Front crank seal leaking

[Itsmillertime88]

I took my 15 Jetta in for an oil change and while it was there I mentioned I have noticed the dipstick was low even though I was at 4k miles after my last oil change. Dealer came back and told me it was leaking enough they had to clean everything off and get a better look. Long story short they came back and told me the front crank seal is leaking and needs to be replaced. Was quoted $2300 because it takes 15 hours worth of labor and I should consider doing the water pump/timing belt because it would save on labor, doing both would be about $3600.

Couple questions I have for the group
Has anyone had a front crank seal replaced or start leaking around 100k? I have 101k miles and it seems premature but I know these don't have an interval to replace but I can't recall quoting a ton of crank seals with vehicles only having 100k ish miles on them when I was an advisor

Taking pricing aside, does the 15 hours sound right? I know more than likely a bunch of **** has to come out/down to get at the area but if they are doing the crank seal I would think the water pump/timing belt wouldn't be an extra $1300

Last question, has anyone had one replaced under powertrain warranty? I'm 1300 miles out but related to question #1 this seems to be premature and little frustrated I've already got this going on but I know cars are unpredictable.

 

[MrCypherr]

Well, considering the timing belt has to come off to do the job as per repair manual, I dont see where the extra $1300 is coming from cause there is no way the timing belt parts are that much. Something doesnt seem right.

 

[oilhammer]

First, did you actually SEE a leak under your car?

Second, the 2015s' engines (CVCA and CRUA) are well known for higher oil consumption than previous TDIs. While usually not as much as some of the VAG gas engines, they can often require periodic top ups between services.

There is no "front crank seal" on that engine, it is all part of the whole flange on the front of the engine, which in order to replace requires both the lower AND upper oil pans be removed in addition to undressing the whole front of the engine. That is why it is so expensive.

 

[pkhoury]

First, did you actually SEE a leak under your car?

Second, the 2015s' engines (CVCA and CRUA) are well known for higher oil consumption than previous TDIs. While usually not as much as some of the VAG gas engines, they can often require periodic top ups between services.

There is no "front crank seal" on that engine, it is all part of the whole flange on the front of the engine, which in order to replace requires both the lower AND upper oil pans be removed in addition to undressing the whole front of the engine. That is why it is so expensive.

Not something I look forward to, if I have to replace this on my mother's '15 GSW.

How much oil consumption are we talking between changes? Everything I have needs about a liter-ish about every 5K miles.

 

[oilhammer]

Half a liter per 600 miles is the "acceptable" VAG standard. Which is WAY high, I know. Even my 1/4 million mile AWM doesn't use that much. But as has been talked about repeatedly on these forums, they can consume enough to trigger the oil level (not pressure) warning within a couple thousand miles. Keep in mind, that these are the only 4 cyl TDIs sold here that are equipped with an oil level sensor. As such, this *may* skew the averages, as plenty of other TDIs could be using oil but if you never actually check it you'll never know.

I check the oil of EVERY engine that comes in our shop under my care. Every. Single. One. Regardless of why it is here. And since I am the ONLY one that touches the VAG products, they all get checked. So I have a fairly good dataset of cars to compare. And I agree with the anecdotal evidence reported here: the CVCA and CRUA engines are most often low on oil prior to service, and/or have had their low oil warnings come on for the customers and need a top up. While this is common for most of the VAG gas engines (and many of those DO have sensors), it isn't common for the TDIs prior to the 2015s.

To me, it is a big deal about nothing. Just keep the oil topped up. It is no more difficult to do that wiping your butt. And you already have the DEF to contend with, so just make it part of that regimen.

 

[Itsmillertime88]

First, did you actually SEE a leak under your car?

Second, the 2015s' engines (CVCA and CRUA) are well known for higher oil consumption than previous TDIs. While usually not as much as some of the VAG gas engines, they can often require periodic top ups between services.

There is no "front crank seal" on that engine, it is all part of the whole flange on the front of the engine, which in order to replace requires both the lower AND upper oil pans be removed in addition to undressing the whole front of the engine. That is why it is so expensive.

