Fueling in jugs... Strictly..

[jason_]

Since most offroad diesel is ultra low sulphur, Would it raise an eyebrow if I bought it in jugs every time I went to get fuel, at the same station?? If they don't see it, all they can do is assume, and last I knew assumption isn't a crime!



Hmm?

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[carkey351]

not sure what the question is. if you are buying fuel and placing it in a proper container how could they not allow it? its not a crime to buy offroad fuel. now if you put it in your vehicle tank then thats different.

 

[Rico567]

Yes, the question seems circuitous. I buy diesel in a 1-gallon can to use as an accelerant for starting fires. If you're buying off-road, I assume you've noticed the red dye. If you're putting it in the tank of your vehicle (which is the only reason I can think of why this question would even be asked), then you better hope you don't get stopped and dipped. The fines are very stiff.

 

[JDSwan87]

Since most offroad diesel is ultra low sulphur, Would it raise an eyebrow if I bought it in jugs every time I went to get fuel, at the same station?? If they don't see it, all they can do is assume, and last I knew assumption isn't a crime!



Hmm?

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It is not a crime to dispense non toad taxed diesel into a can. However, if you are filling up significant amounts of cans multiple times a month, it will raise a red flag. My neighbor fills his (2) 5 gallon cans once every month without issue for his lawn mower and 4x4 tractor. The crime is, as stated above, when you dispense non road taxed diesel into a road going vehicle. Also, as stated above, non road taxed diesel is dyed red and that dye will dissolve into you legit diesel and taint it for a long time.

 

[Tdijarhead]

Just courious has anyone out there ever been stopped and dipped? Or seen it done on anything other than a big rig?

 

[JDSwan87]

Just courious has anyone out there ever been stopped and dipped? Or seen it done on anything other than a big rig?

I've seen the police dipping trucks at the Monroe County Fair in Michigan.

 

[CourierGuy]

I've many times considered running the dyed fuel.. but I wouldn't be able to write off the expense on my taxes for my work...

Now if I didn't drive for a living...

Then again.. a part of me would be feeling guilty.. for not contributing to the road tax system(caught, caught).

I'd love to know the real deal on the fines and penalties for getting caught.. heard so many stories.. like ODOMETER*.15cents(or whatever the tax difference is between dyed and clear fuel) .. as in assuming you've always done it, and they fine you for the full odometer reading on your car. Ie: 100000km would translate to a 15000$ fine.

 

[JDSwan87]

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(wg...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-207-1122

MOTOR FUEL TAX ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 403 of 2000
207.1122 Dyed diesel fuel; use in motor vehicle on public roads or highways; exception; penalty.
(3) An owner, operator, or driver of a vehicle who uses dyed diesel fuel on the public roads or highways of this state is subject to a civil penalty of $200.00 for each of the first 2 violations within a 12-month period. For a third violation within a 12-month period, and for each subsequent violation thereafter, the person is subject to a civil penalty of $5,000.00. An owner, operator, or driver of a motor vehicle who knowingly violates the prohibition against the sale or use of dyed diesel fuel upon the public roads or highways of this state is subject to a civil penalty equal to that imposed by section 6714 of the internal revenue code.

 

[CourierGuy]

That's for Michigan.. I'm sure it varies from state to state, let alone Canadian provinces. 200 bucks? That's cheap... Lol

I wonder about the internal revenue part though.....

 

[Tdijarhead]

I assume each state and probably the federal government would be different. Canada would be different yet again. I've been through road checks, and either gotten a wave through or inspection (sticker) ,license , insurance and registration . I don't even think they realized I was driving a diesel.

What about those that make their own? Veggie?

 

[jason_]

I can't write off commuting miles. If I don't claim it, why would the irs care? What if I had a pd or ve and ran a bunch of vegg oil?driving for free, how would irs know?

That sounds like the same boat if I took a bunch of solar panels and charged batteries that drive electric motors I rigged into my drive train one drunk weekend.

I paid taxes, can't claim it, and the roads are still garbage.

