Folks.. this cant be this hard... or can it?

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
Still down on power, feels like its suffocating as you accelerate
starts fine
no smoke
no vacuum leaks
actuator moving properly
fuel delivery fine
Malone stage 4 speed density tune runs fine over two years
Have used renewable fuel for over 2 years never a problem
no air restrictions

did manage to get two fault codes yesterday, cleared them, came back once, but thats it

Code #1 fuel shutoff solenoid N109 malfunction

Code #2 Charge pressure control

This took a LOT of driving since this started to get these to pop up

Car WILL run better as it warms up...
What little power I do have will not be as smooth as it can be..you can feel small surges

You can drive at free way speeds fine but it takes forever to get there and dont dare try to pass

floor it and it will just look at you like youre the crazy one

And this all happened with literally a snap of the fingers. Instant.


what
the
hell
?
Sorry to be a pest. :(

Help please.

pete
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
Have you tried all the usual? Boost leaks, exhaust leaks, restricted cat, timing, turbo shaft not snapped, ect?
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Once upon a time in a land far away, sorry I couldn't help myself.
I had a fuel filter blockage that caused gutless RPM gain.
I do not remember if it was pre-BD, mid-BD, or post-BD.
You say fuel delivery fine, measured how?
Because it runs better when warm, that sounds like it could be a fuel filter.
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
a brand called Propel.. use it in all my cars.. never a problem. started to use Union 76 and thier renewable fuel.. all my other TDi's have no problems with it
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
Changed the fuel filter.. no change. hook a vacuum pump to the fuel filter output and it pulls fast so no blockage there
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
This reduced power is at all speeds and conditions.. it DOES get better when warmed up but way way way down on power and the reluctance to rev is still there throughout the rev range
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
"Charge pressure control" ... so.... is it OVER or UNDER boost? That right there will cut the possibilities in half.

N109 malfunction.... probably not related but... ???
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
I did run a VCDS scan but remember my skills are limited in this area... from what I gather it looks like underboost
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
OK, well your 2003 should provide a potential for TWO different charge pressure control DTCs, over or under boost. Which is it? The older cars just show "boost deviation" typically, but yours should have it narrowed down.

If not, then you'll have to drive the car and monitor the data... or look at the freezeframe recorded when the DTC set.
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
it said 17964 charge pressure control P1556 35-10 negative deviation- intermittant
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
OK, so LOW boost... got it.

So I would look for a boost leak somewhere. Start at the turbocharger and work down/forward/up/back to the intake manifold, look for any oily residue spit out anywhere. Especially down by the intercooler.... these hang low and can be smacked by all kinds of things.

Smoke machine can also help if you do not see anything.

If that all checks out, then check the VNT actuator's ability to move and hold vacuum, with a hand vacuum pump. Tap into the vacuum hose at the N75, so you can verify the integrity of that hose, too.
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
okeedokee. i did check the actuator AT the actuator itself and it moves fine within the correct pressure ranges. DIdnt check the actual line from the N75. Its new but Ill check it anyways. all connections look good. nothing hit.. I cant help but keep coming back to the suddeness of it all.. literally was running fine while running errands, came out from dinner and boom.. no power... ill keep trying.. thanks for all the help
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
Well...... i changed out fuel sending unit. and VOILA! back to ripping down the road with full power!

I had taken the old one out and clean the fuel pick up line, and actual drilled it though to make sure there wasnt any crud up there.. even though I did that and you could see clear through, it did not solve the problem. Put a brand new one in and voila!

what the hell....? Lol.
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
Thanks to all that responded!
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Here is an idea, maybe the IP is not advancing to keep up with RPM.
There is a way sort-of to check with vag-com.
Have you checked the IP fuel solenoid with the engine running?
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
update: It ran perfectly.. for about an hour. Then, same thing.. got out of a store started it up and now it runs like it has no turbo boost. Runs smooth.. but no boost :(

I also noticed that two times when I started it, it revved a bit high at first for a second or two like I hit the gas pedal accidently... It did that also the first time I had this issue..

ill try and check the IP but I never did that before...
 

burn_your_money

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Location
Missouri
TDI
99 Beetle, 96 B4V, 05 Passat wagon
Run a log with VCDS showing requested vs actual boost.
You can use VCDS to verify the go pedal is functioning correctly as well if you’re worried about that.
I’d follow Oilhammers advice and check for boost leaks. Try pulling on the hoses and see if anything changes.
Tap into the vacuum system and make sure the vacuum pump is making enough vacuum.
 

Gruni14

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Madison
TDI
2002 Jetta
I mean, there are some common basic things to look at that could cause problems:
1) Snow Screen (that hidden fine screen inside the air pipe to the engine). They can get plugged with insects and cottonwood thingies. Make sure your air filter is 'clear' too.
2) What's your MAF reading? My car ran like crap too one time (like yours) ...sensor read at the low end of the 'normal' voltage range, even after cleaning. After chasing 20 other dead ends, I replaced it on a whim and it's been great ever since. 100%
3) Is the vacuum hose to your turbo (back of the engine) good? I'm sure you checked it, but worth checking again.
4) You could fab up a fitting to install a analog pressure gauge inline with your air system and read the lbs.
5) What is the possibility your intake manifold is plugged? First time I cleaned mine (after buying it) the deposits inside the manifold was so great, the airway was restricted to about the diameter of a sharpie marker. I was surprised it even RAN! lol...

