Fogs On A Budget $143; wth Pictures

[mario21]

ESFlash:
I bought grilles and fog lights (TYC) for my Golf. Left grill has the same number as yours - 5k0 853 665 (right has no. 5k0 853 666). I didn't install them yet but it looks to me that grilles don't cover fog lights properly. If I try to compare fog light and grill, there is a gap between them. It seems that fog lights have little bit different size than hole in the grilles. I made some research on part number 5k0 853 665 and it is probably for Golf R line. So I'm not sure whether I can use the grilles for my "normal" Golf. How does look fog lights on your car? Please could you send detailed photo? Or somebody else who has the same grilles? Thank you.

 

[ImBroke]

There is a gap, which I thought was weird as well. They still look ok though.

 

[chris@revotechnik]

Also, you should take into consideration that not everyone has perfect vision. Those with glasses or Astigmatism are especially prone to glare which may not be present for others.

I have an Astigmatism with bad glare issues, currently don't wear glasses for it because one of my dogs ate them, seriously... Keep forgetting to go order my new ones that I had fitted 3+ months go.

Anyway I can basically see fine as far as near/far sited I just have glare issues. I have little to no issue at all with fog lights on cars. I have even been driving around checking the past few days since this thread got bumped and have not come across a single car with fog lights that bother me. I can barely get any kind of halo or weird fuzz around them like most light sources do and on many I can actually focus on them enough to determine if the reflector is smooth or segmented.

I have a much bigger problem daily with poorly aimed sealed beam headlights on older vehicles or people who think its ok to drive around with their high beams on since they are too lazy to replace a burned out low beam bulb.

 

[mario21]

ImBroke:
Thanks for reply. I was surprised because nobody mentioned that...

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Your post is very confusing. Almost as if you are taking this personally, which you really shouldn't be as that is not my intent. Fog lights very rarely need to be on. If you are on a rural road, do as you wish, no one really cares, but as soon as another car is near by, shut them off. If they are aimed properly, they can still cause glare.

No it is not personal to me. Second my post was clear with several sources and quotes on on topic, the use and limitations of fog lights. Sorry you did not understand. The topic is not rocket science.

 

[ESFlash]

@mario21 --- my lights fit quite snugly into the grills with no gaps.

I do know that it's not unusual when fitting and working with plastic parts that some trimming (filling, smoothing, cutting etc) might need to be done to get a good looking fit, especially on vehicles that are not brand new as plastic can warp, sag, crack, shrink/expand over time. Luckily, I didn't have to do any serious finessing with this install.

My ride is a JSW and the parts that arrived were the correct ones for that car; I don't know what parts are required for your Golf. The only pictures I took are at the beginning of the thread, hopefully they'll help.

 

[mario21]

Thank you ESFlash. I bought the grilles from the dealer of not branded products, he recommended me those grilles for Golf. So I don't know, I will have to try to install them and then I will see...

 

[ImBroke]

Mario21, would you like me to take pics from different angles? The gap looked worse when the bumper was on the ground than when mounted. ES, are you saying your lenses are flush with the back of the grilles?

 

[ESFlash]

@ImBroke -- I'm not sure I understand your question. But I will try to answer.

I just went outside and placed a six inch steel rule across the middle of the crown of each foglight. The rule is essentially flush (within 3/64") with the foglight crown and the left/right sides of the fog light housing.....the rule essentially hits all three points: left side of the plastic housing, crown of the foglight, right side of the plastic housing.....like I said I'm not sure what you are getting at, or what gap you refer to......as far as I'm concerned the entire car could fit better especially the bumpers, grills and asstd plastic parts; but the entire fitment on my VW is a whole lot bettern my sons 09 Honda civic or the 01 sube forrester I owned before the JSW....in terms doing the fogs for $150 I'm very happy with the results...no complaints. I hope folks have similar results who decide to go the route I choose.

My reason for starting this (now somewhat insane) thread was to give one person's experience with the ebay route and offer an alternative to overly high priced wiring and fogs.

 

[mario21]

ImBroke, it would be great if you could take same pics of your fog lights from different angles!

