Fuel Question

Ferbie

Active member
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Location
Alliston, ON, Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
Ok, I have searched the forum for a while, and can't really find a lot of info on Pioneer diesel. I found a 4 year old thread, but wonder if stuff has since changed.

My question is pretty specific. I live and fuel up in Alliston, and have been using the Sunoco here exclusively (Sunoco Gold). They are really starting to piss me off though; they don't post the price anymore, and it's way higher than everybody else (seems to be the sunoco trend right now).

What really prompted this thread was filling up yesterday, i started pumping the diesel for 99.9, then noticed the the Pioneer down the road had a sign that said 92.9!!! In Alliston we have Sunoco, Pioneer and Esso. The Pioneer and Esso are usually the same price... and the 8 CENT higher price at Sunoco was the last straw.

What fuel would you guys choose if your options were Sunoco Gold at way higher price, Pioneer, or Esso? Reasons? All suggestions / opinions welcome!!
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
I used Sunoco Gold religouosly for about 3 yrs and just started using Esso in the last 3 fills, haven't noticed any gains in economy or power.
Next I'll be trying PetroCanada for a bit, but price point would be Esso.
I used to run Pioneer at first in '04-'05, but saw a difference in milage and never went back.
 

OhMagoo

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2005
Location
Barrie ON
TDI
'05 Jetta, '05 Passat
That Pioneer diesel will have been loaded at Sunoco in Toronto. The same base fuel as Sunoco Gold but without the additive that makes Gold, Gold.
 

PewterTDI

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Location
Toronto
TDI
1999 MK4 golf Pewter, Lowered, Angel-eye projectors with 10,000k HID's
I use pioneer almost religiously as there is one close to my work after using others for me I say it's the same.
 

soundchk

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Location
Barrie, ON
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI Highline - Graphite Blue
What about Shell V-Power diesel? Does the Shell in Alliston have it? It's usually only a couple cents more than the regular and it's apparently as good as Sunoco ... It was 96.9 on Mapleview in Barrie last time I looked. Base was 94.9 ...

Never used Pioneer before, not even for gas. I always try to stick to Shell, or Petro-Can ... They always seem to be very clean and well kept, which leads me to believe that they take good care of the fuel tanks, and pumps as well ...
 

OmegaRenegade

Vendor
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Location
Brampton
TDI
2004 Jetta
sometimes i think we all worry too much about brands of fuel we put into our car.

I recommend filling up at a high volume outlet that tends to get a lot of diesel traffic. If your worried about cetane levels and lubricity for your injection pump then add some Power Service or other fuel additive to your tank prior to filling up.

+/- 50km's on a tank could be more related to driving habits then the fuel your putting in.

Stick to a high volume outlet and you cant go wrong!
 

SheeB

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS Manual
I was using Pioneer here and noticed a drop in mpg's and the motor seemed to be louder when running. Switched back to Esso and the motor runs more quiet and mpg's are back up. I think the Esso sells more diesel, so the quality of the fuel at Pioneer could be suspect.
 

Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
OmegaRenegade said:
sometimes i think we all worry too much about brands of fuel we put into our car.

I recommend filling up at a high volume outlet that tends to get a lot of diesel traffic. If your worried about cetane levels and lubricity for your injection pump then add some Power Service or other fuel additive to your tank prior to filling up.

+/- 50km's on a tank could be more related to driving habits then the fuel your putting in.

Stick to a high volume outlet and you cant go wrong!
I am going to have to disagree with you here. My last 2.5 tanks have been with Shell. Both were over 1300km each and the 3rd is on pace for the same (MFA shows I'm good to 1400km). I had never gotten over 1200km previously using Sunoco Gold exclusively. My commute is the same everyday. Same mileage, same traffic conditions, same driving habits. Its almost like Shell never switched to a winter blend or something. I know I lost mileage with Sunoco when it got cold.
 

OmegaRenegade

Vendor
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Location
Brampton
TDI
2004 Jetta
Wingnut said:
I am going to have to disagree with you here. My last 2.5 tanks have been with Shell. Both were over 1300km each and the 3rd is on pace for the same (MFA shows I'm good to 1400km). I had never gotten over 1200km previously using Sunoco Gold exclusively. My commute is the same everyday. Same mileage, same traffic conditions, same driving habits. Its almost like Shell never switched to a winter blend or something. I know I lost mileage with Sunoco when it got cold.
Only time i see those kinds of number for mileage is if i'm doing all highway. And yes i agree in that case i've noticed a difference in fuel in how far i can travel. I usually get the best mileage out of Husky fuel which i seem to remember Magoo saying is the same as Esso.

For me running around the city doing short jaunts with the occasional highway run here and there fuel brands made very little difference to the way the car ran or how far i could travel.

