FrostHeater (zerostart) install/usage details

[NarfBLAST]

Today I plugged in my coolant heater for the first time, after 6 minutes I could feel the warmth getting into the block! Checked the scangauge and the temperature at the sensor had risen from 7°C to 35°C. I turned off the timer and set it to turn back on 1.5 hours before I start the car tomorrow...

The heater is a Zerostart unit that is rated at 1000W but my digital power meter is only reading 850W so the label is probably stating its "maximum" rating when variables like AC line voltage is highest and temperature is lowest causing the heating element to draw maximum current.

I chose the kit from TDIHeater.com and it took me three hours to install... seems like a long time for a drop in kit right? Well... Its a really tight area to work in, there was a lot of test fitting and preparation because I didn't want to loose much coolant, here is what I did:

- removed airbox, battery and battery tray
- separated upper and lower oil coolant hoses
- cleaned lower oil cooler hose ends with soapy water and a toothbrush
- positioned heater (with pre-installed hoses and clamps)
- spent an hour to trying to figure out the power steering pipe problem, finally bent the stainless steel clip aprox 1cm towards rear of car
- wrapped the power steering pipe with spare pieces of heater hose to prevent it from chafing on the zerostart heater body.
- with heater and hoses finally in a satisfactory position ready to install...
- made sure the zerostart outlet hose was higher than overflow reservoir
- clamped upper oil cooler hose
- clamped lower oil cooler hose
- removed lower oil cooler hose from lower oil cooler outlet, lost about 100ml fluid before I could get the lower (inlet) hose from the zerostart attached.
- removed clamp from upper oil cooler hose, coolant flowed from the oil cooler into the zerostart body then flowed up the outlet hose
- removed the other end of the lower oil cooler hose from the coolant glowplug area and quickly installed the hose from the outlet of the zerostart, only lost another 100ml of fluid.
- saved the hose I removed, in one piece, with original clamps, just in case
- with hoses attached finally mounted the bracket to the battery tray.
- installed a new battery, cleaned snow screen, installed air box
- topped up with aprox 250ml G12 and 250ml distilled water

The battery tray was out an in several times for fitting and trimming and I wanted to make sure everything was routed perfectly. The car specific instructions from FrostHeater were a huge confidence booster as I have never "messed with" a cooling system before and was paranoid about introducing any problems like air pockets or leaks.

Looking forward to easy starts this winter but also seeing if it is possible to defrost the windshield or heat the interior without starting the engine.

 

[johnnloki]

...possible to defrost the windshield or heat the interior without starting the engine.

Really bad idea with a cold battery, no?

 

[40X40]

Really bad idea with a cold battery, no?

HUH?

It runs off the house AC mains, not the car battery.

Or did I miss something? (I do that....)

Bill

 

[NarfBLAST]

The coolant heater plugs into an AC outlet yes.

Running the heater fan for the last 20 minutes or so before you start the car should not be that bad... by the way I got the idea from cattlerepairman over in this thread http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=224857

Another option might be to run an AC powered fan that somehow moves air past the heater core.

Another option might be to install a 1amp trickle charger to keep the battery topped up and slightly warmed and have that charger fed from the same AC line cord as the zerostart.

There is room in the left front fender well behind the horns for a power bar and the 1amp charger...

 

[40X40]

Narf,

I have a Frostheater on both of my 06 Jettas. (note my location)
I have found that if I leave my heater controls on defrost overnight the hot air partially clears my windsheild but doesn't heat the cabin much.
I also notice that the engine temp falls quickly(temporarily) after starting the car, but it is still a great improvement over a stone cold car.
The onboard battery tender/charger is interesting.. Keep us posted, please.

Bill

 

[NarfBLAST]

I have found that if I leave my heater controls on defrost overnight the hot air partially clears my windsheild but doesn't heat the cabin much.

Neat, that is just leaving the controls set for defrost, but you take the key out and the fan is not running, right? '06 is the new A5 design (different dashboard/vent system)?

 

[40X40]

Neat, that is just leaving the controls set for defrost, but you take the key out and the fan is not running, right? '06 is the new A5 design (different dashboard/vent system)?

Correct on both counts!

Bill

 

[NarfBLAST]

Due to a timer issue I didn't get a full test last night. Apparently after I reset my timer it did not reset the radio frequency that it responded to via remote control. When the sun came up the timer received a signal to shut off, 40 minutes before I went out to check/start the car. I've since made sure that it is not responding to that remote anymore.

Here is a picture of my power meter and my timer. These are mounted just on the inside of the garage door... the power cord runs out the corner of the door to the Golf in the driveway. I used a 150W work light for the lighting and hence the "145W" on the display. Nice thing about the meter is that it keeps track of kWh and also "time". The time thing is how I quickly figured out why the timer was "off" when it should have been "on".

