Gelled in motion... AGAIN grrrr

pastvast

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Location
Toledo area, Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
Let's just say, that I have a love/hate relationship with my Jetta, and this month it's been more HATE than anything else. I've ended up either on the side of the road or limping to my destination due to fuel gelling 3x so far in three weeks. Last week... who would've thought that diesel in WI, in FEBRUARY, wouldn't be properly winterized. Alas... not me. Thanks to JasonTDI for the save that day.

So as not to make the same mistake twice, DH fueled up my Jetta. He made sure to add plenty of anti-gelling fuel additive as the *highs* have been in the single digits. Tuesday was fine... drove 50 miles one-way without problem to and from work.

Today... not so good. After getting on the highway for 10 miles I started to lose power. I got off at the next exit and added in *more* anti-gelling stuff, shook the car some, let it idle for 10 minutes and proceeded to get back on the highway. Same thing, only add in the check engine light going on. Got off at next exit and ended up taking side roads most of the way into work (no problems when going under 55mph. Tried the highway again near the end and it was OK (maybe hadn't mixed enough?).

Jason had told us that if we keep having problems, it is probably due to the check valve in the tank having issues. Anyone else want to weigh in?

Oh... here's another tidbit. I ran an errand in it this afternoon (all side roads), and kept an eye on the control panel, specifically the temp gauge. I purposefully drove it longer to let it warm up some. The gauge would show it getting warmer, then the temp dropped back down, and then shot up to almost 190. Is it supposed to do that? And if not, could that be related to my gelling issue.

-Stephanie

P.S. If this car leaves me on the side of the road in the bitter cold when I've got my 3m/o baby with me, the car might not survive my wrath!
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
Don't mind the gauge, it's not related to the fuel.

The checkvalve thing is real, but it was more for slightly older cars.

Have you thought about adding a little kerosene to the tank? Like maybe a gallon or so per fillup? This would lower the cloud point a bit.
 

251

TDI Owner/Operator
Joined
May 11, 2002
Location
NW IN
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
pastvast said:
Oh... here's another tidbit. I ran an errand in it this afternoon (all side roads), and kept an eye on the control panel, specifically the temp gauge. I purposefully drove it longer to let it warm up some. The gauge would show it getting warmer, then the temp dropped back down, and then shot up to almost 190. Is it supposed to do that?

-Stephanie
Engine temperature will drop at times - mainly in stop and go traffic and thereby normal. These engines need to be working to stay up to normal operating temperature - when you stop for a traffic light it is not working as hard and cools off some as you've noticed. That's how efficient the TDI motor is - very little wasted energy here!

When your engine temperature dropped were you at a stop light/sign and/or doing low speed driving in town? If so, shouldn't be a major worry for you since it's normal behaior in these frigid temps. No idea on what's going on with your gelling woes though! Hope this helps you a bit!
 

rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
When was the last time you changed your fuel filter?
 

LanduytG

Vendor
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Greenfield, IN
TDI
99 NB 82 Westfalia Diesel
rdkern said:
When was the last time you changed your fuel filter?
Exactly, I'm sure Jason would have changed it but the problem you are having is the filter is waxed a little and will not let fuel through at the higher speed. Slowing down means less fuel needed and it can handle that. Change the fuel filter and you will be go to go.

Greg
 

Logismoi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Location
GMT
TDI
PD
is it true or false that the additive that replaced the sulfur (ULSD) is wax ?

being silly . . . what did they replace the sulfur with when the Gov't de-sulfurized the diesel ?


-
 

millsap2

Active member
Joined
May 8, 2005
Location
Toledo, OH
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, Silver
fuel filter was changed when it first died on the side of the road 2 weeks ago. Would it likely need changing again?

-Stephanie
 

rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
If you have any sort of gelling, you can clog the filter by straining the wax or minor gelling particles out. Sometimes will will re-dissolve, but remember you've filtered several gallons of fuel, and the amount in your filter may not be sufficient to dissolve the precipitates when it gets warmer.

I believe it could need it again.
 

rcnaylor

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Location
Amarillo, TX
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportswagen Silver
FWIW, I have had big problems once with diesel in winter, and it was the one time I bought from a less reputable station. Poor quality fuel and fuel with too much water can do in the best supplements and repair efforts.
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
Logismoi said:
is it true or false that the additive that replaced the sulfur (ULSD) is wax ?

being silly . . . what did they replace the sulfur with when the Gov't de-sulfurized the diesel ?


