front wheel drive line fell out!

[Rapidrob]

I ordered the spring washers.

 

[volksguy]

www.buslab.com has the correct N0153711.
Outside diameter is exacty the size of the head of the bolt.
40 cents each.

 

[Steve Addy]

www.buslab.com has the correct N0153711.
Outside diameter is exacty the size of the head of the bolt.
40 cents each.

No where in the VW parts catalog for the B3/4 / Mk3 is this washer identified for a CV joint install.

VW never prescribed use of a washer for our cars, OTOH if you leave off the spacer (#10) you'll have problems.

Steve

 

[volksguy]

Absolutely Correct They were used on All
Year Model Vanagons !!!
Corporation Greed made cuts!!
Ford pintos fires could have been saved over a $11 part.
Never heard of Vanagon Axel's coming off.
And No you dont leave off the #10 spacer that transfers Even clamping ever!!!

What is this How to Fix and Help Othes
Or how to rig a VW

 

[volksguy]

O and leave off the thick bolt spacers and watch how the bolt caves into the thin CV joint cover.
VW engineers made that spacer because it was Necessary!!

 

[Steve Addy]

I thought #10 was considered to be the washer, just a special type of one.

O and leave off the thick bolt spacers and watch how the bolt caves into the thin CV joint cover.
VW engineers made that spacer because it was Necessary!!

It's sort of a washer, it spreads the force of the bolt over a portion of the surface of the boot flange, and as volksguy said, if you don't use it the flange can distort at the point where the bolt engages the flange.

Absolutely Correct They were used on All
Year Model Vanagons !!!
Corporation Greed made cuts!!
Ford pintos fires could have been saved over a $11 part.
Never heard of Vanagon Axel's coming off.
And No you dont leave off the #10 spacer that transfers Even clamping ever!!!

What is this How to Fix and Help Othes
Or how to rig a VW

The inboard CV joint on the Vanagon did not utilize the washer you suggested in fact it doesn't use one at all only the spacer. Only the outboard joint uses the washer, and the rationale for that usage we don't know about, however, I've changed numerous CV axles over the years, pulled, repacked joints, rebooted and reinstalled, swapped sides etc, and I've never had a bolt work it's way loose, even used bolts. Then again, I probably torque those bolts higher than what VW prescribes in the Bentley manual.

I'd hardly call following the prescribed Volkswagen parts list "rigging," but I guess if you need these to keep things together then usage of them is your choice.

Steve

 

[volksguy]

Well lets see i own 4 vanagons 1 1984 westfalla camper gas.
1 1982 westfalla camper diesel
2 1983 diesel 5 speed trasnsale passangers.
And What do you know They All have this 8mm safety lockwashers on BOTH
Sides of the CV joint Axel with the #10 spacer.
From the factory !!
In fact the link i gave www.buslab.com
Sells them at a kit of 12 for both sides.

Its ok to omit when your wrong we are all Human here

 

[Rapidrob]

The safety lock washers showed up from Buslab today.
Still no gaskets from Canada.

 

[thechoochlyman]

I literally just picked up two replacement CV axles today. I got some really bad knocking coming from one side on my return trip from florida, it seems the remans I keep getting warrantied from AutoZone last about three or four years before the grease dries up. I'm thinking about unclamping the boots on the outer end this time and filling it up with some nice red grease to replace the crappy stuff it comes with.

But as to the bolts backing out, pretty much every time I change my oil I check the bolts on the passenger side and they're loose. I'm going to clean out the holes with brake clean this time and use some red loctite on them. They really should have put left hand threads on that side, but I understand the confusion it would have caused. Lol maybe if I get desperate enough in the future I'll tap an output flange with M8 left hand threads and buy some special Allen head bolts from McMaster carr.

Edit: looks like the closest thing McMaster carr has is a 5/16 left hand cap screw that's 2 in long for about $13 each. Lol Guess I'll be buying extra long M8s and left-hand threading them myself.

 

[volksguy]

Use the factory N0153711 from www.buslab.com.
They were used on every Vanagon
They are seraided keeping the bolt from coming loose from Harmonics.
Red locktite can be a real pain

 

[Fahrvegnugen]

Maybe the threads on your flange are just worn out.

I had this happen to me where it was flopping around but didn't fall off. It was an aftermarket axle that came with the car. The bolts would screw in but get loose and back out. A VW axle fixed it. The process to get the axle on and off has caused me to give up. When the VW axle (a parts Dept new car warranty fabrication) sprang a leak I decided to go with GKN. It seems to be ok.

 

[Steve Addy]

Well lets see i own 4 vanagons 1 1984 westfalla camper gas.
1 1982 westfalla camper diesel
2 1983 diesel 5 speed trasnsale passangers.
And What do you know They All have this 8mm safety lockwashers on BOTH
Sides of the CV joint Axel with the #10 spacer.
From the factory !!
In fact the link i gave www.buslab.com
Sells them at a kit of 12 for both sides.

Its ok to omit when your wrong we are all Human here

You could be right, the graphic for the Vanagon doesn't show any for the inboard joints, yet in the count of what's needed it does say quantity 24, which would cover both sides, inner and outer.

However....as I said before, there's nothing in the parts catalog that suggests VW ever said use to these on MK2/3 or B3/4 cars, nothing.

You made a comment before that I dismissed...about "rigging" but in truth it's always been the installation of unspecified products that in my book constitutes rigging, and you should I think remember that....even if you believe that your 'good intentions' merit consideration.