Loop holes. Is this much different, assuming I had my own business? http://www.businessmanagementdaily....ng-mileage-into-a-deductible-business-expense

I've never been tank checked. Reason I ask. Would pumping in jugs twice a week raise the eyebrow?

I pump gasoline all the time into jugs for my lawnmower, splitter, loader, etc.

I'm just curious of it'll encourage a phone call to have mdot chase down a red vw, who frequently buys diesel in jugs...

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Edit, heh, this might get locked. Feel free to pm suggestions and/or thoughts if it does.

 

[40X40]

I can't write off commuting miles. If I don't claim it, why would the irs care? What if I had a pd or ve and ran a bunch of vegg oil?driving for free, how would irs know?

That sounds like the same boat if I took a bunch of solar panels and charged batteries that drive electric motors I rigged into my drive train one drunk weekend.

I paid taxes, can't claim it, and the roads are still garbage.

Loop holes. Is this much different, assuming I had my own business? http://www.businessmanagementdaily....ng-mileage-into-a-deductible-business-expense

I've never been tank checked. Reason I ask. Would pumping in jugs twice a week raise the eyebrow?

I pump gasoline all the time into jugs for my lawnmower, splitter, loader, etc.

I'm just curious of it'll encourage a phone call to have mdot chase down a red vw, who frequently buys diesel in jugs...

Sent from my rooted HTC Supersonic using Tapatalk 2 Pro

Edit, heh, this might get locked. Feel free to pm suggestions and/or thoughts if it does.

Asking the folks here, that pay fuel taxes... how to ILLEGALLY avoid paying your share of fuel taxes.... While we continue to pay our share...

Real classy.

Bill

 

[jason_]

Asking the folks here, that pay fuel taxes... how to ILLEGALLY avoid paying your share of fuel taxes.... While we continue to pay our share...

Real classy.

Bill

until they tax waste oil, and prohibit running on public roads with home made fuel. i see no difference.

maybe i'll file a llc and do the loophole i linked? would that make you feel better? drive 50 miles to my 'office'. work for 5 mins. clock out, go to my full time job, then return to my 'office', work 5 mins, and drive back 50 miles? now i can legally write off 100 miles. and everything i need at my regular job? and not just fuel for THAT vehicle, now my 2nd vehicle i keep at my job, tools, clothes, notebook, pens, sunglasses, air freshener, stapler, paperclips, lunches....? shall i continue? i was just trying to do the fuel only, but if youre butthurt, i'll point out everything....

how about buisness damage because of low profit? probably could claim that and get a kickback at the end of the year too, because i only worked 10 mins a day. neighboor does it everyday with his crop. plans it. doesn't water it. dies. files the claim, uses 1/2 of the money to replant next year, pockets the other 1/2, rinse and repeat.

and i'm the weasel? HA....

 

[glick]

His mind is made up no matter what.

If you are concerned about how frequently you are filling the jugs, go to different stations. Putting it in your vehicle is already covered as a really bad idea.

 

[jason_]

His mind is made up no matter what.

If you are concerned about how frequently you are filling the jugs, go to different stations. Putting it in your vehicle is already covered as a really bad idea.

i knew it was not a good idea putting in fuel tank before i posted the 1st post.i've been around diesels and offroad, and understanding the 'dye' for quite sometime.

the only answer i got from my original question was monroe county, and that sounds like farm/open/country/ag situation. not a city slicker in a car....

 

[40X40]

until they tax waste oil, and prohibit running on public roads with home made fuel. i see no difference.

maybe i'll file a llc and do the loophole i linked? would that make you feel better? drive 50 miles to my 'office'. work for 5 mins. clock out, go to my full time job, then return to my 'office', work 5 mins, and drive back 50 miles? now i can legally write off 100 miles. and everything i need at my regular job? and not just fuel for THAT vehicle, tools, clothes, notebook, pens, sunglasses, air freshener, stapler, paperclips, lunches....? shall i continue? i was just trying to do the fuel only, but if youre butthurt, i'll point out everything....