-
err...nothing.
 

mheat

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Location
Shawville, Quebec
TDI
15 GSW, 03 JSW
pastvast said:
Jason had told us that if we keep having problems, it is probably due to the check valve in the tank having issues. Anyone else want to weigh in?
For sure that is what it is. I had exactly the same issue with my 03 wagon, with exactly the identical problem. It takes 5 minutes to check the part number underneath the rear seat. You need a phillips screwdriver. There is a really good thread on it, about 2 years ago.

Obvious design flaw, about 30 minutes to fix by drilling out the check valve.

I could see a ball of paraffing crystals right around the check valve - no way the fuel was gelling - I had a Dodge diesel for 13 years, and it only happened once, and a little bit of antigel fixed it right up.

The towtruck driver said he tows TDIs to the dealer whenever it gets cold. The dealer tells them they're not putting enough antigel in, when you shouldn't need any at all, unless around here it is -40. Criminal behaviour on VW's part, in my opinion.
 

carnotgas

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Location
New York
TDI
2015 Jetta
Dangerous situation

I have had problems with my car this year in cold weather. Being stranded in 0 deg. weather is a deadly serious situation. I am getting rid of my Jetta. I just can't risk it on the rural roads that I drive on.,
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
What year? What kind of fuel? Using any additives?
 

Dimitri16V

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
DE
TDI
01 Golf, 04 Golf
what is going with all those TDIs having gelling issues ? are the refineries cutting down on the anti-gel additives ? or station owners water down their diesel tanks ?
 

Gothmolly

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Location
Providence, RI
TDI
2002 Golf
carnotgas said:
I have had problems with my car this year in cold weather. Being stranded in 0 deg. weather is a deadly serious situation. I am getting rid of my Jetta. I just can't risk it on the rural roads that I drive on.,
It's clearly broken, I'll take it off your hands for $100.
 

Birdman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 1999
Location
Near Hagerstown MD.
TDI
Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
Dimitri16V said:
what is going with all those TDIs having gelling issues ? are the refineries cutting down on the anti-gel additives ? or station owners water down their diesel tanks ?
DO a search on Gelling. THis weather is a lot colder then normal and needs to be treated with more antigell. I use 10 OZof the white power sevice in this weather and carry the Power sevice 911 in case I feel it starting to gell red bottle. You think you are having problem you should see some the the big rigs at truck stops or just plain died along the road and they should knw better.
 

pastvast

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Location
Toledo area, Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
Thanks for the link to the post with instructions on drilling out the check valve. Printed it out and DH braved the single digit temps to do that last night (no garage... brrrr). We'll hope that solves the problem. We swapped cars this morning... I'd just had too much excitement with the Jetta for me to take another day! Next week is supposed to be warmer, so maybe the Jetta and I can go back to uneventful drives!!

I will say that if it weren't for all the great TDI gurus and owners willing to share their expertise and experiences... along with this site to put us in contact with one another... my car would've been toast after it's first timing belt change!! Expensive parts and general lack of expertise at nearby auto shops is the part I hate about owning my TDI. But the pros still outweigh the cons in owning it. So much so that I'll up the bid to $200 on that other Jetta for sale =)

-Stephanie
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
I'm willing to bet that your car will now be OK. The checkvalve problem was proven long ago to be an issue. And make sure your buying good fuel from the getgo---

I run a large fuel COOLER in the front fender-- I've yet to have any gel issues. Its been in the single digits for a few days now. All I use is some bioshield and a splash of stanydne.
 

2td

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Location
Iowa
TDI
Jettas 2 rabbits4 plus tractors 360 subaru parts van
Stef I know whats wrong with your car. Drop me a message..
 

naturist

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2001
Location
Bro Jerry's hometown, Virginia
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 2005 Jeep Libby CRD, 2012 BMW X5 35d
nope

Dimitri16V said:
what is going with all those TDIs having gelling issues ? are the refineries cutting down on the anti-gel additives ? or station owners water down their diesel tanks ?

No station owner with even half a brain would ever even THINK of watering down their diesel tank. Doing so absolutely guarantees thousands of dollars worth of claims against the station.