 

[ESFlash]

Perhaps this will help.

Note: reflections exist that make depth and curveature difficult to determine; the fit between the foglight and the grill molding is flush and tight......anyway, here goes.

Front view, psnngr side:

Close up looking down from the top on the psngr side:

Close up looking down from the top on the driver side:

Medium wide view of driver side

The ruler touches at three points: the left and right sides of the housing as well as hitting the top crown of the foglight glass.

 

[mario21]

ESFlash, thank you very much. It looks great. I hope my fogs will look similar on my car. As I mentioned, I still don't have installed them - I'm waiting for switch. Thanks!

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Have all the parts; now it is time to put them in. I spent what free time I had today giving my JSW a bath and a partial wax...

 

[gmcjetpilot]

I am about to install the fog lights..... I did not get any hardware to mount the lights .... What size and length to I need? It looks like I need what ECS has in their kit, some snap in inserts (square flange that sit in pocket molded into car) and Phillip screws....

 

[ESFlash]

I'm not aware of any special mounting hardware; From your description and fotos you seem to have everything you need -- I used some standard sheet metal screws and some sheet metal clip nuts that I had around to attach the lights into the moldings; you should be able to pick up what you need from any hardware or automotive or stereo installation place; sheet metal screws, clip nuts or small nuts and bolts, washers etc etc -- a variety of ways you can go. There's really not much to it: the lights fit into the moldings and the moldings snap fit and attach to the grill.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Yep that is it, some small sheet metal screws (one per side) that dig into a plastic tower. The other
side are tabs that sip into some slots. I was looking at the ECS instructions, that have three holes
you pop inserts into and use three screws, another VW perhaps.

Also my belly pan had a total of 12 fasteners, three of which are bolts on the aft edge (screws into the
DSG trans). It's a 2010 JSW DSG.

Grill removal I would not pull up and more push down on the bumper along the bottom edge of the center
grill while pulling the center grill straight out forward. I did not damage it but it was not clear to me how
those tabs worked.

Can't see how to route the trigger wire.
How do you get the under dash panel off.... removed three TORX
screws and it still seems attached. Don't want to break it.

The side fog light grills I got are good enough quality, but one of the tangs is FAT.
It's going to need to be filed down.

This shows the wiring "CENTRAL". With the RELAY mounted down low on left, it gives me the perfect runs to
both fog lights, there is a dedicate ground point on the frame, and enough wire to get to the positive terminal
block on the battery (with a in-line fuse still accessible. If the relay goes TU it will be a pain to get at. If I
did not mount the relay there I woiuld have had to extend the wires to the fog lights. It might be possible to
get to the relay if I remove the belly pan and reach in and take it out....

LOWER LEFT SIDE OF CAR BEHIND THE BUMPER

 

[ESFlash]

Sounds like you are pretty close -- great fotos.

It's been quite a few months since I did my install and I don't recall if I even removed the under dash panel.

I did fish the trigger wire from the euro switch position to the interior (carpet side) of the fire wall using a stiff piece of 6 or 8 gauge insulated copper wire; I wanted something that would bend but also be reasonably stiff.

I then used a small cooking skewer to fish the trigger thru the firewall, from the interior of the car where a bundle of wires went to the exterior; for that I wanted something that wouldn't bend and not be overly long.

If you find you need to file, whittle or "adjust" a tab or slightly enlarge a hole go for it, that shldn't be too big of a deal.

Fitting trim and dealing with cheap plastic can be a PITA, but you can also look at it as one of the more creative aspects of these jobs; getting a smooth tight fit. It's kinda like doing a remodel -- sometimes yuo have to figure out ways to make it work and do the best you can to avoid letting the frustration factor grab hold........"there's just no way that bathtub is gonna fit in that bathroom."

I encountered quite a lot of trouble fitting the belly pan and the bumper back together in order to get a tight fit -- all orgnl VW parts.....that took quite a lot of doing -- a good lift that raises the car a decent amount, or ramps, makes the job easier. I've got a 6 speed 2010 JSW so I am not familar with the DSG bolts you describe. BTW I don't think I removed the entire pan. I only removed the torx holding the front edge of it. Took out only enough screws so I'd have acess to removing the bumper.....like I said above, it was quite a few months ago that I did this.

