Folding Mirrors with VDS-Pro

[madelgado]

MKIV- programming folding mirrors w/VDS-Pro

I have done my home-work about the folding mirrors... I have actually about 6 driver's motor dumps with successful results. There is actually one single configuration byte to alter... plus some other bytes that I only find in those power motors with folding mirrors... motors without folding mirros have all 255 on those positions, so I guess that it is also part of the folding mirror code of the microcontroller.

I think that I have found also the byte to enable the mirror heating feature... some models of Seat Leon do not have mirror heating, and I think that this is also blocked in the power window code (just need one more power motor to read to confirm this... which is coming this week ;-) ).

I hope to have found the configuration of the motors, so that next step is to find the combination to enable the auto-folding when opening/closing with remote and also, why not, to enable the auto-rollup of windows also when closing with remote, so that no one needs to buy ever any "black box" device to do these mods... specially if this device's mod turns into "the last mod" possible for your VAG.

 

[graeme86]

You, sir, are a genius!

Would there be different coding for the left and right side door control modules?

i.e. would the drivers door have different coding to the passenger door?

e.g. the drivers door module generates the SAFE signal for the alarm LED, but the passenger door module has no provision for this.....or maybe it does now

And if, for example, I was to reprogram my right hand drive drivers (right side) door module, would it simply be the same coding as a left hand drive (left side) drivers door ?

 

[madelgado]

Hi, the coding differs a bit from left and right... there are a series of numbers that I do not understand, which are different for every motor... must be something like date or software version... Then three times the configuration bytes (like the CCM), where most of the coding is the same. There are only 3 bytes different which I guess that correspond to the can-bus address or just side configuration, because it is the same on different motors from different models. And finally there is another row of bytes which is the ascii string shown in the extra field of vag-com. The rest is 255.

I have found also a different bit in one single address (repeated three times) which is the same in non-folding mirrors motors and also is the same (differnent value) in those motors with folding mirrors, so I guess that I found the 300 dollars bit.

I will not post things until I test it during the week-end so that people does not assume a "guess" with a "reality"; This is just my very probable guess right now

If you want me to see (and compare) what is inside your power mirrors, please scan with vds-pro these addresses:

Driver's door: Read from address 8192 up to 8692 in groups of ten, like vds-pro shows (read 8192 and write down... then 8202, write... then 8212, write... and so on.

Passenger's door: Read from 12288 up to 12798.

The CCM has a feature that swaps motors on the right to the left... Right Hand Drive CCMs have this bit set to one... I saw and tested this in my passat and my FIS display showed right front door open when the door that was open was the left... so maybe for RHD the only thing that changes is the shape of the motor to adapt to the door, but it is really a left power window (in terms of eeprom) but mirrored.

I don't know about the SAFE light yet, although I can guess it afterwards. Cheers!

 

[digifant_gli]

Can these mods be done with the Vag Com?

 

[graeme86]

No. Only the DOS VDS-Pro program.

 

[digifant_gli]

No. Only the DOS VDS-Pro program.

Where can I find more information on the VDS-Pro program?

 

[compu_85]

Look in the other VDS pro threads, or Google. (or drop into the chat room)

-Jason

 

[madelgado]

Folding Mirrors Update: Today I replaced the driver's mirror and changed the "suspicious" bit in the power window motor; and it did not work... Well, I have not done the proper testing since I still do not have the mirror switch with folding position... What I did is to cut a small piece of plastic that prevents the switch from going to the folding position. Now my switch has the folding position but I don't know if the correct signal is going to the power window motor, since I do not see a clear reading in vag-com, measurement block 3, channels 2 and 3... In the channel 3 (Mirror Folding Switch) I see nothing... it is empty and it does not say "not installed", just nothing... should I see something? Because channel 2 changes between Right, Left, Not Operated and "mirror moving" (or similar expression I do not remember). Can you help me with this? Thanks guys!

