From My Cold Dead Hands

lawnarjax

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Location
Jacksonville Fl
TDI
2015 GSW TDI SEL, 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, 1994 Safari Trek (Isuzu 4BD2TC)
Unlike some owners out there crying to the media over how VW hurt their feelings, I am a proud owner of two 2010 TDI JSW's. I bought both within the same 4 month period before all this crap went down. I bought them for the tremendous savings over driving a 5.7L V8. I drive mine for work, and am paid 54 cents a mile(57 last year). In the time since I purchased both vehicles(April 2015) I have driven enough to off both cars and cover all maintenance, registrations, tires, all of it. Free cars. Now on top of the goodwill package VW wants to give me another $5100 per car AND I get to continue to drive(make money) for potentially another 2 years while they come up with a fix, at which point I will still have the option to sell it back to them for the 2015 value(with a mileage adjustment)? I am laughing all the way to the bank. Best cars I have ever bought hands down, both in terms of value, quality, and utility. Where is a VW exec I can kiss?

Here is another thing, what happens if 50-60% of these cars are sold back in the next 2 years? Can VW fix and resell these? If not, does my 200K JSW become a rare and prized unicorn? Could I potentially sell it to a private party for more than VW will pay me? Oh the possibilities.

Time will tell, but like I said, for now they will have to pry my key fob from my cold dead hand.
 

South Coast Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI wagon
Unlike some owners out there crying to the media over how VW hurt their feelings, I am a proud owner of two 2010 TDI JSW's. I bought both within the same 4 month period before all this crap went down. I bought them for the tremendous savings over driving a 5.7L V8. I drive mine for work, and am paid 54 cents a mile(57 last year). In the time since I purchased both vehicles(April 2015) I have driven enough to off both cars and cover all maintenance, registrations, tires, all of it. Free cars. Now on top of the goodwill package VW wants to give me another $5100 per car AND I get to continue to drive(make money) for potentially another 2 years while they come up with a fix, at which point I will still have the option to sell it back to them for the 2015 value(with a mileage adjustment)? I am laughing all the way to the bank. Best cars I have ever bought hands down, both in terms of value, quality, and utility. Where is a VW exec I can kiss?

Here is another thing, what happens if 50-60% of these cars are sold back in the next 2 years? Can VW fix and resell these? If not, does my 200K JSW become a rare and prized unicorn? Could I potentially sell it to a private party for more than VW will pay me? Oh the possibilities.

Time will tell, but like I said, for now they will have to pry my key fob from my cold dead hand.
Nope. Just too many of these econo-cars out there to ever be demand a premium price.
 

r11

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Location
NJ
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE 6MT (BB'd), 2015 Passat TDI SE 6MT
A small correction - you shall get the $5100, per, only after the fix, if any, is devised/approved/applied.

However, there's a possibility of collecting both the fix payment and the ~buyback payment, but only if the fix "lemons" your car
 

GetMore

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Location
Patterson, New York
TDI
1997 Passat TDI, 2010 Jetta Sportwagen
r11, I believe you can have the fix done, collect the restitution, and possibly still sell the car back, but I don't think you will get the restitution the second time. You will wind up with the same amount as if you just sold it back. However, I have not seen the document spelling out exactly what you get and what is required.

OP, as r11 said, the $5,100 will only be paid AFTER the fix is done. So, if you want to keep the car, and no fix is approved, you might get nothing.

Now, VW has to fix or destroy 85% of the effected cars. If they don't they get fined, something like 85 million per percent, which works out to about $17,000 per car. If enough people want to fix their cars, and it never materializes, and that created too low a percentage of bought back cars, then maybe (probably after another class action suit) you could collect on the depreciated value, since you would not be compensated in any other way.
I would not count on it, since the fine is about the average vehicle value for the effected cars, so VW will already be paying out about what they would have if the cars were sold back to them. You would be costing them money, but some others would be saving them money, so I don't see them taking it on a case-by-case basis and sweetening the pot for some. They only have to pay on each percent under 85%, so the only way this lawsuit costs them more is if EVERYBODY sold their cars back.
They are counting on some people to do nothing. They might be hoping most people fix their cars, but they are probably counting on only a few (percent) to go for the fix.
Seeing how the EPA is approving lower standards (higher levels of pollutants) for the fixed cars, I am confident they can develop a fix. A fix that does not affect the power and economy of the cars? Not so much. However, in the case of your car (and mine), they have been saying something about them meeting the advertised fuel economy. So, those that got great mileage will lose out, it will only be sticker afterward. I would probably have a legitimate complaint, since my car usually only did about sticker.
 