The time function should come in very handy to track weather or not the Zerostart is cycling on and off or just on constantly.

 

[Greg_B]

Hey NarfBLAST,

Based on your energy meter readings, it would be very cool to hear your thoughts on how long to set the heater for to get the best "bang for the buck" in terms of heat vs. power usage.

Greg

 

[NarfBLAST]

Well it only got down to got down to 4degC last night. The timer had the power on for 2.5 hours and the meter also said 2.5 hours and 2.1 kWh (850W x 2.5h). This tells me that that the unit did not cycle off at all even at this above freezing temperature. The Scangauge read 75 degC when I turned the key to on and came down to 50 degC shortly after starting the engine, then started climbing again. Lots of warm air from the vents. Also the engine sounded great, like a warm engine! Also noticed a much better power from the start, that I wasn't afraid to use as soon as the gauge started climbing again (I would never rev/load a cold engine).

I don't think the power meter is going to really tell us anything other than the 1000W unit seems to actually consume 850W at a steady state, no cycling. The thermal cycling "safety" feature probably only comes into play if for some reason the system runs dry or isn't flowing properly it will prevent the unit from overheating. But as long as coolant is flowing properly I don't think cycling will occur. I guess I installed the hoses correctly!

There was a chart someone posted somewhere that basically showed that somewhere around 2 hours gave the maximum thermal benefit to the engine from the 1000W rated unit which correlates with most people's experiences. This varies with outside temperature and wind speed and engine insulation. Will need lots of experimentation, but the power meter won't really tell me anything, the key tools for this experiment will be the timer and the scangauge. I haven't heard alot a people giving actual numbers, mostly they say "the needle points straight up when I start it and drops right down right afterwards". Anyone with a Scangauge or VAG-COM or familiar with the sensors knows that the needle lies. There are two sensors. One less sensitive one for the instrument panel. And one highly accurate one for engine control unit and is available to you only if you connect VAG-COM or ScanGauge.

I'm also going to be adding foam insulation to my grilles, similar to a "winter front". Just to add another hard to measure variable.

 

[dr_p]

 

[NarfBLAST]

I received a private message with questions so I thought I would answer them here:

The 1000W (boxy shape) Zerostart comes in the TDIHeater kit for the A4 cars, things are probably different with the 1500W (round shape?) Zerostart. For the 1000W unit Absolutely any 120V timer should work. It need only be rated for 1000W or 8.5A continuous.

I highly recommend the kit for these reasons:

- The kit includes a straight hose for the bottom fitting and a hose with two 90 degree bends for the top. These hoses were researched and tested by Frostheater to work in the A4 chassis.
- The kit also includes a pre bolted bracket from the top of the Zerostart to the front passenger side corner of the battery tray with detailed instructions to drill one hole. A similar bracket might come with a Zerostart, I don't know. It is C shaped. It allows the Zerostart to hang maybe 5 inches below the tray.
- Detailed step by step instructions including pictures are included with the kit.
- A pre fitted waterproof cap came installed on my kit for only a few dollars more.

I hope I am not giving away too much information. I will not post any of the instructions or any of the specifications of the hoses or the bracket because I believe that the folks at Frostheater own that information and you can either purchase one of their kits or figure it out for yourself. Please take no offense but I think they have excellent product that is a great value and if you don't believe that then I am sorry but I hope you enjoy trying to modify your cooling system yourself.

Please no discussions in this thread on how to build this kit yourself. There are many other threads for that. Thanks.

 

[PharoahTDI]

Just my 2 cents on the heater. I have it and I love it. Just make sure that when you install it you make sure to protect the power steering line. It is a big pain to fix the hole that will eventually rub in the power steering line. Twice.

 

[LNXGUY]

The 1500W version is identical to the 1000W version Depends on which model you go with.

I only needed one additional hose with my Zerostart install, 3hrs before I leave for work is more then enough even in subzero temps.

 

[TDIFred]

Just my 2 cents on the heater. I have it and I love it. Just make sure that when you install it you make sure to protect the power steering line. It is a big pain to fix the hole that will eventually rub in the power steering line. Twice.

YEAH! Thanks for the tip! Follow that wise advice!

 

[blaz]

Passat

And if you have a 2004-2005 Passat, the Frostheater is the only way to go. It comes with a bizarre tubing connection and bracket that work like a charm. Truly well thought out.

Mounting it was a little tricky as it's in a tight spot.

My rule of thumb for heating is:
Not needed if warmer than 0C
1hr between 0 and -10C
2hr between -10 and -20C
3hr between -20 and -30C
4hr between -30 and -40C
Stay home it if it's any colder!

 

[tttthumper]

I installed my 1500W zerostart this past weekend along with my Defender plate.