No I haven't noticed a leak. I still have the plastic belly pan under the engine so I'm imagining I wouldn't really notice anything with that installed but I could be wrong. I'm going to be paying attention closer to this and taking it to another shop for a 2nd opinion.

From your other comment I at least know that is what VAG considers "normal usage" but taking that into consideration and these engines are known for higher consumption does that start occurring around 100k? Just trying to get an idea for what to kind of expect.

I'm just starting to do my research on this so knowing there isn't a "front crank seal" that helps so I appreciate it. I talked to the dealer again and was quoted higher labor time than really what it should have been so to fix the leak and do the timing belt/water pump/pulleys (120k mile service that will need to be done soon anyway) comes out to $3300 ish. Unfortunately not a small chunk of change to drop at 101k miles.

 

[cwilliamson491]

reviving this thread. @Itsmillertime88 what was the solution to your problem?

I have a 2015 that I have noticed a leak, and wondering if its coming from my front main seal as well. I bought the car with 90k on it. Ive found at every oil change (10k OCI) that I have to clean up a good bit of oil all around the pan which appears to be coming from the front of the engine near the crank pulley. I'm almost at 130k and will be doing my TB here within the next month. After purchasing the car with 90k, I had to top off with about 1/4 quart in between oil changes. Now, I have to add almost a full quart between oil changes.

This is my 2nd CRUA (not the same car, previous car was totaled), and my first one did not consume any oil between OCI nor did I notice any leaks before its death at 152k miles (110k I put on myself).

I have not taken my car in for diagnostic inspection, bc I do not believe this is covered under the DG warranty... This isnt the first time ive read of a 2015 leaking oil/consuming oil, but this is my first experience with it. If I will have everything apart for the timing belt, should I take the chance and do the front main seal while i'm in there? Im not so much of a diagnostic mechanic, more of a parts changer. I like to do maintenance myself to learn, and ensure its done properly to spec. @oilhammer your wise words are always appreciated!

I have the factory service manual downloaded from erwin, so the instructions are there. Thanks for all your help!!

 

[oilhammer]

To replace the front flange, you need to take first the lower, then the upper, oil pans off. Then all the timing belt stuff, the sprocket, THEN the flange. It is a big job, and pretty much every one I see has some oil present in that area. Just another example of why plastic engine parts are a bad idea. And unfortunately, there is not yet an aluminum replacement available that I have found. So you may do all that work, and it'll still eventually leak. But if it is bad enough, then you probably should go ahead and plan on replacing it.

 

[TomJD]

I bought a 2015 Golf “new” in 2017 with 630 miles in San Antonio, Texas. As part of the dieselgate agreement, they did a fresh oil change (so they said).

I immediately drove it home to St. Louis. It used a tad bit of oil even on that trip. I wasn’t thrilled that my new car used oil but it has not gotten any worse. Granted, it only has 26,000 miles now (arguably one of the lowest TDIs in the country).

My point is, my car is “new” for all intents and purposes and it’s CRUA engine uses oil.

 

[oilhammer]

..... and sometimes the oil fill cap doesn't find its way back on and makes a mess..... or so I've heard...

 

[cwilliamson491]

To replace the front flange, you need to take first the lower, then the upper, oil pans off. Then all the timing belt stuff, the sprocket, THEN the flange. It is a big job, and pretty much every one I see has some oil present in that area. Just another example of why plastic engine parts are a bad idea. And unfortunately, there is not yet an aluminum replacement available that I have found. So you may do all that work, and it'll still eventually leak. But if it is bad enough, then you probably should go ahead and plan on replacing it.

thanks for your reply @oilhammer . it leaks a good bit by my standards, enough to use 3 or 4 rags for cleanup during an oil change. it makes the most sense to do it while i'm already in there for the TB. any recommendations on a good sealant I should use for this? Service manual says refer to the parts catalog but I do not currently have access to that.

 

[oilhammer]

I've had the best success with the AC-Delco branded engine sealant, comes in a tube (plenty to do several engines' worth of assembling), part number is 10-2006.