Front control arms, rear R32 bushing conversion

[rez311]

I heard that the R32 bushing can get pressed in the front control arms. It would replace the rear bushing on the control are. I was told that the stock bushing is very mushy and the R32 bushing is much stiffer. This would result in a much more responsive handeling Jetta.

Anyone have this stock R32 bushing part # off hand?

I am installing the Koni Sport kit on my TDI as soon as the kit arrives at my doorstep. I can't stand the stock suspension!

 

[Golf_GTDI]

If I recall this is the same thing as the Audi TT version of this conversion that is talked about a good bit in the non engine upgrades folder that is just below this one.

The AudiTT/R32 bushing is a solid piece whereas the stock bushing is sadly a bit soft. It will press right in and is a nice upgrade.

 

[rez311]

Cool! I'll hunt for the part # as I would like to get the bushign done at the same time the suspension is done.

 

[Turbodude1]

they have them at adirondack www.germanautoparts.com for $16.xx each. I have them in my a2 & my gf's a3. They are a nice upgrade and last a long time.

 

[rez311]

Wow. These polyurethane Bushing kit for the front control arm look like they would stiffen things up in front.

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Jetta/Suspension/29/4

I think I will order some stuff from them.

Thanks!

 

[Golf_GTDI]

I am but an acorn in the world of suspensions and such but Pyce has a level of understanding that I hope to one day grasp. He is NOT an advocate of poly and has a whole set of posts at Vortex as to why its a bad idea. Seems as if the stuff has so little flex that it gets hot and shears/melts and gums up things far worse than the worst rubber could.

 

[rez311]

I am but an acorn in the world of suspensions and such but Pyce has a level of understanding that I hope to one day grasp. He is NOT an advocate of poly and has a whole set of posts at Vortex as to why its a bad idea. Seems as if the stuff has so little flex that it gets hot and shears/melts and gums up things far worse than the worst rubber could.

Are you sure the heat has nothing to do with the heat from the gas engines?
4 cyl turbos and VR6 gassers get alot hotter than a TDI engine.

 

[gearhead]

VW Motor Sports uses the R32 bushing for their cars & not polyurethane

 

[kjmiller1]

I am but an acorn in the world of suspensions and such but Pyce has a level of understanding that I hope to one day grasp. He is NOT an advocate of poly and has a whole set of posts at Vortex as to why its a bad idea. Seems as if the stuff has so little flex that it gets hot and shears/melts and gums up things far worse than the worst rubber could.

I've never heard of polyurethane melting, even when used in my previous trucks in the hot desert during hours of abuse. I used poly busings in places like leaf springs. I used rubber in places like my radius arm mount. Use poly or delrin in places where it is used like a skateboard bearing. But places where the bushing will flex just from the suspension being articulated stick to rubber or heim or uniball.

I just looked under my car and looked at the bushing I think you are talking about. Stick to rubber. Even if the bushing doesn't flex enough to crack the poly over time, the poly is too stiff and will effect the articulation. That spot is screaming for some kind of spherical bearing.

 

[Vik F]

That spot is screaming for some kind of spherical bearing.

ya mean like these....

http://www.h2sport.com/products.php?productid=215

 

[kjmiller1]

yeah, thats exactly what I was thinking. Its funny I was just researching what I should do for my wheel hop problems and a spherical bearing replacing that rubber just might be the ticket. People talk about replacing engine mounts and what not, and I wouldn't argue against that because fwd cars are kind of foreign to me. But I'd think a spherical bearing right there would be equivalent to having a traction bar on leaf sprung cars.

$415 seems a bit pricey for me to avoid some wheel hop, but good spherical bearings aren't cheap.

 

[Golf_GTDI]

I'm honestly not sure which poly bits are going mushy but there are more than a few threads over at vortex from folks who had these fail under road and race conditions. Seems as if many work well while new and well lubed but after a while they end up being far worse than even the worst old worn out rubber.

Now I can see situations when this would not be an issue but they may be the exception and not tue rule.

As for wheel hop and such, I would LOVE to find a way to get rid of some. I honestly have no idea what sort of times I'm running because I just can not launch hard. The car will eat itself if I do. I'm looking forward to seeing if my new tires/wheels and front end help but time will tell. I need to find something seeing as its only going to be faster in the near future.