 

[madelgado]

New update: I was wrong from the beginning :-( The problem is that a friend of mine took the power window motors from a car with folding mirrors, but at some point the driver's door power window motor was replaced; The replacement motor was another motor *without* folding mirror capability (this was the reference that I used to compare with my motor), and that is why I could not find any difference when I compared with mine.

It also explains why after changing the bits in my module it did not work. Following the tracks in the printed circuit, I have seen that the tracks for the folding mirror motor go to a 14 pin IC which is missing, TLE 6208-3, together with an SMD capacitor of 10uF. I am actually looking the IC or a couple of broken power front-window motors to take it out and add it to my PCB, because those can be easily found in any power window motor with powered mirrors.

I will post updates...

 

[Baleyba]

Very interesting post Madelgado!

thanks for your experience share!

Bal.

 

[aRd]

Hi Madelgado!,

could you take pictures of the circuit board where the IC is missing from

Good work

Ray

 

[graeme86]

I have two folding mirror motors from a 1999 Japanese Golf (RHD) - motors are the earlier 1J0 xxx xxx part number (not 1C0 XXX XXX )

Can I get a dump from them to assist with codes?

They are not in a car at the moment - can I connect them up on a bench somehow to do the readout?

e.g. +, - , & K-line only required to power up????

 

[madelgado]

Hello, I have identified already the bits that I think that will make the mirror to fold... in fact those bits must do something, because when I move to the folding position or from folding to normal, the power window freezes for a while and then lets me to move the axis of the mirror... This must be a sort of time-out while trying to communicate with the missing IC.

All goes back to normal after restoring the bit to its original value...

Every power window motor that controls power mirrors has this TLE 6208-3 for the X-Y motors, and another extra for the Folding motor plus the folded sensor.

I have followed the power and output tracks and it seems that it is a second TLE 6208-3, together with its filtering power supply capacitor of 10uF (as the manufacturer recommends).

The picture is this (sorry, I lost the link to the thubnail):

 

[tongsli]

So the hardware issue remains

 

[aRd]

Madelgado,

I've checked a 1C0 959 802 B electric window motor ( foldiing mirror control), you're right that IC and capacitor is there.

Does anyone know, for the later CAN version if you still have to match the colour code part no to your existing electric window motors

example I want to replace

1C2 959 802C 017
with folding mirror
1C0 959 802B 020

would that work

 

[madelgado]

Madelgado,

I've checked a 1C0 959 802 B electric window motor ( foldiing mirror control), you're right that IC and capacitor is there.

Does anyone know, for the later CAN version if you still have to match the colour code part no to your existing electric window motors

example I want to replace

1C2 959 802C 017
with folding mirror
1C0 959 802B 020

would that work

Hello and thanks for the info... great news, because until I got confirmation from you it was just a "guess"... If you have access to this board with the missing chip... is it the same part-number? I am desperately looking for broken (folding or non-folding) power window motors in some VW/Seat/Skoda dealers to see if they have any unit to throw away, to let me get the chip... but no luck until now... This is becuse I assume that the second folding-mirror chip is identical to the one in the picture: TLE 6208-3. Can you please check the motor that you have to see if both chips are identical? Thanks a lot!

 

[tongsli]

Miguel,

I may have a non-folding window motor if you're interested, I can send it to you.

Let me know,

Some info on the chip:

Triple-Half-Bridge TLE 6208-3 G​

Data Sheet 1 2001-05-10​

1 Overview​

1.1 Features

​

• Three Half-Bridges
• Optimized for DC motor management applications
• Delivers up to 0.6 A continuous, 1.2 A peak current
•

​

RDS ON; typ. 0.8 Ω, @ 25 C per switch
• Output: short circuit protected and diagnosis
• Overtemperature-Protection with hysteresis
and diagnosis
• Standard SPI-Interface/Daisy chain capable
• Very low current consumption in stand-by (Inhibit)
mode (typ. 10 A for power and 2 A for logic
supply, @ 25 C)
• Over- and Undervoltage-Lockout
• CMOS/TTL compatible inputs with hysteresis
• No crossover current
• Internal clamp diodes
• Enhanced power P-DSO-Package
• Programming compatibility to the TLE 5208-6 G