philip_g

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
none
TDI
jetta
Maybe the fix money will fix the dpf or the hpfp or whatever the next catastrophic failure to come along will be. Good luck.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
Maybe the fix money will fix the dpf or the hpfp or whatever the next catastrophic failure to come along will be. Good luck.
Of course, the fix includes an extended warranty on both of those parts, reducing the odds that you'll need to pay to fix or replace them in the first place.
 

RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
I wouldn't get overly excited about your car getting fixed until it's an option that is actually available. Especially with a 2010. If every owner here put 200k on their cars and got the money back you wouldn't see any complaints from sane people. The problem for most people unhappy with the deal is they just bought their car and haven't even put 1/10th of the mileage you have and the buy back is a few grand less than they paid for the car so the deal is luke warm for those people.

Also no, your economy diesel wagon with 200k on it will never be worth more than the buyback offer you have received from VW. If I had a car with 200k on the clock and the fix was several years away which is likely for the older cars (12 months at least I would bet) than I would take the buy back the day it was available before you end up losing any of the money to a costly repair.
 

bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
Unlike some owners out there crying to the media over how VW hurt their feelings.... Where is a VW exec I can kiss?
:rolleyes:

For every TDI owner who is "crying over how VW hurt their feelings", if any exist, there are dozens of us who love the tdi we thought we bought and are unhappy that VW cheated to give us that car. We thought we bought fuel economy, performance, and compliance with existing law. We learned that you can't have all three after all. To keep the car we have to accept a "fix" that doesn't yet exist and may reduce economy and peformance in order to comply. Or, we can keep the car and risk being out of compliance and unable to register our cars. Or, we can sell the car back to VW.

The class action settlement isn't intended to compensate for "hurt feelings." It puts economic economic incentives in place to tempt tdi owners to either give up their non-compliant tdis or allow VW to put the tdis into compliance.

I'm glad you like your tdi. I do, too. But I'm not rushing out to kiss any VW execs over it.
 

speedrye

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Location
Central NC
TDI
13 JSW DSG, 14 JSW DSG
Of course, the fix includes an extended warranty on both of those parts, reducing the odds that you'll need to pay to fix or replace them in the first place.
Too bad that warranty still won't cover the "bad fuel" issues and warranty denials based on it.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
If an HPFP failure is caused by bad fuel, you should be able to take that up with the fuel vendor. I've seen at least a few people who have had success doing that.
 

GetMore

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Location
Patterson, New York
TDI
1997 Passat TDI, 2010 Jetta Sportwagen
Yes, if they can prove that it is bad fuel then the vendor will take care of it. Most of the time they like to simply claim the fuel is bad, without proof.

RollingCoal, I have a '10, and it's value is significantly less that the '11s. I am upset about that, especially since my car also cost more than the '11s. I can't blame VW for that, so I'll blame NADA. It might or might not be justified, but it doesn't matter, because that's just the way it is.
I don't have 200,000 miles on it yet, but even if I did I wouldn't give the car up immediately. I would drive it until an expensive repair came up. Hell, I have to replace the DMF in mine, and I probably will. I expect to keep the car until late in 2018, at which point I might have 200,000 miles, and I don't forsee any big repairs in that timeframe. If I get another 60-70,000 miles from the car I guess I am really ahead, especially if I remember to set aside money toward the new car. Yes, I will lose about $1,000 from the extra mileage, but no more depreciation than that. Not bad, when you think about it, is it?
 

RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
I'm in the same boat with the 2015's having a bit of a weaker offer. At this point in leaning towards driving it until about 1 mile before the warranty is up and turning it in. I have to double check what the offer will be with the miles I'm likely to have at the time and make sure it puts the same or more money in my pocket at the ratio my loan is going down. Interest on my auto loan is 2.9% so I think it will probably put an extra couple grand in my pocket.
 

