Found in the oil pan....

[Steve Addy]

Hey all
Pulled a BHW today, there's a short back story about it, I recall this car had 330k miles when I saw it in 2023. It had been acquired by a salvage yard and was for sale, I had looked at it but between the cleaning and the parts it needed they wanted too much for it, so it sat. At the time I looked the crankcase was FULL which led me to believe that the tandem pump seal had failed and it was sending diesel into the crankcase. I told the JY not to run the car unless they were going fix it. I always assumed they would never get it sold so I just sat around and waited for them to put it in the yard.

Fast forward to early 2024 and the car gets sold and within probably six weeks it shows up at another salvage yard. Instantly recognized in and just assumed they never fixed anything. I had pulled the valve cover before starting and all the lifters looked reasonable save for one, which was heavily worn in the center (concave) and the cam lobe for that was also badly worn. I dropped the pan after I had it pulled wondering whether any of the rods were bent and found junk in it along with a gear driven BSM. So the only rod I could see was #4 and it looked reasonable, but I haven't gone any further.

Anyway, this stuff was fished out of the pan and I will admit there was some silvery residue in the pan after I drained the oil into a clean jar. Anyone recognize these pieces? The metallic items are a tiny bit smaller than a dime and the squarish dark thing is plastic. I think some of it is bits of rtv as well.

Let me know what you all think...I suppose those metal bits could be from that lifter and they just washed down into the pan? I have a photo of the valve train but it's not a clean view of the damaged lifter.

Steve

 

[Steve Addy]

Here's the photo of the valve train and a closer view of the bad lifter. You can't see a lot but it's better than nothing.

Steve

 

[d24tdi]

Nothing there that I can recognize. I don't think the metal pieces could be from the holed lifter. Those usually wear through gradually and I don't see how a big chunk could come loose like that, plus both look too cleanly cut around the edges, especially the one you pictured on the right. Looks like something was eating into the piece on the right.

Are the pieces aluminum or steel? Hard to tell in the photos.

The plastic chunk almost looks like it could be from an electrical part. Some retainer bracket piece from the PD injector harness maybe?

If these are nearly the size of a dime I would have a hard time seeing them get washed down from inside the head. Can't remember the size of the drain/CCV passages but I don't think they're much bigger than a dime and more likely smaller. Those pieces would have to first manage to find the drain and then make their way down. I would think them much more likely to wind up resting in one of the wells inside the head and staying there, if the source was some piece of the valvetrain. But I can't come up with a place in the bottom end where parts like this would come from. Judging by the crickets response from others, seems like we're all lost here so far.

The oil pan itself was intact? No repaired holes?

 

[d24tdi]

Actually I take some of that back. Now I remember that the PD and ALH engines do have that big open passage at the middle of the left side of the head where some larger chunks could travel down, unlike the older motors with smaller openings. So a top end source for the detritus seems possible in theory though I am still at a loss as to what the pieces actually are.

Are there any other bits that you can find resting anywhere inside the head under the VC? If so that could be a clue.

 

[Steve Addy]

I didn't see any junk in the cylinder head that concerned me other than that one lifter. The reason I say that the steel bits might be from that lifter is because it looks like the center is the focus of some repeated impact.

Oddly enough no damage to the pan, they drained the oil via the drain plug vs punching a hole in randomly after I complained they were damaging parts that were hard to replace. They still punch holes in trans pans though, which is another sore subject because they often get into the valve bodies and hence the trans becomes worthless. Stupid JY crap IOW.

I think it's a case of not knowing much more until I pull the top assembly and extract the one bad lifter to look at it, which I might do before buying it. If the engine is no good I'm less inclined to buy and store it for some future unknown project...lol. I will pull the VC again and check the injector harness stuff, hadn't thought about that, but you could be right there.

I pulled this because the yard will be taking that row for crushing in the near term and I didn't want to let another 2.0L go. There's also a CJAA in that same row that I'm inclined to pull since it says 154k miles on the tag...how it died can't say but it's there.

Thanks for the comments!

Steve

 

[turbodieseldyke]

There's also a CJAA in that same row that I'm inclined to pull since it says 154k miles on the tag...how it died can't say but it's there.

CJAA will most likely be junked for its HPFP, DPF or mechatronic. Possibly its DMF, if the owner refuses to pay another big repair bill. The HPFP is easy to check for metal debris, next time you're there.

 

[MEgearhead]

The plastic piece is from an injector connector. Someone probably tried to open up a connector to remove the wires and clean the terminals as shown on a few YouTube videos, but the connector broke because they get very brittle in the hot oil. Can't quite figure out the metal parts yet.

 

[d24tdi]

I'd think about pulling the oil filter too. Be interesting to see what's in there, can check the pleats for any foreign matter. Hopefully nothing, but if it had a crankcase full of fuel who knows what took a beating.

 

[d24tdi]

OTOH, I think in most cases the geared BSM would indicate it got a factory VW short block or engine at some point along the way? So that would be a good thing if so. Certainly give you more confidence buying it to know that the motor had something less than the 330k on the odo.

I know there was a time before the BSM deletes became the standard route when folks were converting from chains to gears. My B5 sedan received that treatment and the $$ geared conversion kits were around.... But outside of the enthusiast circle here, I doubt it was something owners or garages even had anywhere on their radar as a possibility. I would imagine quite a few B5 cars got new motors bought from VW dealer back in earlier days though, since presumably most shops/dealers would not have wanted to dig in and attempt repairs after a BSM chain failure, preferring to sell an engine and not worry about seeing it back for warranty work.

Pretty sure I recall that after a certain point in time, a BHW short block or long block from the dealer came with a gear-driven BSM in place right out of the crate. Hope I am remembering that right.

 

[MEgearhead]

Have you pulled the oil pump? What does it look like?

 

[Steve Addy]

Have you pulled the oil pump? What does it look like?

I have not done that yet, but if I'm out there in the next couple days I might be able to do that.

OTOH, I think in most cases the geared BSM would indicate it got a factory VW short block or engine at some point along the way? So that would be a good thing if so. Certainly give you more confidence buying it to know that the motor had something less than the 330k on the odo.

I know there was a time before the BSM deletes became the standard route when folks were converting from chains to gears. My B5 sedan received that treatment and the $$ geared conversion kits were around.... But outside of the enthusiast circle here, I doubt it was something owners or garages even had anywhere on their radar as a possibility. I would imagine quite a few B5 cars got new motors bought from VW dealer back in earlier days though, since presumably most shops/dealers would not have wanted to dig in and attempt repairs after a BSM chain failure, preferring to sell an engine and not worry about seeing it back for warranty work.

Pretty sure I recall that after a certain point in time, a BHW short block or long block from the dealer came with a gear-driven BSM in place right out of the crate. Hope I am remembering that right.

I know the people who run the JY that sold it, I asked if they had any information about the car but they did not. I'm not sure about the circumstances of the acquisition, there wasn't anything with the car when I first looked at it.

I can't imagine that VW would release any service information on it, if they had it. My understanding is that warranty records are fairly good but owner paid records are marginal at best. Also I don't know anyone at the local dealer anymore that would be willing to tell me anything about it.

This yard had another BHW car several years back. I bought the exhaust manifold and turbo off of it because it looked good, always regretted not pulling the whole engine just to see what was going on inside. I can't recall if this was the car I found the chain in the trunk or not, but I do recall another BHW at some point where I assumed the chain driven oil pump failed.

I'll post back about what the filter looks like and if I can lift it I'll check the oil pump.

Steve