​

Functional Description​

The TLE 6208-3 G is a fully protected​

Triple-Half-Bridge-Driver designed specifically for
automotive and industrial motion control applications. The part is based on the Siemens
power technology SPT® which allows bipolar and CMOS control circuitry in accordance
with DMOS power devices existing on the same monolithic circuitry.
In motion control up to 2 actuators (DC-Motors) can be connected to the 3 halfbridgeoutputs
(cascade configuration). Operation modes forward (cw), reverse (ccw), brake
and high impedance are controlled from a standard SPI-Interface. The possibility to
control the outputs via software from a central logic, allows limiting the power dissipation.
So the standard P-DSO-14-package meets the application requirements and saves
PCB-Board-space and cost. Furthermore the build-in features like Over- and
Undervoltage-Lockout, Over-Temperature-Protection and the very low quiescent current
in stand-by mode opens a wide range of automotive- and industrial-applications.

​

Lito

PS here is the datasheet and a place to search:

http://www.infineon.com/cgi-bin/ifx/portal/ep/infSearchQuick.do

 

[aRd]

Hello and thanks for the info... great news, because until I got confirmation from you it was just a "guess"... If you have access to this board with the missing chip... is it the same part-number? I am desperately looking for broken (folding or non-folding) power window motors in some VW/Seat/Skoda dealers to see if they have any unit to throw away, to let me get the chip... but no luck until now... This is becuse I assume that the second folding-mirror chip is identical to the one in the picture: TLE 6208-3. Can you please check the motor that you have to see if both chips are identical? Thanks a lot!

Hi both chips are the same 6208-3.

 

[madelgado]

Hi both chips are the same 6208-3.

Thanks a lot to confirm that... to tell you the truth I checked the tracks and power, serial and enable gates were in the same pins; and the output to the tracks that goes to the folding motor... so I was very confident that they would be the same... but it is even better to know it for sure ;-)

I will try the recycling on saturday to see if I can find a couple of motor PCBs. I am stopped until now. BTW I have bought a set of memory seats from Germany which came on Monday; I have already installed them (could not wait) although I just powered them directly to the fuses box to be able to drive (no installation). I will do it also during the week-end. I would be wonderful if I could have it all ready by next Monday ;-). The folding mirrors that I bought have also the memory functionality, so I will wire it all at once (the whole car upside-down, hehe)

 

[aRd]

Thanks a lot to confirm that... to tell you the truth I checked the tracks and power, serial and enable gates were in the same pins; and the output to the tracks that goes to the folding motor... so I was very confident that they would be the same... but it is even better to know it for sure ;-)

I will try the recycling on saturday to see if I can find a couple of motor PCBs. I am stopped until now. BTW I have bought a set of memory seats from Germany which came on Monday; I have already installed them (could not wait) although I just powered them directly to the fuses box to be able to drive (no installation). I will do it also during the week-end. I would be wonderful if I could have it all ready by next Monday ;-). The folding mirrors that I bought have also the memory functionality, so I will wire it all at once (the whole car upside-down, hehe)

What is different with normal folding mirrors and the ones with memory function.

 

[graeme86]

Couldn't you just buy a chip from an electronics supplier, maybe??

 

[madelgado]

Couldn't you just buy a chip from an electronics supplier, maybe??

The chip is out-dated... Suppliers who have it (one in the US and another one in China) do not reply to my emails asking for quotation for a low amount of chips... Frustrating.

BTW, I got it working... although I posted this message in another thread, just in the case that any of you follow this thread in particular, I will copy/paste the contents of the post... In fact, this is the right place ;-)

I got the folding mirrors up-and-running . As I was suspecting, the missing IC would make the HW part complete, and the SW part is pretty obvious from the comparisons among all the motor dumps that I had a chance to compare...