VWTDIWV

Active member
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Location
Barboursville WV
TDI
'13 Jetta
I've decided on riding it out, I truly love this car!
It's my first VW and non 4x4 of any kind.
I bought it Aug '15 for $14,950 w 16,500 miles - the goodwill I'm in this car $13,950 + taxes. @44,500 miles now.

If there's a fix, I'll take it, the extended warranty and $
Then when warranty is gone I'll use the $ to delete the DPF etc and roll on till it dies!

If I could afford it I'd buy a second one.
 

Tornado TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Location
Chilliwack, British Columbia
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI Highline 6MT
I've decided on riding it out, I truly love this car!
It's my first VW and non 4x4 of any kind.
I bought it Aug '15 for $14,950 w 16,500 miles - the goodwill I'm in this car $13,950 + taxes. @44,500 miles now.

If there's a fix, I'll take it, the extended warranty and $
Then when warranty is gone I'll use the $ to delete the DPF etc and roll on till it dies!

If I could afford it I'd buy a second one.
That's the way I am leaning too.
Get the fix.
Drive until the warranty is up and then use the compensation money (if there is any offered up here) to get the fix unfixed.
 

DaveTC

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Location
Minneapolis, MN
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE
My first impression was to sell the car back. I do not really trust the car. After looking around, I did not see any cars that really met my criteria for a new car. After thinking things trough, it had been about 30,000 mile since my turbo went out and the failure rates have been on the decline for the NMS Passats. However, my turbo likely went out on the way home from work tonight. I was near home, so I drove it the last mile home. The car was towed away about an hour ago. For the moment, my thought is that they can gladly take the car from my mildly warm live hands.

It is a matter of my perception of risk based on the specific model that I own. I did buy the vehicle to lower my impact on the environment, so I am disappointed with VW. However, as I go back to my 5.3 liter V8 truck while my car is being repaired, I am sure that my impact on the environment will increase substantially. It bothers me when people talk of a DPF delete, but I would not be beyond it if it was a matter of replacing a DPF and turbo every 30,000 miles or doing a DPF delete. If the solution eases up on the severity of the warm up cycle in the first few minutes of operating the car, which may be the reason for the turbo failures, I may still keep the car. If you sense of my being all over the board -- I am.
 

dropnosky

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Location
RI
TDI
2000 Jetta 6 speed, 2012 Passat DSG
:rolleyes:
For every TDI owner who is "crying over how VW hurt their feelings", if any exist, there are dozens of us who love the tdi we thought we bought and are unhappy that VW cheated to give us that car. We thought we bought fuel economy, performance, and compliance with existing law. We learned that you can't have all three after all. To keep the car we have to accept a "fix" that doesn't yet exist and may reduce economy and peformance in order to comply. Or, we can keep the car and risk being out of compliance and unable to register our cars. Or, we can sell the car back to VW.
The class action settlement isn't intended to compensate for "hurt feelings." It puts economic economic incentives in place to tempt tdi owners to either give up their non-compliant tdis or allow VW to put the tdis into compliance.
I'm glad you like your tdi. I do, too. But I'm not rushing out to kiss any VW execs over it.
Im less concerned with the feeling of being lied too and a payout of some sort coming my way, that i am with the unresolved takata airbag issue. The priority seems all wrong here.

VW is falling all over itself to appease owners who suffered a loss in value with goodwill packages, restitution payments, numerous options, all hand in hand with the court at an unprecedented speed for this kind of thing, all over an issue that has not harmed a single person.

Yet i have a letter received last year saying my airbag is potentially dangerous, and we will send another letter whenever. This is for an issue that has killed a number of people across quite a few brands now.
 

petebert

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Location
Michigan
TDI
2011 Sportwagen
It is a matter of my perception of risk based on the specific model that I own. I did buy the vehicle to lower my impact on the environment, so I am disappointed with VW. However, as I go back to my 5.3 liter V8 truck while my car is being repaired, I am sure that my impact on the environment will increase substantially.
Has there been anything that has come out about the actual environmental impact of these cars? I'm curious because while yes it has fudged smog numbers, does the fuel savings make up for it at all. Less oil being pulled from the earth, being shipped somewhere, refined, shipped again, etc... This would all be pretty hard to calculate I imagine but I'm curious about the overall environmental impact of this car vs it's gas equivalent.
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
I've decided on riding it out, I truly love this car!
It's my first VW and non 4x4 of any kind.
I bought it Aug '15 for $14,950 w 16,500 miles - the goodwill I'm in this car $13,950 + taxes. @44,500 miles now.