1300kms is rediculous! :eek::eek::eek:
 

Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
Its about 80% highway, 20% city. Mostly at 110-115kph. My trick is to never use CC. Anticipate stops & coast to red lights. Most of the time, I never use my brakes and can start accelerating from the light without having stopped at all. That saves a ton of fuel. The taller 5th gear helps too (thanks Omega). I blame it all on my MFA. Ever since I got that installed and can see exactly how much fuel I am using at any given time, my driving habits changed dramatically.
 

Tsagoth

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Location
Hanover, ON
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon Automatic
Ferbie said:
My question is pretty specific. I live and fuel up in Alliston, and have been using the Sunoco here exclusively (Sunoco Gold).
That's where I usually fuel up too. Since the Primrose Sunoco became a Petro station last week, I asked the Alliston guy when they were changing. He said they were Sunoco until August. My cold idle was pretty rough in the past with Pioneer, so I avoided them. Back then though, I think OhMagoo said they loaded from Esso, if they're Sunoco based now I'd switch over.

soundchk said:
What about Shell V-Power diesel? Does the Shell in Alliston have it?
I don't think Alliston has a Shell. The one in Cookstown supposedly sells diesel according to the website, but I've never stopped in to see if it's true.

Wingnut said:
I am going to have to disagree with you here. My last 2.5 tanks have been with Shell. Both were over 1300km each and the 3rd is on pace for the same (MFA shows I'm good to 1400km).
D@mn. I've never done better than 1150km and I have to stay below 90kph for even that.
 

valdemar71

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Location
Whitby,ON
TDI
' 05 Golf 5spd
I believe a lot of members here are running a tune that can improve fuel economy - more tq. Correct me if I'm wrong..
 

Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
Yes, you are correct. I am now running a tune from Malone Tuning and I also have a taller 5th gear. Combine both those factors with the adjusted driving style I have developed since installing my MFA, and I have incresed my average tank from 1100km to 1300km.

My last 3 tanks have been my best ever (over 1300km). I attribute that to a couple of factors. One, I switched from Sunoco to Shell. The temps have also been warmer, meaning less dense air, meaning less resistance. Here are some pics of my cluster I took today while driving to work:

800km and still about a 1/2 tank. I go about 300km before my needle moves off full, then 1000km from full to empty (125km per 1/8 hash mark):



MFA shows average economy at 4.4l/100k:


Distance till empty shows 640km (= 1440 total on this tank):
 
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Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
Up until 3 tanks ago, I had always uded Sunoco Gold. I noticed a drop in economy when the cold weather hit, but that was normal. Then a few weeks ago, I was on my way home and I thought I could make it with what I had in my tank, but as I got to Scarborough, I chickened out and stopped for fuel. I knew of a Shell on Warden, so thats where I got off the highway to fuel up. Unfortunately, they only had regular, but I had no choice, so thats what i filled up with. That tank, I got 1300km. The most I had ever got with this car (I've had it for 18 months). So since then, I have used Shell V-power. My last tank was 1350km and now this 3rd tank is on pace for 1400km.

My guess (and its just a guess) is that maybe Shell didn't change their formula to winter fuel and thats why I got good mileage again? My drop in economy with Sunoco was just before I added my tune and my 5th gear, so I thought they just cancelled each other out. But since using Shell, I have increaed my economy considerably. Maybe once Sunoco goes back to non winter fuel, I will switch back and see what kind of numbers I can get. But at the moment, I am super happy with my results from Shell. I also like to support Shell because they are the last station to still offer free air (at least in my area). I hate paying 50 cents for a top up of air at the Sunoco/Esso/Petro stations.
 

CmdrData

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2000
Location
North of 401, where the snow double/triple up!
TDI
2001 Golf - used to
Hhhmmm... so both Shell regular/V Power gave you better mpg. Have you noticed any loss of power with Shell regular? Since everytime I switch over from Gold to either Esso or PC, I can really feel the power loss and engine vibs lots more also but not with V Power (yield similar mpg as Gold).

As for the air pump, have you noticed the sign at Sunoco pump says the money are going to charity?! I say I'll decide which charity gets my money, so I asked the attendent to turn on the pump after I fill up the car.
 

Ferbie

Active member
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Location
Alliston, ON, Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
HAHA - this is why I love this place! You guys are on the ball, thanks for all the answers!!

OhMagoo said:
That Pioneer diesel will have been loaded at Sunoco in Toronto. The same base fuel as Sunoco Gold but without the additive that makes Gold, Gold.
How different is Sunoco regular from the Gold stuff? The Pioneer price is sure enticing...

soundchk said:
What about Shell V-Power diesel? Does the Shell in Alliston have it?
No Shell in Alliston. There is a Shell in Cookstown that sells diesel, but I have no idea if it's V-Power or not.

Tsagoth said:
That's where I usually fuel up too. Since the Primrose Sunoco became a Petro station last week, I asked the Alliston guy when they were changing. He said they were Sunoco until August. My cold idle was pretty rough in the past with Pioneer, so I avoided them. Back then though, I think OhMagoo said they loaded from Esso, if they're Sunoco based now I'd switch over.
Their pricing is friggin' retarded now, eh? I may give the Pioneer a try and see what happens.