there's probably some other things, but check those above.
 

tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
I wonder if the fuel shut off solenoid is like the one that is on the AHU motors, I remember when I had the 98 and the o ring on the solenoid slipped, caused the high rev at start( on the rt. side of pump, think it's a 22mm or 24mm hex head). I did have thread on it years ago in A3/B4 section...
 

peterdaniel

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Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
I wonder if the fuel shut off solenoid is like the one that is on the AHU motors, I remember when I had the 98 and the o ring on the solenoid slipped, caused the high rev at start( on the rt. side of pump, think it's a 22mm or 24mm hex head). I did have thread on it years ago in A3/B4 section...
Well I think you may be onto something.. the problem seems to happen with short trips, turning off the engine and then when I start, it does that little rpm flare and the it goes into the poor power routine

its always smooth. never hiccups and not rough running
it drove fine on a 39 mile trip one way and then the same again on the way home 9 hours later
started fine and drove fine UNTIL i went and filled it up. when I started it, it did the little rpm flare and I KNOW my foot wasnt on the gas pedal. Then its back to being slow as a air cooled beetle. I can drive 80 on the freeway, it just takes me awhile to get there

betcha it runs fine when I get off work 9 hours from now.

narrowed it down I think but to what?
 

tgray

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Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
It sounds like something strange with your IP pump giving it and rpm flare up at times. Something is loosing control and not working right. Boost is controlled by feedback from sensors so if something is not right on the fuel side it can do weird things on the boost side. If there are no codes except the low boost and that end is fine, then it seems to me it is pointing to something mechanical in the IP or restriction in the fuel line. Is it going into limp mode after the flare up? A shut down and restart to find full power again will show you that.
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
Right now I’m looking at the fuel shut off solenoid as being weak and not getting a good enough power supply to fully open the valve or it’s sticky and only opening partially. I had gotten the n109 DTC intermittent previously. I just don’t know exactly where this valve is. If anyone has a picture of it showing the location that would be appreciated. Thanks!!
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2002 (swap from 2L gas); 2016 A3 e-tron
I just pulled the turbo off a car that had similar-sounding low-boost issue (although, not the intermittency). While the VNT actuator moved smoothly within recommended vacuum parameters upon first inspection, after looking at it a few more times, I thought that the range of motion of the arm looked....not enough.
Took the turbo right off (had another one sitting here) and once I was able to move the VNT lever itself (actuator arm detached), it was definitely "snagging" at the top end of its range of motion. Might be worthwhile seeing if you can disconnect the actuator arm to check for full range of motion on the VNT lever (?).
 
Last edited:

Metal Man

Vendor
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Location
Sunbury,PA 17801
TDI
1998 NB TDI, 2006 Jetta TDI, 2014 Tiguan gas, , 2019 E Golf X2
I had a similar issue with my 98 NB. After a short trip it did the slight rev on start up and the power was down. The code was http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/01237 . I replaced the shut off valve and it seems to have done the trick. I haven't used it much, but so far so good. I can't explain why this caused the lower power.
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
Im thinking that the spring inside has weakened and as such doesnt open or close all the way allowing a little fuel to leak into the cylinders which causes the flare but doesn’t open all the way allowing all the fuel that is needed as well. Sounds good right? Lol
 

tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
Right now I’m looking at the fuel shut off solenoid as being weak and not getting a good enough power supply to fully open the valve or it’s sticky and only opening partially. I had gotten the n109 DTC intermittent previously. I just don’t know exactly where this valve is. If anyone has a picture of it showing the location that would be appreciated. Thanks!!
As your looking at your injection pump, it is what that single black wire attaches to on right side of pump under the injector lines. It's either a 22mm or 24mm wrench you use to remove it...
 

jmodge

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Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
I had a similar issue with my truck Monday. No rev on startup, but loss of power after 2200 rpm. On a trip back from GR I stopped at a station to grab some Gatorade. It was a slug when I pulled out, I could get to speed but it took seemingly forever. I figured limp mode so I pulled in to a lot and checked my charge air tract. No apparent problem.
Fired it up and pulled out, still down on power. This time I checked my gauges, boost was about 15psi and egt's were about 600. I was surprised to see boost, but normal is a quick spike to 20 and runs max of 18 under load. EGT's are generally 800 to 1000 under boost, higher if under a heavy load.
Low EGT's made me think fueling, so I changed the fuel filter. Filled it with Diesel Purge, It didn't help. Vacuum also pulled fuel out of the tank and through the filter easily., so I hooked up VCDS. One code for the fuel shutoff solenoid. I decided to lower my IQ, increasing fueling. Running out of time, I let it sit. When I drove it today, it was back to it's old self. The only other thing I did to it was cycle the cold start solenoid in output tests.
Not sure if any of this helps, I'm not even sure what the issue was, but I'm pretty sure it's within the pump.

I do have one thought about the solenoid valve choking fuel supply. If I am correct, power opens it and the spring closes it. So weak solenoid or being fouled may cause a malfunction. It can be cycled in VCDS output tests along with the cold start injector while running the engine on diesel purge. Simple and inexpensive to try.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Simple stuff first. Have you got underneath and checked the integrity of all the big air tubes?
 
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