I connected the main 12v supply to an empty leg on the main fuse box not to a battery terminal. For some reason the el cheapo ebay wiring harness seemed to be cut for my JSW -- pretty much no extra wire -it all fit and tie wrapped quite well once all the wires were dressed, routed and run.

You can always tie wrap the relay to a more stable fixture and run with the lights for a while and then figure out something more permanent once you sort it all out and are convinced your install is solid. Not much else I can add.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

I did fish the trigger wire from the euro switch position to the interior (carpet side) of the fire wall using a stiff piece of 6 or 8 gauge insulated copper wire; I wanted something that would bend but also be reasonably stiff.

I then used a small cooking skewer to fish the trigger thru the firewall, from the interior of the car where a bundle of wires went to the exterior; for that I wanted something that wouldn't bend and not be overly long.

Great I just need confidence. I have 20 awg stranded silver plated TFEL coated wire. SO THE BUNDLES that penetrate the fire wall are up high on the battery side?

If you find you need to file, whittle or "adjust" a tab or slightly enlarge a hole go for it, that shldn't be too big of a deal.

I did and it worked good, went in with a loud SNAP (pop into hole not breaking). I only broke one tab on one of the old side grills. I took my time, got started about 3:30PM Sat, called it quits for the night about 7PM for dinner and to relax. Hit it next day about 8:00AM and with some running around, lunch finished about 2:30, and that includes going to my storage units to get my files (which I did find), buying some hardware and lunch. So about 8-9 hours. I also cleaned parts, on the inside.... vacuumed the bugs out the radiator... even washed the screws. I hate putting dirty stuff back on. Also I let the parts sit near a heater over night so they were warm. I even used a heat gun some times before fitting parts together. From the pics you can see it went together OK. Just where it has the thin lip that goes around the center grill it sticks out ever so slight. I think the heat gun and gentle pressure and hold it may improve it. Only the most picky (TDI forum members would notice or care). I am cool with it.

Fitting trim and dealing with cheap plastic can be a PITA, but you can also look at it as one of the more creative aspects of these jobs; getting a smooth tight fit. It's kinda like doing a remodel -- sometimes yuo have to figure out ways to make it work and do the best you can to avoid letting the frustration factor grab hold........"there's just no way that bathtub is gonna fit in that bathroom."

I encountered quite a lot of trouble fitting the belly pan and the bumper back together in order to get a tight fit -- all original VW parts.....that took quite a lot of doing -- a good lift that raises the car a decent amount, or ramps, makes the job easier. I've got a 6 speed 2010 JSW so I am not familiar with the DSG bolts you describe. BTW I don't think I removed the entire pan. I only removed the torx holding the front edge of it. Took out only enough screws so I'd have access to removing the bumper.....like I said above, it was quite a few months ago that I did this.

Yea I can attest to that. I could have left the belly pan in may be but being out of the way helped get the bumper back on. I had to struggle a little to get the forward belly faring (not the pan to the aft) to snap into the bumper. I got all of them and found one was on the wrong side of the tab... popping a few back off I worked it on. I bought some reinforced plastic tools, to do interiors, came in handy, to pry with out marring the plastic or paint. I DID NOT tighten any screw all the way until I had everything on and fairly well fitting. Then I systematically tightened everything.

I connected the main 12v supply to an empty leg on the main fuse box not to a battery terminal. For some reason the el cheapo ebay wiring harness seemed to be cut for my JSW -- pretty much no extra wire -it all fit and tie wrapped quite well once all the wires were dressed, routed and run.

See pics below.... worked well. My harness fit perfect... but to make it work I had to mount the relay where I did. My harness has a 9006 receptical PLUG (like a 9006 bulb) for the trigger; both ground and pos. I like my harness, it has dual pos and ground running to the lights and the trigger. I will buy a 9006 plug so I don't have to cut the harness. Then I will wire the trigger and ground (for trigger). I will ground on the engine side of the firewall so I only run the single trigger wire.

