Gen II 3.0 speculation(s).

[Careby]

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/porsche-proposes-emissions-fix-for-cayenne-diesels/
This fix was rejected, by the way. And not just for the Cayennes, for all 3.0L diesels.

Do you have a link to information about rejection of this fix?

 

[ujames]

“The diesel Touareg needed eight liters of urea per 1,000 kilometers (621 miles). The intended tank had only a 16-liter capacity. A Touareg driver would have to replenish AdBlue every 2,000 kilometers (1,243 miles). The engineers wanted the tank to be refilled during the scheduled service visit after 10,000 kilometers (6,210 miles).”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertel...dry-of-the-dieselgate-scandal-stadler-soiled/

-----

"Bigger tanks were not needed, says the report, because automakers “had long started to dupe regulators and customers about the true emissions of the cars.” Once cars were out of the testing labs, exhaust treatment was mostly turned off, sparing customers the AdBlue hassle, and OEMs the expense for bigger tanks."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertel...mler-car-cartel-conspiracy-fresh-report-says/

 

[843tdi]

Do you have a link to information about rejection of this fix?

I would be curious on this as well I never saw anything about them denying this fix that would be big news. They only thing I ever saw was the second request for paper work on it as VW/Audi did not send all the required back paper work on the initial submital.

 

[Q5TDI]

You dont have a 2.2 SUV and thus your dates are wrong:

They have fixed almost all the 2.0L vehicles and nothing appeared on court schedules, this is not like its my first rodeo here.. what your looking for on the calendar is not indicative of ****.

Will there be some sort of announcement on October 23 on whether the 2.2 SUV fix was approved or rejected by the EPA/CARB?
Will there be a letter like the one for the Passat manual transmissions that were denied?
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/vw_in..._notice_of_disapproval_2litre_gen2_manual.pdf

 

[MBQ]

He's talking about this letter:

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/vw_in..._audi_vw_3l_recall_rejection_cover_letter.pdf

 

[MBQ]

The rejection letter specifically mentioned VW needs to address the proposed fix's impact on "DEF system's dosing". Deficiency No. 5.

 

[bhuizer]

Looks like VW had absolutely nothing to submit at the time based on that rejection letter.

 

[psd1]

He's talking about this letter:

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/vw_in..._audi_vw_3l_recall_rejection_cover_letter.pdf

From July, 2016!

 

[Fourplay]

From July, 2016!

Yes, and the original article with the quote from the Porsche CEO was from January 2016!

 

[ujames]

From July, 2016!

According to the CARB website, the last announcement related to approved/rejected fix/modification was made on May 2017 for the 2.0L. I've been keeping an eye on that site to see if any news will come on the 3.0.

 

[Mythdoc]

Yes, and the original article with the quote from the Porsche CEO was from January 2016!

You seem to want your hat tip in advance. I think you are spiking the ball way too soon.

 

[bhuizer]

I think all the stuff posted is just pointing to the fact that VW has an uphill battle here. Based on the first rejection letter, VW had zero details on how they were going to fix the cars at that time. Granted, a lot may have changed in a year and a half. I know which way I am leaning though and I'm going to be shocked if VW comes up with a fix (maintaining full performance) for all generations of 3.0's.

 

[psd1]

You seem to want your hat tip in advance. I think you are spiking the ball way too soon.

The thread does have the word "speculation" in it...

 

[nanunanu]

I'm not a mechanic and know very little about what AD Blue does, how a diesel engine operates, levels of emissions, you name it. I haven't read every court document or filing. I've simply done the best I can to keep up with this from the beginning in an attempt to make sure I received full compensation from VW due to their fraud.
As to is a fix coming by the 23rd deadline I'll say this, when has VW told the truth about any of this without being prompted by the court? With that said, I'd throw out anything VW says about a pending fix. Using common sense, it seems that if I were in VW shoes if I had a fix it would long ago have been implemented. Am I supposed to believe that VW has technicians sitting around today at the 11th hour that are going to magically come up with the FIX?
Speculation, there IS NO FIX that the court will approve. Buybacks will be instituted at some point by the judge.
It's all speculation anyway.
Am I missing something?