If you do that, it would make you legal... which would kinda defeat your whole butt-hurt purpose, right? It would cost you much much more money (NET $, after all the lies) to do that than buy your fuel the honest way like the rest of us do.
Waste oil and homemade fuel are taxed too, but the cheap bastards usually claim they can't figure out how to file the taxes they owe... Yes, they are cheating the honest people too, why do you want to be like them??

There is right, and there is wrong. Arguing with people who refuse to see the difference is a waste of time.

I'm done, carry on.

Bill

 

[jason_]

i can't claim 56cents a mil for commuting.

so i'll pump in $2.10 fuel instead of $3.50, with a $10 jug.

honest or not. it's a savings in my book.

and it'll have to do until i get that llc filed


so to continue that waste oil taxes, how do you tax something that's given? when i ran my idi navistar, i poured straight waste oil in it from mcdonalds. no treating,nothing besides a filter. i got the fuel for $0. how would one claim that besides mileage, which the truck has a non ope ratable odometer.

 

[tdiatlast]

^^^"...honest or not..."?????????????????
Charming.

 

[Lug_Nut]

maybe i'll file a llc and do the loophole i linked? would that make you feel better? drive 50 miles to my 'office'. work for 5 mins. clock out, go to my full time job, then return to my 'office', work 5 mins, and drive back 50 miles? now i can legally write off 100 miles. and everything i need at my regular job?

I think you'll find that business mileage deduction does not count the "commute" from home to the "office", nor the return. When I had a telecommute job I was unable to claim the initial trip from home to whatever client location I was working that day as that was considered a 'commute'.
I got a PO box as a business mail address and used that 5 mile trip to the post office as my initial "commute" before heading out to wherever and collecting miles to deduct as legitimate business expense deductions from federal and state taxes.
By driving a diesel, and taking the flat-rate (rather than a vehicle itemized actual cost) off-set I made money, far more than just by shaving the per-gallon pump tax pittance.

F.W.I.W.: my biodiesel is fully federally and state taxed at the pump.
The petrodiesel I purchase during the winter to thin out the B99 is as likely to go into a 5 gallon jug as directly into the car. No questions about dispensing into a jug have ever been asked other than to confirm the jug has the Mass. required aproval by the Commonwealth's fire marshal.
I could, if it weren't so involved, apply for a state tax abatement on the road-taxed gasoline for the chainsaw, walk-behind snowthrower and generator, and the road-taxed petrodiesel used in winter blends for the tractor. The tax is simply so low that the effort to search out a non-taxed fuel isn't worth it.
Even "non-taxed" fuel isn't tax-free. The imposition of road tax at the pump avoids the state sales tax. Off-road fuel isn't subject to the per-gallon road tax, but is subject to the percentage based sales tax.

 

[JDSwan87]

until they tax waste oil, and prohibit running on public roads with home made fuel. i see no difference.

maybe i'll file a llc and do the loophole i linked? would that make you feel better? drive 50 miles to my 'office'. work for 5 mins. clock out, go to my full time job, then return to my 'office', work 5 mins, and drive back 50 miles? now i can legally write off 100 miles. and everything i need at my regular job? and not just fuel for THAT vehicle, now my 2nd vehicle i keep at my job, tools, clothes, notebook, pens, sunglasses, air freshener, stapler, paperclips, lunches....? shall i continue? i was just trying to do the fuel only, but if youre butthurt, i'll point out everything....

how about buisness damage because of low profit? probably could claim that and get a kickback at the end of the year too, because i only worked 10 mins a day. neighboor does it everyday with his crop. plans it. doesn't water it. dies. files the claim, uses 1/2 of the money to replant next year, pockets the other 1/2, rinse and repeat.

and i'm the weasel? HA....

In all actuality, homemade fuel (biodiesel, WVO,SVO etc) is SUPPOSED to be taxed. You are supposed to keep track and report how much homemade fuel you are using and pay a road tax on it. There is a local guy to me who has been making and running bio in his 5.9 Cummins for at least the last 10 years. I've talked with him and he informed me of this. He also sells soap with the "waste" from the creation of biodiesel. FYI the soap works alright, the bar I was given was a prototype, smelled like peanut butter. Now he sells his soap in wholistic (green/organic) stores.

