

 

[Fourplay]

So go in to get half the fix money, and the guy gurantees me there is going to be a fix for the 3.0's. I said well they have proposed a fix but it has to be accepted and done in a timely manner or else its buyback time. Then I had to show him the easiest way to use his tablet to take a pic of the inside door info. Haha. But he knows 100 percent a fix is guranteed.

That's what they all said about 2.0Ls too. The truth is, no one knows other than a handful of folks within EPA/CARB. And they still might not be done testing.

When I took my Gen I 3.0L in on the first day of buybacks in July, the sales manager was an arrogant jerk regarding the entire buyback program. He had no understanding of how the process worked, yet told me none of the cars I was selling back were eligible, I would be stuck with them, etc. This was after I looked into doing the trade-in option with a couple of Gen I cars in exchange for a TTRS or RS3.

He also promised me that he had heard personally from his "close friend" Scott Keogh (Audi USA president) and that a fix would be out by mid-July at the latest.

I specifically make it a point to go by that sales manager's office every time I bring another Gen I car for buyback or Gen II car in for the half restitution and ask him, "Any news on that fix your good buddy said was coming out a month ago? *Waves buyback check* I thought you said I wouldn't be getting one of these?"

 

[Mythdoc]

Wrong on several counts.



1. VWAG is on the hook for the Bridge Warranty for EVERY Gen II 3.0 in operation, 60K vehicles. This cannot be cheap. They want the fix approved ASAP.

Nah. Probably half of these vehicles are still under their original factory warranty. Of the remainder, many are under Fidelity or other 3rd party warranty which supersedes their liability.

 

[CleanDieselTD$]

With the recent FCA 3.0L V6 Ecodiesel fix approval announced, I would say an approved Gen2 fix is also likely.

Source?

 

[drsven]

Source?

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2017/fiatchrysler_ldt_a0091321_3d0_l2_diesel.pdf



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[psd1]

That's what they all said about 2.0Ls too. The truth is, no one knows other than a handful of folks within EPA/CARB. And they still might not be done testing.

When I took my Gen I 3.0L in on the first day of buybacks in July, the sales manager was an arrogant jerk regarding the entire buyback program. He had no understanding of how the process worked, yet told me none of the cars I was selling back were eligible, I would be stuck with them, etc. This was after I looked into doing the trade-in option with a couple of Gen I cars in exchange for a TTRS or RS3.

He also promised me that he had heard personally from his "close friend" Scott Keogh (Audi USA president) and that a fix would be out by mid-July at the latest.

I specifically make it a point to go by that sales manager's office every time I bring another Gen I car for buyback or Gen II car in for the half restitution and ask him, "Any news on that fix your good buddy said was coming out a month ago? *Waves buyback check* I thought you said I wouldn't be getting one of these?"

Perfect!

 

[Mxrado]

Looks like there are tests going on ?!

 

[showdown 42]

As a GEN 1 happy owner who isn't selling back ,what if anything does VW do for restitution for their bad behavior. LOL BTW I live in a no emissions test state.

 

[kooyajerms]

Went to check 3 VIN's on the vw claims portal to see what money was still on them. All showed full $9,000 (thereabouts), but when I inputed my mom's 2014 Q7 that they already took half of the money on, it's still showing full $9,000.

Am I using the wrong place to check on the moneys?