 

[Fourplay]

You seem to want your hat tip in advance. I think you are spiking the ball way too soon.

Not making any early assumptions, just posting info. I still think there will be a fix, but a buyback would (obviously with 26 cars, hah) be ideal for me.

 

[saggii]

Source?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...mages-approach-30-billion-on-u-s-recall-costs

I think this was the news that I read.

Though, in my opinion, VW is not going to let it go so easily. I believe that they must be working everything in their power to complete the fix. Maybe offer free Adblue or offer free service or whatever it takes to avoid 60k spend per car.
If other countries emissions standard were as stringent, VW must have gone bankrupt by now, I'm sure of it.

Having said that, IMO, it is our bigotry that we are imposing such harsh terms for VW whereas other companies breezed passed such lawsuits with pennies.
Though not an apple to apple comparison, take the latest example of Equifax, the news has already gone stale and we will hardly get any money in compensation (maybe 5-10 dollars from the class action and after 10 years). My point is that VW has done enough and has given enough money. I'm happy to take more money if they are willing to give out more but expectations, such as asking for more money, are preposterous.

 

[MBQ]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...mages-approach-30-billion-on-u-s-recall-costs
I think this was the news that I read.
Though, in my opinion, VW is not going to let it go so easily. I believe that they must be working everything in their power to complete the fix. Maybe offer free Adblue or offer free service or whatever it takes to avoid 60k spend per car.
If other countries emissions standard were as stringent, VW must have gone bankrupt by now, I'm sure of it.
Having said that, IMO, it is our bigotry that we are imposing such harsh terms for VW whereas other companies breezed passed such lawsuits with pennies.
Though not an apple to apple comparison, take the latest example of Equifax, the news has already gone stale and we will hardly get any money in compensation (maybe 5-10 dollars from the class action and after 10 years). My point is that VW has done enough and has given enough money. I'm happy to take more money if they are willing to give out more but expectations, such as asking for more money, are preposterous.

This is stated as for the 2.0L fix.

I am surprised they are surprised. What's their original budget for a fix for the 2.0L?

VW has not been straight about anything to anybody. There will be more surprises for 3.0L gen 2 buybacks/fix. Did VW ever tell it as a possibility to their shareholders, or anybody?

It's not up to you and me to say VW has paid enough. The 60k 3.0L gen 2 TDI owners represented by the PSC lawyers should not get a fix with undermined performance & DEF dosage without an option to selling their car back to VW.

 

[saggii]

This is stated as for the 2.0L fix.

I am surprised they are surprised. What's their original budget for a fix for the 2.0L?

VW has not been straight about anything to anybody. There will be more surprises for 3.0L gen 2 buybacks/fix. Did VW ever tell it as a possibility to their shareholders, or anybody?

It's not up to you and me to say VW has paid enough. The 60k 3.0L gen 2 TDI owners represented by the PSC lawyers should not get a fix with undermined performance & DEF dosage without an option to selling their car back to VW.

While I can't answer all the questions, I can definitely say the compensation is enough because, well, I can and #2 is that I'm also part of the class, though I prefer to go with the flow. And I do have a 3.0 as well just to put things in perspective.

If you buy a laptop, do you expect the manufacturer to buy back your item after 3 years because of a failed driver or whatever reason? Again, this is not a apple to apple comparison because of the size of the deal - $1k vs $20-60k and different products, but you get the point, at least I hope. Or would you expect thousands of dollars of money back on stocks which promised that they would deliver x returns or y cents on the dollar? Corporate governance is completely crippled by greed these days, though, this topic for some another day. I was trying to make a point where I saw other members still complaining about the lack of the compensation.

 

[bhuizer]

I think you will be pressed to find many who would argue that the compensation wasn't/isn't enough. A lot of owners are mainly frustrated by the process, but that's my take on it.

This has been going on for over two years now, so I think the frustration is warranted for many original owners. Those of us who have bought multiple vehicles after the scandal broke knew what we were getting into and understand the timeline/process that comes with it.

 

[duratitus]

If you buy a laptop, do you expect the manufacturer to buy back your item after 3 years because of a failed driver or whatever reason?