 

[Growler]

I have the TT bushings in my 2000 NB control arms. Wheel hop seems much improved, brake feel is more direct. body roll seems reduced. all on my stock struts/springs/sways at 72k miles.

this is an upgrade WELL worth the effort. Get the Audi Parts.

 

[gearhead]

I can vouch for Growlers solid rubber TT bushings and the increase in steering & brake feel.

 

[TeleDawg]

... I'll hunt for the part # ...

Here is the part number.

According to ETKA the Audi TT and R32 both use the same part:

8N0 407 181 B

(1stvwparts.com has them for $12.76 each)

Just for the record, the part number for the stock A4 chassis is:

1J0 407 181

Sounds like a good upgrade...

T.D.

 

[grnmtnjj]

I had the poly bushings installed after the OEM's wore out. I now have lots of squeaking noise going over bumps, and it appears that the rear bushings don't fit very well (they slide a little). I think I'm gonna switch all back to rubber.

 

[oldpoopie]

I had the poly bushings installed after the OEM's wore out. I now have lots of squeaking noise going over bumps, and it appears that the rear bushings don't fit very well (they slide a little). I think I'm gonna switch all back to rubber.

I've had my poly in for about 20k miles, no squeaking here. Did they use enough lube on them?

 

[20IndigoBlue02]

I'm honestly not sure which poly bits are going mushy but there are more than a few threads over at vortex from folks who had these fail under road and race conditions. Seems as if many work well while new and well lubed but after a while they end up being far worse than even the worst old worn out rubber.

Now I can see situations when this would not be an issue but they may be the exception and not tue rule.

As for wheel hop and such, I would LOVE to find a way to get rid of some. I honestly have no idea what sort of times I'm running because I just can not launch hard. The car will eat itself if I do. I'm looking forward to seeing if my new tires/wheels and front end help but time will tell. I need to find something seeing as its only going to be faster in the near future.

Jon doesn't like them because they will crack (and fail) under race conditions (especially gravel rallying....rallycrossing, etc).

 

[Variant TDI]

I only went with poly in the front bushing. The way the rear one flexes makes it a poor place for poly. The R32 bushing is stiffer, but allows easy pivoting movement of the A-Arm... without allowing front/back/side to side movement.

I went with the Autotech ones for the front because they're a little more plyable than the Prothane. (We'll see). As they come... The front ones aren't the correct size. They won't fit back into the subframe. If you trim them, they'll fit, but if you leave too much, they'll make alot of noise, and introduce alot of friction (if not frequently lubed). If they're too short, they'll allow front/back movement.

I won't be back on the road for a little while, but we'll see if I trimmed mine right.

 

[dkuster]

Is there a "how to" for replacing the lower control arm bushing?

I've only seen several references to the fact that you need some
special tools (a press), and even then it's a PITA to do...

 

[jasonTDI]

I'll update. These are a sweet mod. REALLY tightens up the front end. About 6K miles now.

 

[frugality]

Good to know, as I just ordered some TT/R32 bushings to install at the same time as my new Koni FSD shocks. Is this a DIY, or is it best handled by a shop or a very seasoned shadetree mechanic? Hey, even better....this is just an off-the-cuff idea.....got room on your schedule for installing my FSD's and these A-arm bushings sometime in mid-late March? Maybe I can work out a trip back to Mad-town...

 

[Variant TDI]

Thy only go in/out one way. It's fairly obvious to someone with minimal wrenching experience which way they should come out.
Personally, I set the arms up on the edge of a strong workbench and beat on the inner metal sleeve with a regular 2 pound hammer. On one... the entire bushing popped out. On the other... the rubber broke, leaving the outer ring in the a-arm. I then used a screwdriver to pry the inner ring into a taco, and it fell out.

Getting them in is a little harder. I used my cheap vise and various pieces of wood to install one of them. It worked, but vise stripped out.

I took the other one to work and used a manual 1 ton arbor press. Pushed right in no problems. Should have done that on the other one, but I was impatient.

 

[Turbodude1]

get a cheap air chiesel and knock the old bushing in a little, then push it out. Takes 10 minute.

How do you guys pop out the ball joints on MKIV's? I've only done this on MKII's & MKIII's.