Which is not to say that there isn't some water in some diesel fuel. It can easily get there all by itself, no help needed, in small quantities. At worst, the problem would be related to inattentive station/distributor employees, however, NOT to owners purposely adding water.
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
carnotgas said:
I have had problems with my car this year in cold weather. Being stranded in 0 deg. weather is a deadly serious situation. I am getting rid of my Jetta. I just can't risk it on the rural roads that I drive on.,
You should not have any problems if you are running a good additive. It helps in more ways that just preventing gelling. Lets see: "Fight fuel gelling, waxing and freeze-up in cold weather. Lower fuel pour point as much as 40 degrees F. Increase fuel cetane rating for more power and better MPG. Combat rust and corrosion. Clean, lubricate and extend the life of your Diesel Fuel Injection System". Treats 60 gallons for about $6.00. Good investment imo. Stanadyne Performance Formula All Season Diesel Fuel Conditioner. And Stanadyne is the preferred additive according to VW.

There are other good fuel treatment additives out there.
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
Dimitri16V said:
what is going with all those TDIs having gelling issues ? are the refineries cutting down on the anti-gel additives ? or station owners water down their diesel tanks ?
I do think that some refineries are having problems with the new ULSD. My son's big rig is still waiting for a CAT diesel mechanic for the 4th day in a row. It was running fine when he parked it for the weekend. All the service mechanics in this area are tied up with what they claim is ULSD gelling problems.

And I agree with naturist, no self respecting station owner or mgr would water down diesel fuel. But I do not trust cut rate discount independant stations! There are ways other that water to mess up fuel during the cold weather, like ordering a weaker blend or just plain D2 without winter enhancement additives. Stick with the chains, national or local. They will do things right.
 

upnorth

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Location
North Western Minnesota
I would not rely on winterized fuel in the winter.
I'm in norther Minnesota and mornings here have been -10F to -25F every day for over 2 weeks now. All I put in my tank is #2 diesel with 4oz of power service. never any problems, I never use #1 and I never use blended.
But I do change my fuel filter at the start of winter, after a summer of driving the filter has a load of wax in it.
 

McBrew

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Location
Annapolis, MD
TDI
2003 Golf GLS TDI, 5 speed, Silver/Grey
Stick with the chains, national or local. They will do things right.
Don't bet on it. I know of only three times when diesel gelled on people in my area (hardly ever gets down to single digits here), and all three times it was HESS fuel.

I would not rely on winterized fuel in the winter.
If I lived in Minnesota, I would probably feel the same way. However, in my 16 years of driving diesel cars, I have never experienced gelling. However, the Dodge dealership where I bought my Sprinter did fill the windshield washer reservoir with non-winterized fluid IN DECEMBER, which caused it to freeze solid on me while on a 750 mile trip through a snowstorm. It also cracked one of the squirter nozzles. At least my fuel was properly winterized!
Being stranded in 0 deg. weather is a deadly serious situation.
I totally agree. However, you can get stranded in ANY type of car. Don't bet your life that your car won't break down. If I am on a long trip in the winter, I carry my Coleman ProCat heater with me. That would keep me toasty-warm in the car for many hours.
 
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troopertripp

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Location
Northern Illinois
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
You people have encouraged the crap out of me, when these temps get a little warmer I cant wait to try to get my jetta started and into a warm garage, replace the fuel filter and drill out the fuel pick up in the tank, the pictures on the link above was huge for me to understand. With my car dying and being towed to the dealer twice, with little results, I abandonded it in a grocery store parking lot the past week and a half, with the -0 f temp waiting for the chance to try and start it. After reading this thread and the one I initiated, all your help and advice is amaizing. Thanks, Thanks, Thanks.

Tripp
 

troopertripp

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Location
Northern Illinois
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS TDI
You people have encouraged the crap out of me, when these temps get a little warmer I cant wait to try to get my jetta started and into a warm garage, replace the fuel filter and drill out the fuel pick up in the tank, the pictures on the link above was huge for me to understand. With my car dying and being towed to the dealer twice, with little results, I abandonded it in a grocery store parking lot the past week and a half, with the -0 f temp waiting for the chance to try and start it. After reading this thread and the one I initiated, all your help and advice is amaizing. Thanks, Thanks, Thanks.

Tripp
 
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