Remember this was about false advertising, not a failed part. I believe that is why they had to offer a buyback.

And I agree that the compensation is adequate, although the process has room for improvement.

 

[Fourplay]

While I can't answer all the questions, I can definitely say the compensation is enough because, well, I can and #2 is that I'm also part of the class, though I prefer to go with the flow. And I do have a 3.0 as well just to put things in perspective.
If you buy a laptop, do you expect the manufacturer to buy back your item after 3 years because of a failed driver or whatever reason? Again, this is not a apple to apple comparison because of the size of the deal - $1k vs $20-60k and different products, but you get the point, at least I hope. Or would you expect thousands of dollars of money back on stocks which promised that they would deliver x returns or y cents on the dollar? Corporate governance is completely crippled by greed these days, though, this topic for some another day. I was trying to make a point where I saw other members still complaining about the lack of the compensation.

Neither of those things are good analogies, the stock one is especially bad, because you are talking about bonds, not stocks, and neither product is a consumer good.

VAG broke the law, used false advertising to lie to consumers, then continued to lie about having broken the law when they did get caught. It took many months of independent testing before they finally acquiesced.

A buyback for the Gen II 3.0L vehicles makes the most sense out of all possible outcomes, as every single other vehicle type involved in this scandal has received the buyback option.

 

[saggii]

Neither of those things are good analogies, the stock one is especially bad, because you are talking about bonds, not stocks, and neither product is a consumer good.

VAG broke the law, used false advertising to lie to consumers, then continued to lie about having broken the law when they did get caught. It took many months of independent testing before they finally acquiesced.

Of course, if a CEO/CFO of a company gives a guidance of X% increase in revenues that will reflect $Y in EPS and at the end of the quarter or even FY their numbers don't add up. Talking about consumer good, what about Apple? Every time they go on stage and blabber something up which IMO is false advertising. Go check out online forums which specifically talk about this.

A buyback for the Gen II 3.0L vehicles makes the most sense out of all possible outcomes, as every single other vehicle type involved in this scandal has received the buyback option.

Oh ya, says the guy with what 26 cars?

 

[saggii]

although the process has room for improvement.

I agree.

 

[saggii]

I think you will be pressed to find many who would argue that the compensation wasn't/isn't enough. A lot of owners are mainly frustrated by the process, but that's my take on it.

That is what I said, everyone wants a big payout but when compared with other litigations, I think VW has done enough, more than enough IMHO.

This has been going on for over two years now, so I think the frustration is warranted for many original owners. Those of us who have bought multiple vehicles after the scandal broke knew what we were getting into and understand the timeline/process that comes with it.

Agree, but VW did buy back and did try to make amends with the $$$. A lot of the delay was because of the legal process too.

 

[Fourplay]

Of course, if a CEO/CFO of a company gives a guidance of X% increase in revenues that will reflect $Y in EPS and at the end of the quarter or even FY their numbers don't add up. Talking about consumer good, what about Apple? Every time they go on stage and blabber something up which IMO is false advertising. Go check out online forums which specifically talk about this.
Oh ya, says the guy with what 26 cars?

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of analysts at investment banks/trading houses validating those claims and then issuing their own guidance and stock/earnings targets though. It's not the same as consumer fraud, because investments inherently carry risk, that's why they deliver a return above the current t-bill/treasury rate. Also, "guidance" on a stock is not advertising or a guarantee of performance - the SEC (and the market) will destroy you if you guarantee returns and do not achieve them.

VW/Audi/Porsche specifically advertised these products as being environmentally friendly, when in fact they were the exact opposite. Not only did they break federal emissions laws, but they also deceptively advertised them.

There is a large difference between advertising fluff and promotion of nonexistent product features which break federal laws.

The closest analogy I can think of is a drug company promoting a drug (say, for cancer) that subverted the FDA certification process, then later admitting the drug doesn't treat cancer but instead exacerbates it.

Oh ya, says the guy with what 26 cars?

Hah, of course I have a bit of a motive, but in all honesty, if you are an original GenII 3.0L owner and every other VAG TDI vehicle got a buyback option, it would be pretty ridiculous that you wouldn't receive the same.