I had to buy a 5mm nut to make the bus connection. The auto rip-off stores did not have 5mm nut, had to go to home depot after I get the front end back on. To route the right light harness I used clamps; NAPA charged me $5.50 for 10 plastic clamps! The hardware store was closed in town and Home Depot & Lowes are up the road about 10 min away. After I put it back together. I went to Home Depot, they had the metric hardware and 20 plastic clamps for $1.95. Before I had the front end back on, I was not about to drive there and back (20 miles freeway) with out the front end on. As it was I had to drive a few miles round trip to get the hardware I did buy. My "shop" is in storage units, I just moved. Trying to find my bins of hardware would be a pain. They movers have everything labeled and accessible in isles in the storage units. I got two 10X30's... they are cheap where I am at.

You can always tie wrap the relay to a more stable fixture and run with the lights for a while and then figure out something more permanent once you sort it all out and are convinced your install is solid. Not much else I can add.

The relay has a metal bracket and it is BOLTED down to the frame. It is pretty solid.. Since it is the BRIAN or central component in the harness "system", all wire launch from there, I wanted it hard mounted. I think with the belly pan off I can reach in with a TORX and get it off. The nut is captured and then pop the harness off. The in-line fuse is just floating between the buss bar on the battery and the relay.

SO HOW DO YOU CHANGE THE SIDE MARKERS? Seems you have to take the belly pan off the get at them by prying the side marker lens assembly off from the outside....

 

[ESFlash]

Looks very sharp --- good idea keeping the plastic warm. You really have your foto and foto description title trip together.

The wire bundle I ran the trigger next to is down low, brake/clutch pedal vicinity. The trigger wire on my installation emerges below the battery tray.

Side markers are a drag when/if someone has to deal with them.

It was pretty nice back in the stone age daze of cars when you could remove a plastic directional signal lens from the outside via two ordinary phillips screws. The trouble is, so many cars are designed by folks who've never worked on the pretty things they design.

As far as I'm concerned lighting and their associated bulbs should all have easy access.


Also, there's no reason why the two grill moldings holding the fogs are designed so the bumper and all the associated parts have to be removed. A couple of little screws in conjunction with tabs would have been far superior and could have made for left right pieces that can be removed out the front, no bumper or grill to remove at all.

 

[heidelberger75]

Did you find the way to run the trigger wire?

To share my experience, I taped the trigger wire to the straight portion of a coat hanger and used the end of the cut hanger to poke through one of the nipples on the rubber grommet going through the firewall.

To get to this grommet, remove the battery (there is a nut/bracket holding it down on the left side bottom), deep down on the firewall you will see a bundle of wires and the rubber grommet. Poke through on the left side at the 9 o'clock position.

Inside, there are two(IIRC) torx to remove and the whole panel comes off. The panel just above the pedals (i was about to say "gas" pedal, haha) Look up under there and you should magically see the end of your coat hanger. It's then simple to fish it up into the hole where your euro switch is.

I think it's a bit overkill to remove the bumper but to each his own....I did not remove it but I did use 3 of the ceramic connecters that another poster listed. I only did this to enable mounting the relay close to the battery. Otherwise due to the length of the harness the relay would have had to been down near the radiator which I don't think is a good place for a relay.

The HARDEST part of the whole thing was getting the three grills off. I replaced the center grill as well with a Highline look one. I did it in cold weather and practically ripped off every little tab that holds the grills on. If I ever have to take those off again I'm waiting till it's 90F or above!

 

[btcost]

apparently it was Fog light weekend!!

I did mine as well. using the Chinese fogs and grill covers, and a ECS tuning wiring harness.

I did not remove the bumper cover.

I did remove the battery AND the airbox. not the battery tray. (saw no need)

relay is mounted by drivers side headlight, sharing an existing torx screw.

a trick for the trigger wire. When you locate the wiring pass thru you will see 3 or 4 "nipples" in the rubber. reach your hand in there (battery MUST be removed) feel for one of the nipples and pull!

pulling off the nipple leaves a perfect hole to pass a coat hanger with wire thru.

really easy, once you know what and where to look for it. The pic from ECS tuning's how to is a good resource.