I'm leery of the Esso station in town because it looks SUPER sketchy, but it seems busy when I drive by most days. I don't know how much diesel business them or the pioneer do, I know most people fill up their diesels at Sunoco here.
 

Tdi Kick

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Location
GTA
TDI
91 Sidekick AHU, '05 Passat Variant BHW, '03 Passat Variant BHW 4MO
Gold vs V-power

I'm with Wingnut. I had a similar experience. I've been running Gold pretty well exclusively in both the truck (mine) and car (wifes) since last year, and mileage has been pretty consistent for both vehicles, including the expected winter drop. I tried ESSO in my truck <AHU>, and it doesnt like it: runs louder, vibes more. Wifey's car<ALH> doesnt seem to mind ESSO too much, yet does get better mileage with Gold.

Now, I was up in North two weeks ago, and I too chickened out; I figured I *might* have enough fuel to get back into T.O., yet didn't want to chance it. I stopped at Shell in Barrie and filled V-power.

Now even my wife was dubious, as she's pretty educated about the cetane levels, yet the Sunoco didn;t have diesel...

Low and behold, that tank gave me a good 8% increase: went from 32 to 35 mpg US , so I've tested V-power a couple more tanks. Yup, more mileage. I cant really compare miles per TANK with you guys as the tank in the truck is only 11 gallons/40 litres: its TINY!

Winter average in my truck is about 32-33 consistent. My best summer tank last year (early Sept) was 37 mpg. Its been pretty warm here last few days, so I'm wondering if its NOT just the fuel. Further testing is necessary:D

I was kinda thinking the same thing as Wingnut: maybe Shell's blend didn't switch? I think that would affect winter cold starts though. I almost wish I was still in University... we could do all kinds of chemical analyses in that lab:p

Realistically, I feel a cost per mile analysis really needs to be done, ie does the higher mileage (if any) of a particular fuel justify the extra cost? I figure I'll do THAT once I achieve my goal: 40 plus MPG in a 4wd truck:D I REAAALLY want to hit that mark!

Cheers!
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
I recently filled with VPower and noticed I got my old milage back, aorund 360k at 3/4 full, somewhere in the hood of 5.9l/100 k, think I'll stay with Shell for a bit after using Gold for about 4 yrs.
 

OhMagoo

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2005
Location
Barrie ON
TDI
'05 Jetta, '05 Passat
Sunoco economy is slowly returning. I've noticed an improvement in power and economyin the big truck recently. I suspect for winter blends Shell does not reduce parafin content at the refinery level like Sunoco does. This would explain the economy differences
 

Wingnut

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Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
Here is how this last tank ended. 3rd in a row of best tanks ever.

Here is a snap I took just after the light came on. I was on my way to fill up when it happened:



Here is the distance till empty info. It just fell from 110km to 100 as I was taking the picture:



Sorry for the fuzzy pics, but it is a cell phone and I was travelling at 100kph.

I woudn't have made it to work and back with the light on, so I stopped just after these pics were taken so I could fill up at my regular spot for consistency. I filled up at 1350km with 57.5 liters of fuel (4.3l/100km). If I had pushed it, I would have made it to 1450km (aka the 900 mile club). I will try to time my next tank better so I can be closer to home when I hit 1450km. This warm weather has really helped.
 

mjhandy

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Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Location
Kitchener, Ontario
TDI
2009 Touareg TDI
MoldovaDIZEL said:
1300 omg
must be all highway at like no more than 110kms and a veryyyyy clean intake :D
950 if im lucky with venting
really? gotta be an auto? i can pull 1200 easy, though it's been ages i've ran that low for fuel.
 

MoldovaDIZEL

Vendor
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Location
Toronto/Guelph
TDI
mk4 TDI, 98 Cabrio AAZ
no,hence vr6 clutch
i get around 600 for first half,and than the other half drops fast!
2 of my injectors r leaky i think though:p
1.5km distances to school 20 times a week doesnt help..
 

LNXGUY

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Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
I've been doing like 130km/h constantly and I'm getting 1050/1100kms before the low fuel light comes on with my last 2 tanks of Shell V Power.

I think I'll drive 110 next week and see what happens.

valdemar71 said:
I believe a lot of members here are running a tune that can improve fuel economy - more tq. Correct me if I'm wrong..
It's not the torque that's giving you better mileage, it's injecting more fuel within the timing window and having a better burn/more complete combustion that does the trick. The repercussions of this are more HP and torque :) So they are just a bonus.

With just a nozzle upgrade you should easily see a 5% increase in mileage.
 
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JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
Looks like I'm stciking with VPower from now on.
Compared fill ups on my fuelly, and it shows a significant increase without driving adjustments.

From 34mpg to almost 39mpg, no brainer...
 
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