As I said before, it's your choice, but please don't belittle others who have no need to install extras that weren't prescribed.

Steve

 

[Steve Addy]

I had this happen to me where it was flopping around but didn't fall off. It was an aftermarket axle that came with the car. The bolts would screw in but get loose and back out. A VW axle fixed it. The process to get the axle on and off has caused me to give up. When the VW axle (a parts Dept new car warranty fabrication) sprang a leak I decided to go with GKN. It seems to be ok.

I'm not a fan of some of these cv axles they sell now, seems that they don't last very long and there's really no explanation as to why.

I'd prefer to clean and repack an OE CV joint vs use a new one that has joints from unknown sources, even if I have to swap them from one side to the other.

Steve

 

[Abacus]

Use the factory N0153711 from www.buslab.com.
They were used on every Vanagon
They are seraided keeping the bolt from coming loose from Harmonics.
Red locktite can be a real pain

I‘m wondering when you’re going to stop comparing the A3/B4 to an antique vanagon. In case you haven’t noticed, they’re not the same.

Its ok to omit when your wrong we are all Human here

Still waiting for you to do the same.

 

[thechoochlyman]

Maybe the threads on your flange are just worn out. Loose bolts aren't a common problem for everyone. Also, the RH threads aren't at fault, since the 6 bolts are rotating a couple inches off of the flange axis, not rotating on the axis of their own threads.

Compare them to harmonic balancer bolts which are located even closer to the rotation axis, with only half the torque of axle bolts, and spinning much faster (at 60mph, wheels spin less than 700rpm). If rotational direction was a problem, those bolts would be backing out much more frequently than axle flanges.

I got through swapping the axles last night - all the holes seemed nice and tight. I used new Febi triple square bolts for the installation, maybe those will stay in place better than the cheap Allen head bolts I used last time.

I do understand that the rotational inertia shouldn't be enough to loosen them up, but if the mating threads are good there aren't a lot of other things that could be causing it - especially if it's just on one side. And the centrifugal forces exerted on those bolts are much different than the forces exerted on the harmonic balancer bolts. It's not constant speed that will cause them to loosen, it's the constant stopping and starting. Not trying to be argumentative, that's just what makes sense in my head. And I'm sure if Volkswagen engineers thought it required a left hand thread they would have put one on there. Lol

Anyway, I pulled down all the boots on my axles this time to use decent grease in them and reattached the boots with new clamps. Last time I swapped them was the first time I used the included grease in the inner joints, and that probably had something to do with the shorter lifespan.

 

[volksguy]

First Vanagons used the same inbord CV joint size. As B4 A3
Same hardware with a extra safety 8mm serrated locking washer.
When people come here with a problem they are Looking for a Fix to the Problem.
Not a On going Discussion on how (it never came with it )
Or leave parts off.
So lets help the people that have the problem.
If the 8mm safety lock washers dont fix it.
There is always the opinion to drill a .30 hole in each one and safety wire all together.

 

[Rapidrob]

When I do re-pack the coupling, I was going to use Molly-B grease. Should I use this grease or upgrade to something better?

 

[thechoochlyman]

When I do re-pack the coupling, I was going to use Molly-B grease. Should I use this grease or upgrade to something better?

Molybdenum grease should do very well. I put red Valvoline axle grease in mine this time around.

 

[Rapidrob]

The gaskets from Windex showed up today from Canada.
I packed the CV joint with a high grade of CV joint grease and aligned up all the holes. Lock-washers and tie plates were hand tightened.
A torque wrench was set up and tested in my vice and felt good. I torqued four of the bolts and was on number five when it snapped off at the flange.
Crap.
I took my Dremel tool with a diamond ball burr bit to center punch the broken off piece of bolt for drilling a hole for the Easy-Out and found the Dremels tool vibrations were so intense, the broken off piece unscrewed out of the back of the flange! ( clock wise rotation )
Now I have to find the part number for the bolt. I'm going to replace all six, I'm not going to chance another snapping off.
So close,so far away......

 

[Windex]

Getting there - glad our combined Postal services were able to cooperate

 

[thechoochlyman]

Now I have to find the part number for the bolt. I'm going to replace all six, I'm not going to chance another snapping off.
So close,so far away......

N91108201. Just ordered a set from ID parts.

Inner Axle Bolt Set [6] (All 5-Speed)

Set of 6 inner axle bolts for VWs with 5-speed transmissions.. Triple square head M8X48. You will need 6 bolts (2 sets) for each side. Original part number 893-407-237 now supersedes to N-911-082-0...

www.idparts.com

 

[Abacus]

Holy mother of cork, are those gaskets really $21 each from ID?

 

[thechoochlyman]

Holy mother of cork, are those gaskets really $21 each from ID?

Apparently so... I was going to buy some but decided not to for obvious reasons. I'll just cut my own for that price.

EDIT: I guess they're OEM VW? Try these from FCP...

Audi VW CV Joint Gasket - CRP 8D0407309

Audi VW CV Joint Gasket - CRP 8D0407309

www.fcpeuro.com

 

[Rapidrob]

I ordered 2 sets of bolts and they have been shipped already. Another week wait.

 

[thechoochlyman]

If you have a hardware store nearby you could just grab some 10.9 or 12.9 grade cap screws.

 

[Rapidrob]

Bolts showed up.
I installed the new bolts, lock washers, keeper plates and new grease. Torqued all bolts twice.
Test drove the car for 5 miles at 10-60 MPH. All good.
I'll be driving the car 100 miles this Saturday and will check the bolts again for tightness when I get back home.