Brian

 

[ESFlash]

I never disconnected the battery -- I just slid it over towards the driver side and was able to grab the trigger wire from underneath once I had it pushed thru. I tried to route the fog light wires without removing the bumper cover; cldnt manage, no clearance for my hands, so I removed the bumper cover. I guess it's whatever you can make work on jobs like these.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Finally ran the trigger wire and all is well.... However I don't like just shoving wire into the #5 spot in the headlight plug.... I want to buy the proper slid in contact.... does any one know if VW parts can get it, or ECS tuning might sell it.

My set up works fine, I striped enough to make a loop, tinned it (solder), slide it in and secured it with a zip tie as some one else suggested. It works fine, but I would rather have the proper slide in contact for the shell.

 

[ESFlash]

Not really sure what a connector pin will buy you, but if you gotta have one here's one idea -- an old fashioned Elco crimp pin might work nicely --- $0.26 -- long nose pliers are all you need to crimp it.

Most places won't sell one - but if this place does you could be in business.

Scroll Down the page to Crimp Pin and Solder Eye Pin:

http://www.audiogear.com/Edac-Elco-Connectors.html

Edac # 516-290-590
Elco # 000-60-8017-03-13

 

[ESFlash]

Sorry my bad......list price is twenty six cents -- their price is 19 -- wow ....a steal at twice the price.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Sorry my bad......list price is twenty six cents -- their price is 19 -- wow ....a steal at twice the price.

You sound like you're not sure if it fits in the shell. I called the dealer and they have them, but part of a wire assembly.... with two connectors crimped on each end of the wire for $8.50.... cut wire in half, and splice into my wire. Some one else can use the other half of the wire with the second connector.

One thing I don't like about the fog set up is it is on a hot battery buss. So the fog lights can be left on with the key off and/or out. IS THERE A SWITCHED BUSS LOCATION TO GET POWER FROM EASILY?

 

[gmcjetpilot]

I finally finished... I bought a wire with two connectors for $9.50 with tax. It was two feet long, cut it in half. ... It takes some force to get it into the shell (#5 open position), so I used needle nose pliers to push it home. I soldered and heat shrunk it to the trigger wire I already ran. Under the hood I finished crimping, soldering, heat shrinking..... it is done. If you want to buy the part I bought from VW, the part number is in the picture below.

I have to say, the way the HL switch comes out and goes in is SLICK.

Here is the part from VW, two connectors and 2 feet of wire .... I could not find the connectors alone. Even if I did, I'd need a special crimper tool and some practice to get it right.

 

[ESFlash]

Pretty classy -- I cldn't justify spending the bread, so I just went with what I call the tie wrapped and soldered/tinned end connector insert method.

Glad you were able to find what you wanted...........now, if I can just find a deal on a biXenon plugNplay HID headlight upgrade that won't set me back $700+....dznt seem likely from the scouting around that I've done.....I've pretty much given up on that upgrade for now.

 

[dhillis]

ECS foglight harness wire lengths

Thought this might be usefull.
These are the lengths of the ECS fog light harness.
The trigger wire length is way to long for my 2010 Sportwagen, but the rest are about right

Relay terminal numbers:

30 power (fused) 27"
86 ground (eyelet) 24"
85 trigger 100"
87 left bulb connector 75"
left bulb ground (eyelet) 20"
87 right bulb connector 95"
right bulb ground (eyelet) 20"

For the grilles I finally broke all the tabs off except for the outer ones that slot into the bumper and used 2 self tapping screws on each side to secure the inner ends of the grilles. A bottle of Testor's flat black and a cheap brush and I was good to go. Much cheaper than OEM grills.

Dan

 

[ESFlash]

Great idea posting the lengths -- The dimensions ought to help anyone out thinking of building their own harness or those who are unsure if the harness they are considering purchasing will work -- I never measured the generic ebay cheapie I bought, but it was as if it was designed for my sprtwgn.