Folding Mirrors with VDS-Pro

cocadave

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Jun 1, 2010
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England
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Seat leon cupra tdi, now gone.. A8 4.2TDI
iirc Mk2 leons and mk5 golfs have remote folding mirrors from factory
 

cocadave

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Jun 1, 2010
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Seat leon cupra tdi, now gone.. A8 4.2TDI
No not really, but I have discovered that there was a kvw module which was available and used to enable remote closing windows/sunroof and folding mirrors, I think it was the "reflex" model but I can't find it anywhere now.
If this module did enable it it means that it can be done but we just need to find the correct bytes to alter, I wonder if it would be possibble to find a car with the kvw reflex module and log the ccm details. Better yet would be to take a copy of the ccm and install the kvw and see which bits changed, now to find a module
 

graeme86

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Jan 14, 2005
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Not yet - fuel is too cheap! - 3.2 VR6 R32
I believe this is a separate module wired into the car. So it would be sending its own pulses down the wires to do these functions:

"AutoWindow is connected inside the driver's door, works for Left Hand Drive (LHD) and Right Hand Drive (RHD) cars built for any country. Reflex model requires removal of both door panels to access folding mirror connectors and includes cabling and connectors to run between doors"
 

graeme86

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I'm thinking after reading this that it wouldn't be too hard to add some sort of simple switching relay to the control wires from the folding mirrror switch to the folding mirrors, that might be activated by the safe signal when the car is off, and by the mirror switch itself when the ignition is on.

Hmmm....

Looking at the current flow diagrams, the mirror switch connects to the door module only by a couple of wires. It seems to have different resistances built into the switch to supply a higher or lower signal to the door module depending on the switch position.
 
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cocadave

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Seat leon cupra tdi, now gone.. A8 4.2TDI
yeh i hadn't read the installation procedures, just found it and thought wow,makes me wonder wether it can be done via eeprom because the auto windows is just a patch that is flashed on to the ecu where as the folding mirrors part actually introduces extra wires etc to make them fold/unfold?

surely it would have been easier for autowindows to figure out the bits that require changing than to design the system that they did, also audi would have enabled this also instead of using their relay system?

i think we are destined for failure :(
 

graeme86

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Not yet - fuel is too cheap! - 3.2 VR6 R32
You give up too easy. :D

Just off the top of my head I envisage something like this (to be finalised, this is just a quick idea I had):

Just need to tap into the signal wire to the CCM that is getting this variable signal from the actual switch to make it think you have folded the mirrors in when you lock the car. I believe this wire runs from Pin 10 on mirror switch to Pin 22 on door module which comes from the mirror adjustment changeover switch E48

So the signal wire from mirror switch runs to 87a terminal of a common switching relay and out terminal 30 to the CCM (stock mode). Just need to introduce the specified voltage it needs to think the mirror switch is in "folded position" to the 87 terminal when the relay coil is activated by the SAFE signal maybe (?)(like that Audi relay has been used to just fold mirrors in when car is locked)

This supply voltage could come from door module, as it would switch off the relay after a brief period with the correct feed when it enters sleep mode. When the supply current is cut off the folding motors etc also lose their power feed as it comes from the module as well.

Just need to work out precisely which connections might work, so that relay doesn't stay powered up too long when car is off (just does its job and de-energises to avoid battery drain when car off).

I know something like this happens anyway because if I switch off the car I can still fold and unfold the mirrors until I open the door (like you can wind up the electric windows). After you open the door the switch loses the adjustment power.

Of course there probably IS a byte in the EEPROM that actually would do all this if we could find it.
 
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graeme86

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Not yet - fuel is too cheap! - 3.2 VR6 R32
Measured the Resistances in various folding mirror switch positions (Pin 8 Power >> Pin 10 output signal):

Left = 675Ω
Right =1467Ω
Fold = 463Ω

I only had a folding mirror switch with a "O" position (not the Heated Mirror Position) so the reading for that was of course 0Ω

These figures gel up with the switch diagram in the VW schematic perfectly. The diagram of the switch shows that there is a separate resistance for left and right positions and when it switches to the Fold position, the resistances are combined in parallel. If you plug the figures I obtained into the formula to calculate the effective parallel resistance:

R1*R2 = 675*1467 = 9990225 =463 exactly.;)
R1+R2 = 675+1467 = 2142

So, the Door module should be looking for this resistance to instigate the folding sequence.