Tested the heater on sunday and yesterday. This morning it was the first time it ran on the timer. I had it on for 1 hour. Started it up it was 63C, and then went down to 43C and started to move back up. it ws 0C this morning.
Will set it up for 2 hours tomorrow.

 

[NarfBLAST]

ttthumper, Good to hear you got yours in! Mine ran for 1.5 hours this morning and got similar results I think. (1000W unit) I try to run it more than two hours but left early this morning. I recall getting it up over 70 deg and having it not fall past 50 on another 0degC morning. Thanks for posting your actual numbers.

Gotta love the Scangauge for this, eh? I have mine set to diisplay intake air temperature over water temperature. Intake air usually bang on ambient temp outside at startup. Only thing is scangauge doesn't usually "power up" until engine starts. So I click the home button to wake it up when I turn the key to on... only problem there is if the glow plugs run too long the Scangauge goes back to sleep! D'oh! Anyway, still a great tool.

 

[NarfBLAST]

Ambient and IAT were not the same this morning... I guess the insulation in the grilles must be working! Here are my numbers this morning for ambient temperature, heater run time, intake air temp, max water temp, min water temp.

AMB: -5
HRS: 2.5
IAT: 1
MAX: 66
MIN: 47
comments: idled for 3 minutes before the Mrs drove off

 

[LNXGUY]

No need to idle for 3 mins Get in and go!

 

[NarfBLAST]

No need to idle for 3 mins Get in and go!

I agree totally, that is the whole point right! Problem is that my wife was taking the car and I wanted to see how far down the temperature would go... And asking her to collect this data, well...

 

[JetBlu]

No need to idle for 3 mins Get in and go!

That's the best part, go, go , go!!!

 

[LNXGUY]

I agree totally, that is the whole point right! Problem is that my wife was taking the car and I wanted to see how far down the temperature would go... And asking her to collect this data, well...

Women....

 

[KiTDI]

I had another issue with the heater. Last winter, my wife forgot to unplug the power and started backing up the car. The plug at the heat is a little damage from the pulling. Now, the plug becomes loose after a day of driving (probably b/c of vibration) and i have to push it back every evening.

Does anyone know where i could get that porwer cable??

PS: my wife didn't even see the 20ft power cable on the ground, she just drove off.

 

[NarfBLAST]

In Thunderbay I discovered you can loop the cord over the drivers mirror as a reminder.

 

[mo_focus]

In Thunderbay I discovered you can loop the cord over the drivers mirror as a reminder.

ha! i love that idea. That way you can never leave with it on.

 

[NarfBLAST]

Here are my numbers this morning for ambient temperature, heater run time, intake air temp, max water temp, min water temp.

AMB: -9
HRS: 2.5
IAT: -1
MAX: 66
MIN: 50

comments: started better than on a summer morning.

 

[LNXGUY]

In Thunderbay I discovered you can loop the cord over the drivers mirror as a reminder.

If I don't do that I leave with the cord still attached

I've done it a few times, the cord around the mirror is a great reminder.

 

[SheeB]

Just curious, but in my case I am quite often called into work at irregular hours so I cannot really use a timer and was thinking I would plug the the Frostheater in when I got home and leave it plugged in. Does the Frostheater have some kind of thermostat that turns it off/on or does it constantly run when plugged in to AC power? BTW, I do not pay for the hydro where my car is parked so thats not an issue ;-)

 

[MCR]

The standard Zerostarts have an overtemp thermostat. I'm not sure what the exact temperature is, but it is possible for it to cycle, especially if it's a 1500W model. There are also models of Zerostarts with 2 thermostats inside. One is the overtemp protection, and the other is a range thermostat that, for example, cycles the heater off at 80F and back on at 60F. That sounds like it would be nice, but I've actually got one, and it seems to be extremely counterproductive; it's like the heater heats up for a long time, then cools off quickly, and repeats. It needs more insulation to be as effective as you'd like. It's like you're paying the same amount, but you're not getting a warm car when you start it. I added a heavy-duty switch to mine to take the 60-80 thermostat out of the circuit. There are 3 models of this type, with 60-80, 80-100, and 100-120F ranges. If I were wanting to try this route today, I'd try the 100-120F model. Unfortunately, these are fairly expensive compared to the typical one-thermostat-only models.

For the usage you describe, I'd recommend one of the 750W Zerostarts, although a 1000W wouldn't be excessive. Perhaps someone else will comment on their experiences running at 1500W continuously.

My Zerostarts is a 60-80F 750W, with the 60-80 part bypassed by a big switch. I love the 750W because I feel a lot more comfortable loading the house circuit with 7A rather than 10A for the 1000W or 15A (approx) for the 1500W. I worry more about the safety rather than the cost. And I live in Southern Ohio, so it's not Canada. I'd have a hard time believing 750W wouldn't be enough, at least until you get in the range of -40.

{Edited to change "Frostheater" to "Zerostart".}