So it will work if you manage to get the chip or take it out from a normal front power window motor...

Once that the HW is complete (folding mirrors and the IC attached to the power window motors) this is the vds-pro part:

connect with vds-pro to module 46, and with login 19283 as usual ;-)

Then let's read this address: 08223. It will show ten values... just look at the first one. For my passat, it was 155, also for seat toledo, leon, ... But I found value 89 in a Seat Ibiza and Seat Córdoba... just to let you know. Anyway, when moving to binary, it does not really matter about the decimal value, but just one bit... and if the motor is not enabled for folding mirrors, this bit will be 0 for sure.

So 155 = 1001 1011

As usual, the bit in bold is the bit; the one that disables the folding mirror capability. So that to enable it, we have to replace this 0 by a 1. Our number now is 1001 1111 = 159.

Now we have to write this number (159 or the one resulting from setting the bit to 1) three times (due to replication), at addresses 08223, 08268 and 08313.

With this, the operations on driver's door is over. Now we have to repeat the process for passenger's door. We read then from address 12319 and we expect to get the same number that we got when reading 08223.... 155. Convert to binary and set the same bit. In my case, I got also 159 for passenger's door. So we write this at addresses 12319, 12364 and 12409. With this, we enable the passenger's door power window motor second TLE 6208-3(G).

The graphical evidence (with the help of a friend moving the switch in my passat):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMoURPH7kxw

Best Regards!

I am now in the process of finding the way to make the CCM to fold/unfold the mirrors when using the FOB to cose/open the car...

 

[Occams_Razor]

I am now in the process of finding the way to make the CCM to fold/unfold the mirrors when using the FOB to cose/open the car...

Now that is what I am waiting for! (not that I will be able to do it since my CCM is locked by the KVW100. )

 

[madelgado]

Now that is what I am waiting for! (not that I will be able to do it since my CCM is locked by the KVW100. )

If it was me who have my CCM locked by someone else, I would travel to see the manufacturer face to face to ask him simply WHY! I have read that KVW will deliver another device to those who have the bug, like Lito. That means that the CCM is accessible by KVW, so locked for you but not for them. Probably is a different login. Unless the fact of the lock is explicitly stated somewhere in the product page and/or in the box or quotation... at the time that you purchased the flasher, you have your right to get this new login. Or I would also try to send them the CCM and get a brand new stock unit with the default login and of course, untouched. That is my opinion about that. As far as I know I am the only stupid spending hours changing and testing bits of the CCM, but at some point somebody else could try to contribute to this de-coding project and who knows how many surprises we can expect.

In my last testing session I found out the bit to make the CCM to work with US locks, different from European locks, so that somebody could buy an European CCM and install it in his US car without having to replace the locks. Also the configuration for variants and golf/leon trunk lock, so that someone can replace a Golf CCM by a Passat CCM (easier to find among more options)... all those things you cannot do if the CCM is "infected with THE VIRUS".

Cheers!

 

[tongsli]

Miguel,

My wife's ccm is unmodified by KVW and it will stay that way. Can you post the information so that I can test my old USA ccm with my European locks? I want to see if the Siren is affected.

thanks,

Lito

 

[SilverGhost]

If it was me who have my CCM locked by someone else, I would travel to see the manufacturer face to face to ask him simply WHY! I have read that KVW will deliver another device to those who have the bug, like Lito. That means that the CCM is accessible by KVW, so locked for you but not for them. Probably is a different login. Unless the fact of the lock is explicitly stated somewhere in the product page and/or in the box or quotation... at the time that you purchased the flasher, you have your right to get this new login. Or I would also try to send them the CCM and get a brand new stock unit with the default login and of course, untouched. That is my opinion about that. As far as I know I am the only stupid spending hours changing and testing bits of the CCM, but at some point somebody else could try to contribute to this de-coding project and who knows how many surprises we can expect.