Also there is definitely some potential for folding with remote as well as with manual switch to work.
I noticed this with the stock folding mirrors the other day:
Fold in the mirrors and then switch off the car and come back later.
Whilst car is still off, you move switch back to one of the other positions - mirror doesn't do anything (because car is off) and stays folded.
If you now start car, the mirror stays folded (even though its in another position).
To unfold mirror you have to switch back to folding position, then move back to one of the other positions.

So it seems the mirror can be in a folded position independent of the actual switch position. :)
 
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0xFF

Member
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Nov 27, 2008
Location
Poland
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AVF
Hello,
Following this great thread I installed foldable mirrors (second hand), recoded CCM and upgraded power window motor with necessary TLE 6208-3 chip.

Left mirror is folding/unfolding with no problem, but right is totally dead (no movement, no sound).
Yes, I'm stupid - forgot to check mirror before installation :(

Now I want to know where problem is.
Bad connection, bad wiring, blocked/broken mirrors motor, broken chip....?

Is there option to diagnose the foldable mirrors with VCDS through measuring blocks and adoption?

Regards
 

graeme86

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Not yet - fuel is too cheap! - 3.2 VR6 R32
You should be able to just power up the two pins for the folding motor at the plug with some appropriate jumpers to test it. That will eliminate that as the problem at least, then look further.
 

0xFF

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Nov 27, 2008
Location
Poland
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You should be able to just power up the two pins for the folding motor at the plug with some appropriate jumpers to test it. That will eliminate that as the problem at least, then look further.
Thanks for quick reply.

Yes, just to power up pin 1-2 is the best way, but I don't want start all over again with door montage if I'm not sure what is wrong.

First I will try remove fuse for while to reset CCM, then I will check if there are any DTC's in the CCM memory.
 

0xFF

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2008
Location
Poland
TDI
AVF
Hello,
Following this great thread I installed foldable mirrors (second hand), recoded CCM and upgraded power window motor with necessary TLE 6208-3 chip.
Left mirror is folding/unfolding with no problem, but right is totally dead (no movement, no sound).
Yes, I'm stupid - forgot to check mirror before installation :(
Now I want to know where problem is.
Bad connection, bad wiring, blocked/broken mirrors motor, broken chip....?
Is there option to diagnose the foldable mirrors with VCDS through measuring blocks and adoption?
Regards
RTFM! RTFM! ;-)
I recoded only driver's module. Just forgot to recode passenger's module.
Now everything works perfectly ;-)

Is it normal that I can fold/unfold mirrors if I start to drive the car ( even at speed over 60km/h)?
 

blizzard60

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Mar 18, 2009
Location
Vancouver, BC
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2004 Jetta Wagon
RTFM! RTFM! ;-)
I recoded only driver's module. Just forgot to recode passenger's module.
Now everything works perfectly ;-)
Is it normal that I can fold/unfold mirrors if I start to drive the car ( even at speed over 60km/h)?
On vehicles with can-bus, this is totally normal! Plus it increases aerodynamics at 200+!!!! ;) !!
 

graeme86

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Jan 14, 2005
Location
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Not yet - fuel is too cheap! - 3.2 VR6 R32
You can also park the car and switch off the ignition, and they will still fold in okay with the switch if you haven't opened the doors. :)
 

perikov

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Mar 7, 2011
Location
St. Petersburg, Russia
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01 Golf IV 1.4 AXP
Hello, guys! Recently I started doing the same:rolleyes:! Thank you for so the detailed information!
Right now I'm assembling wires and mirrors. One of my friends has soldered TLE 6208 from one motor plate to another one but I can't find an appropriate motor... Also I changed my mirrors for passat B5 ones and "superb" ones as I could not find mirrors either. :(
Here you could look at what I've done: http://golf4.ru/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=22494&view=findpost&p=362397
also here: http://www.panoramio.com/user/perikov

What I am afraid of most now is programming. As I don't have computer with COM port and the only adapter I have has only the USB slot. As far as I have understood VDS works only under DOS and with COM-KKL.
 