 

[jason_]

I think you'll find that business mileage deduction does not count the "commute" from home to the "office", nor the return.

if my llc says my home is my business, mile zero is where i can begin claiming.

maybe i worded it incorrectly. and it sounds like i may just legally shaft the government. sounds like it's supported on this site.


but once again. raise your hand if DOT has dipped your tank? road tractors, tandems, 1ton+ commercial doesn't count...

 

[JDSwan87]

if my llc says my home is my business, mile zero is where i can begin claiming.

maybe i worded it incorrectly. and it sounds like i may just legally shaft the government. sounds like it's supported on this site.


but once again. raise your hand if DOT has dipped your tank? road tractors, tandems, 1ton+ commercial doesn't count...

Does my dad count? Hauls travel trailers for a living and had his 2500 Cummins tank dipped. He got pulled over for a burned out license plate light on his truck (he was on his way back from dropping a trailer). Officer stopped him, asked for insurance etc and when he saw he was on contract to his hauling company, called to have his tank dipped. Then let him go with no ticket, nothing...

Edit: I'm not arguing or anything, I'm merely sharing my experience.

 

[tdiatlast]

...honest or not. it's a savings in my book...

.

This attitude is yet more proof that w/o adequate enforcement, laws are meaningless to those without any ethical core.

 

[Ol'Rattler]

For the relatively small amount of fuel a TDI burns, it seems real stupid to avoid the road tax. I guess for some, the stupid gene is in full control....................

 

[jason_]

and lets go one more step

electric cars. how do i pay taxes on electrons? measure amp draw and pay road taxes per watt consumed? do i get taxed per square inch on the solar panels?

i fitted and installed electric drive on my vw. now i can drive for free when the sun is out, or when i'm home i can juice them from my solar panel stash. just swap batteries.

how does one pay fuel taxes on a vehicle that doesn't burn fuel? i may be going a step out, but since we're supposed to tax the fuel in burn, home made or not, oil or electric....right?

 

[tdiatlast]

Road taxes need to be paid by all who benefit from using the roads. It's only a matter of time before legislation will catch up to those that use the roads w/o paying appropriate taxes.
Until then, current laws are still in force.
If you use off-road fuel on-road, w/o paying appropriate taxes, YOU are breaking the law. Period.
There's an old saying, ignored by too many: "Let your conscience be your guide."

 

[jason_]

Road taxes need to be paid by all who benefit from using the roads. It's only a matter of time before legislation will catch up to those that use the roads w/o paying appropriate taxes.
Until then, current laws are still in force.
If you use off-road fuel on-road, w/o paying appropriate taxes, YOU are breaking the law. Period.
There's an old saying, ignored by too many: "Let your conscience be your guide."

rewind, and i convert my car to electric. there is no fuel to purchase. government can't stop the sun.

am i then taxed per mile?

 

[Rico567]

The issue over how / who pays will be academic soon enough. The bureaucracy is already working out the kinks in a pay by the mile system. Taxing fuel worked well enough for a while, but it's clearly not going to address the main issue, put concisely and well by "tidiatlast": "Road taxes need to be paid by all who benefit from using the roads."
With electric cars in particular, this becomes difficult if not impossible to do by taxing the pipeline of the power source, so it's back to the days of the original "turnpikes" in colonial times and the early days of the Republic. You pay as you go. If you look at all the automatic systems currently in place on the nation's tollways, it's just a question of scaling it up....

 

[glick]

I won't be surprised to see it tied into the license renewal. When you register your vehicle around here you also have to provide the odometer reading. Seems like an appropriate place to try to shoe horn in a "pay per mile/km" tax. Of course that would not be quite fair for interstate/provincial/country drivers but it seems like an appropriate place to do it.

Question would be that if the road tax is moved to something else would they remove the tax from fuel? I tend to think "No".

 

[VeeDubTDI]

This thread is a whole bunch of nope. Figure out how to be a tax cheat by yourself.