That is what I said, everyone wants a big payout but when compared with other litigations, I think VW has done enough, more than enough IMHO.

VW knew the potential penalties (3x vehicle value under the Clean Air Act - total liability of $61 billion) and still made a conscious choice to cheat. So the notion the VW has "done enough" or "spent enough money" is really a bit silly. They broke very clearly defined laws with very clearly defined penalties, and they will still avoid ~$30B of those potential penalties, which is pretty lucky, I think.

Don't draw comparisons to other settlements, because there is nothing like this one out there. Equifax certainly broke the law, but there are no laws on the books saying, "For each data breach, you must pay $xxx as a penalty". Now, maybe there should be, but the point is that VW knew exactly what the risks were and cheated anyway.

 

[tdi_sport]

Five bucks says vw pissed off an epa exec by not paying him his grease money and thats what set it all off. Jk

Keep up with them bribes bmw and mercedes!!! Cuz if i cant get that a7 tdi im moving to the other germans for a diesel suv!!

 

[Greg5OH]

Just spoke with an agent as its been almost a month since i filed for the fix. When submitting, the amount was approx $8200.
The agent said there was an issue with my eligibility: there was a previous owner associated with the car, and extra steps are needed to verify my documentation. I have to wait for the repair to be approved to move forward with my claim.
Said if there is a handraiser (previous owner) then I would get half.
I dont understand why I have to wait for fix to be approved when clearly people have bought second hand and get the approx $4k shortly after filing...
Said he cant discuss anybody else claim status with me, so I dont know if the PO decided to wake up a month after trading it in, and wanted to file after I already filed?

Basically just said to sit tight and wait for more developments..

 

[marmur99]

They told me something along the same lines. My case has been sitting on step 15 for more than two months. They told me, it will move forward once the fix is available. I bought the vehicle in 08/2017 and I suspect many people entered this VIN to check restitution amount.
Now, there's probably a lot of claims on my vehicle and instead of spending time on clarifying who actually owns the car, VW prefer to wait and see who physically shows up with the car at the dealership.

 

[Nash_TDI]

Just spoke with an agent as its been almost a month since i filed for the fix. When submitting, the amount was approx $8200.
The agent said there was an issue with my eligibility: there was a previous owner associated with the car, and extra steps are needed to verify my documentation. I have to wait for the repair to be approved to move forward with my claim.
Said if there is a handraiser (previous owner) then I would get half.
I dont understand why I have to wait for fix to be approved when clearly people have bought second hand and get the approx $4k shortly after filing...
Said he cant discuss anybody else claim status with me, so I dont know if the PO decided to wake up a month after trading it in, and wanted to file after I already filed?

Basically just said to sit tight and wait for more developments..

They told me something along the same lines. My case has been sitting on step 15 for more than two months. They told me, it will move forward once the fix is available. I bought the vehicle in 08/2017 and I suspect many people entered this VIN to check restitution amount.
Now, there's probably a lot of claims on my vehicle and instead of spending time on clarifying who actually owns the car, VW prefer to wait and see who physically shows up with the car at the dealership.

Same thing happened to me. Bought my car 6/12 filed all the paperwork immediately. Was stuck on step 15 forever. Finally got apt for fix 8/9/2017

 

[Greg5OH]

I hope this is the case. I put a deposit on my vehicle the day it went up for sale on cars.com however it was up there for a good 2.5 weeks before I went down to pick it up and subsequently the listing removed. Hopefully it was just others running the VIN and the actual owner did not step up. I mean, why would they now of all times, since this has been known (possibly not by them) for a long time.
Hopefully still get the full 8200 and change, just would be nice to get the half of it now upfront..

They told me something along the same lines. My case has been sitting on step 15 for more than two months. They told me, it will move forward once the fix is available. I bought the vehicle in 08/2017 and I suspect many people entered this VIN to check restitution amount.
Now, there's probably a lot of claims on my vehicle and instead of spending time on clarifying who actually owns the car, VW prefer to wait and see who physically shows up with the car at the dealership.