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perikov

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Mar 7, 2011
Location
St. Petersburg, Russia
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01 Golf IV 1.4 AXP
Guys, the help would be really appreciated. Please, if anyone knows how to program the CCM device without COM-KKL adapter any info would be helpful.

Yorosiku onegai itasimasu!
 

Steve99

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Jul 3, 2009
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Langley, BC
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04 Golf TDI, 04 R32
Guys, the help would be really appreciated. Please, if anyone knows how to program the CCM device without COM-KKL adapter any info would be helpful.

Yorosiku onegai itasimasu!

The only other way would be to remove the CCM, open it up and use a programmer such as a UPA-USB to write directly to the CCMs eeprom.
 

perikov

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Mar 7, 2011
Location
St. Petersburg, Russia
TDI
01 Golf IV 1.4 AXP
Steve99, Thanks a lot for your advise. I heard something about that, but wasn't sure it's possible. So i gotta decide which way is the best (is it easier to find an adapter com-kkl or to use upa-usb (or the like)). Thinking about that i realized that i don't have the needed eeprom.
May be you know which way i could get the eeprom for 3-doors GOLF IV with folding mirrors (with left steering wheel) and CCM 1C0 959 799. If someone is willing to share it i will gladly accept it^^.

Once again, thanks alot!
 
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perikov

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Mar 7, 2011
Location
St. Petersburg, Russia
TDI
01 Golf IV 1.4 AXP
Guys, sorry for being a slow learner :).
I thoroughly read few threads and finally understood what i should do.

As a result i assembled new computer in my garage and changed EEPROM of my CCM!

So i got all the things worked like in a fairy-tale. And enjoying what i have done I even made a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NWvBm7HF5w

Everybody, thanks a lot for all the information of this wonderful forum!
 

tonyM

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Location
Varna, Bulgaria
TDI
1999 Golf MK4, 1J1, Highline, AKL, DUU
I have front winows motors without mirror-folding capability:
Driver side: 1J1 959 801 C
Passenger side: 1J1 959 802 D

I want to add mirror-folding capability, but the motors PCBs are different:



There are missing chips, but what type- definitely not TLE6208G.

May be I need TPIC0108B? In that case, according to datasheet and mirrors/motors conn.diagrams, all the pins are correct.

There is a similar case (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2486760&postcount=62), but the pictures from 'kiskamo' don't exist anymore.

Help from someone with succesful mod with those types of motors needed!
 
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PassatV6

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Jan 5, 2010
Location
NEPA, United States
TDI
None, but someday....
Ok, I'm fed up. I have the passenger power folding working, but the driver's side will not operate. I'm out of all the info I can find and need help.

1J0 CCM and all hardware is functional. I need bits to change or an example of what they're supposed to be.
 

ahmedj9579

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Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Location
tunisia
TDI
vw MK4
Hi every body.
really an interesting topic.
by the way, did someone manage to locate the bit in order to fold/unfold mirrors with FOB key?
just to come back to the story of installing TLE6208-3 and wire the mirror with the window power module.
the only way to manage folding /unfolding is through the interior switch.
i follow all the conversation and looks like there is a change to modify a bit to include the feature using a key.
"CCM is 1C0"'
really appreciate

just for reference, i included the same message somewhere on the thread of additional CCM coding and configuration with VDS pro.
sorry again and thanks
 

VN86KEN

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Location
Romania
TDI
passat B5.5 1.9 AVF
Hello. I don't know if folding via fob will work.
To fold when you close the car You can use 365 relay but this will disble button from mirrors... Not good!
I solved with an module , with module you can use button from mirrors , disable / enable folding. I bought from an Romanian guy Ichim Cornel from Facebook page will ship internationally.
I made Video here:
 
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