If there's a fix, I'll take it, the extended warranty and $
Then when warranty is gone I'll use the $ to delete the DPF etc and roll on till it dies!

If I could afford it I'd buy a second one.
AGREED. I don't have money to buy another one, but I would. I'll just have to make due with my JSW. I've put every mile and wrench on it since purchase (just over 40k miles now). I've got the VAG-COM cable and use it for fuel filter changes and personalizing comfort features. Like OP, they'll have pry it from my hands!

I just got a new set of 4 Continental tires for $90 using the $500 good will dealership card. That, combined with the restitution (pays it off and leaves me with a few thou), and extended warantee... my cost of ownership will be about $20,000. And that should easily carry me through the first 100k miles. Give this up? I don't think so!!
 
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pebjr

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Eastern North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta; 2015 Golf S
I've decided on riding it out, I truly love this car!
It's my first VW and non 4x4 of any kind.
I bought it Aug '15 for $14,950 w 16,500 miles - the goodwill I'm in this car $13,950 + taxes. @44,500 miles now.
If there's a fix, I'll take it, the extended warranty and $
Then when warranty is gone I'll use the $ to delete the DPF etc and roll on till it dies!
If I could afford it I'd buy a second one.
I have too agree.....
I purchased my 09 Jetta when it was new and I just rolled over 192000 miles without much problem. I also do my own maintenance.
This is also my first VW and I love it!
I would love to have another one just like the first.....
I'll take the fix and the compensation..... and keep on driving!
 

DaveTC

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Location
Minneapolis, MN
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE
Has there been anything that has come out about the actual environmental impact of these cars? I'm curious because while yes it has fudged smog numbers, does the fuel savings make up for it at all. Less oil being pulled from the earth, being shipped somewhere, refined, shipped again, etc... This would all be pretty hard to calculate I imagine but I'm curious about the overall environmental impact of this car vs it's gas equivalent.
I haven't seen anything, but my truck burns at least 2.5 times the fuel.

For electric vehicles, the efficiency of the power grid in ones area makes a big difference if driving an electrical vehicle is better or worse than a driving a "gas" vehicle.
 

grawk

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
TDI
'14 JSW TDI (used)
as long as most of the power in the country is from coal, any plug in vehicle pollutes worse than any TDI, unless you're generating the power you're using to charge it directly from your own wind or solar plant.
 

SirDeath

Active member
Joined
May 3, 2016
Location
Southeastern USA
TDI
2006.5 Jetta MK V Pumpe Düse // 2015 Golf Sportwagen common-rail
@grawk you forgot about hydro and nuclear. I'd actually buy an electric if there was a way to guarantee I was getting 100% nuclear electricity.
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
as long as most of the power in the country is from coal, any plug in vehicle pollutes worse than any TDI, unless you're generating the power you're using to charge it directly from your own wind or solar plant.
Most recent US EIA figures:
Coal = 33%
Natural Gas = 33%
Everything Else = 34%
 

chadbag

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Location
Utah
TDI
2x 2013 JSW (1 manual BOUGHT BACK 12/20/16, 1 DSG BOUGHT BACK 1/14/17), Audi A3 e-tron gas-plugin-hybrid, gas Volvo V60
as long as most of the power in the country is from coal, any plug in vehicle pollutes worse than any TDI, unless you're generating the power you're using to charge it directly from your own wind or solar plant.

You'd have to look at average pollution per kWh or something from each mode of electricity generation, and compare that to how far you can go for that 1 kWh, and then look at the TDI pollution for that same distance at the same style of driving and same course as used for the electric. It is not cut and dry. Coal itself has many forms of use for electricity generation or different types of plants with varying efficiency and pollution levels.
 
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