 

[Doc_Oc]

Had prothane in both bushings on the control arm for 25000 now. No squiking. No clunking...GOOD handling.
Now....wheel hop. The control arm bushing might help a tad. But just that litle. What helps the most is the dog bone.
In my car...stock at the time...I changed control arm bushings and dog bone bushings to prothane....NO WHEEL HOP WHATSOEVER. I didn't like the dog bone...too much vibration and went back to stock dog bone. Wheel hop is back just like in the beggining.
So, my opinion is that wheel hop can be slightly improved by suspension mods...but it is only addressed properly by using stiffer mounts. Especialy dog bone.
If I would go with prothane/urethane again? Probably not but just becouse I found the spherical bearings. If you want to go the best way...there you have it. Otherwise...I guess the ruber TT R32 ones are very good too.

 

[oldpoopie]

Doc oc. Try using only one of the prothane inserts in the dogbone. Replace only the softer of the two rubber pieces, then if you really want to, you can cut about 1/4" off the internal shaft to allow squeezing the assembly a bit more. TTake the piece you cut off and use it as a washer on the bolt so the bolt isnt too long. Its still comfortable to be in the car, but tightens up the assembly quite a bit.

 

[Doc_Oc]

Doc oc. Try using only one of the prothane inserts in the dogbone. Replace only the softer of the two rubber pieces, then if you really want to, you can cut about 1/4" off the internal shaft to allow squeezing the assembly a bit more. TTake the piece you cut off and use it as a washer on the bolt so the bolt isnt too long. Its still comfortable to be in the car, but tightens up the assembly quite a bit.

Thx Oldpoopie, I read on your findings on this one allready That's what I plan on doing. Especially since the car is getting chiped on Saturday. 216's + Unitronic Stage 2/3 (we'll see which one).
Damn...the H2sport spindles and control arm look sweet, don't they???? I want to switch to GTI spindles anyways...if I don't find cheap ones...h2sport might have me as a client

 

[Doc_Oc]

Update:
I changed the ball joints, tie rods and sway bar bushing. I had a clonking noise in there..thought is from one of those. They were gonne alright but...the cloncking is still there. Guess what is left to change???? LCA BUSHINGS. THE PROTHANE ONES. They are toasted. After less than 30kkm. I got the R32/TT bushings...now I think I made a mistake and I ordered the front ones too...and they might not fit. Anybody knows? I'll let you know in 2 days, as I am swaping them soon.

 

[BoosTDIt]

guys DON"T get the poly/prothane LCA stuff....
they're useless

Volkswagen .:Racing uses in ALL of it's cars and in all of the VW .:R catalogs - Touring,Kit Car, Group N - it's the same part numbers for the LCA bushings as in the ones for the TT/R32
p# 8N0-407-181-B x2

get the R32/TT rear ones and don't mess with the front ones...they're fine and same p# as in the R32/TT too

Wheel hop...heeh
this is actually a combination of all the components but as noted earlier - mostly the dog bone...

The "chopped" Dog-bone mod was pioneered one day with me and RC Jeff looong time ago...he had that idea of compressing the stock rubber and we experimented on my car...any way i have since came up with a version 2 and am now TOTALY AGAINST the "chopped" mod
i came up with a much much better solution and the comprehensive explanation is here - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=134923 - don't feel like story telling again
go read up there you'll see my findings - all 3 US engines have different Dog-bones internaly...i tried really hard to get a hold of a VW.:R Dog-Bone too an opened it there lies the answer

Yes you can have a comfy ride and no wheel hop in a TDI but it takes ALL the updated components in the right way

i'm running currently:
- VF Engineering Engine and Transmition mounts
- VF Engineering FSB End-links
- WRD 21mm FSB bushings
- WRD steering rack bushings - [waiting to go in with my R32 rack&pinion]
- OEM TDI Dog-Bone with OEM rubber modyfied internals and compressed
- R32/TT LCA bushings - no need for bearings here exept for ROAD race only...but even VW .:R doesn't use them (look in the Touring VW.:R MS Catalog)
- Ground Control true ballbearing strutmount/camber plates (allows for top side camber/caster correction - all the rest give you only camber)

Last but not least - the spring rate ...don't have my mind set on those yet [for spirited street] but with the right choice of spring rate...you should totaly elliminate wheel hop WITHOUT the need of a overkill solid Dog-bone

hope that helps