In my last testing session I found out the bit to make the CCM to work with US locks, different from European locks, so that somebody could buy an European CCM and install it in his US car without having to replace the locks. Also the configuration for variants and golf/leon trunk lock, so that someone can replace a Golf CCM by a Passat CCM (easier to find among more options)... all those things you cannot do if the CCM is "infected with THE VIRUS".

Cheers!

^*&^*$% &%^% SO THATS WHAT IS %$^*&% WRONG WITH MINE!!!!!!!!

Deep breath, deep breath......

I have been banging my head as to why I couldn't get into my CCM. At least now I know.

And I appologize for my out burst.

Jason

 

[madelgado]

Miguel,

My wife's ccm is unmodified by KVW and it will stay that way. Can you post the information so that I can test my old USA ccm with my European locks? I want to see if the Siren is affected.

thanks,

Lito

Your old CCM is 1J0 959 799? Well, I tested this with my 1C0 CCM, but it is inside the 6 bytes of configuration which are common to both types of CCM.

The address/values for a 1C0 CCM are:

04358, 04359 and 04360: 255 is Euro configuration; 64 is USA locks configuration

For a 1J0 CCM, the address/values should be:

04282, 04288 and 04294: 255 for Euro configuration; 64 for USA locks configuration.

I guess that this bit also controls the fact that the trunk does not open at the same time than the rest of the doors.

Please, understand that I do not have a 1J0 CCM nor USA locks... this is the best guess that I can do. If it does not work, I will be very sorry, but I claim for your understanding about this kind of things.

Best regards!

 

[alex_pescaru]

Can you please tell me which is the difference between USA locks configuration and Europe locks configuration?
On a friend's car, when he opens with the fob, the trunk remains closed. He has to press the trunk button on the remote to open the trunk too.
On my car, when I am pressing open on the fob, both doors AND the trunk open...

 

[SilverGhost]

^*&^*$% &%^% SO THATS WHAT IS %$^*&% WRONG WITH MINE!!!!!!!!

Deep breath, deep breath......

I have been banging my head as to why I couldn't get into my CCM. At least now I know.

And I appologize for my out burst.

Jason

I tried a couple modifications on an identicle '05 Golf TDI like mine - works perfect, first time, w/o fuss.

I have an e-mail from the KVW1000 people stating that they are sending a reverse programming module to World Impex. They said they can remove what they put in.

Now back on topic; so we need to add a chip to the window motors, change a few eeprom bits, install mirrors that have the motors, and that's what we need to have folding mirrors?

Basicly, the main advantage is we save the need to replace the window motors? Cool. I hope to see one of Madelgado's well written posts soon where he lays it all out for us. You sir are a genius.

Jason

 

[madelgado]

I tried a couple modifications on an identicle '05 Golf TDI like mine - works perfect, first time, w/o fuss.

I have an e-mail from the KVW1000 people stating that they are sending a reverse programming module to World Impex. They said they can remove what they put in.

Now back on topic; so we need to add a chip to the window motors, change a few eeprom bits, install mirrors that have the motors, and that's what we need to have folding mirrors?

Basicly, the main advantage is we save the need to replace the window motors? Cool. I hope to see one of Madelgado's well written posts soon where he lays it all out for us. You sir are a genius.

Jason

Good news about the anti-virus for the CCM!

And yes, just adding the missing IC will "convert" your window motor to folding mirror enabled. The rest is to activate the bit and of course, to replace the mirrors. You save the price of each new motor, since the chip can be found in recycling or if you have a friend working for a dealer

Maybe you guys can try to contact the US guys that have the chip in stock. They did not reply to my emails maybe because they may work only for USA. You can give it a try (or even to give them a call)... that chip must be cheap... definitely cheaper than the whole motor.

http://www.aeri.com/

Use the search engine (top-left) and enter 6208-3G (this is the one that I have put in, from newer motors; 100% compatible with 6208-3). You will see that they have thousands available... maybe you have more luck than me