Foamy coolant

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
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May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
2003, 385k miles, EGR and cooler deleted. Last week on my way home I blew a radiator hose, well rubbed a hole in it. Third time doing that from not checking after reinstalling something to make sure it is not rubbing. Anyway, got it fixed at a buddies then drove home 65 miles. Parked it for the weekend. Today I drove it to work, about 65 miles without issue. Went to leave work and my coolant level sensor is on. Filled the coolant and drove home. Mind you it is sub zero right now so I was not concerned about trying to figure out why I was low, kind of figured I had an air bubble that finally released. Stopped to get diesel on my way home and decided to check the coolant. Nothing but foam in the tank. Pressure did not seem to be more than normal when I pop the cap. Checked my oil fill cap and there is no milk looking crap there. Let the engine cool a bit and checked the oil and no milk in the stick either.

I am thinking driving to work it was foamy too and the foam blew out the overflow causing it to be low. But I have no idea. What I am most concerned about right now is what is causing the foaming? I drive 500+ miles to work and back and need this car. I can drive a different car, but will be spending twice as much in fuel. Anyone have some ideas that I can start looking into? Hopefully easy to check items that I can do in this nasty ass weather.
 

03TDICommuter

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Dec 8, 2016
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So. Cal
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01' NB, 5spd
My 'foam in the coolant ball' was from the head gasket. After I replaced the HG, no more foam in the ball.

Not saying that is what happened to you, but it was my reason.
 

03TDICommuter

Veteran Member
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Dec 8, 2016
Location
So. Cal
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01' NB, 5spd
This is my worry. Guess I should just get me a pressure tester and see what it tells me.
It might not show up with a pressure tester. Compression is over 400psi and combustion pressures a lot more.

FWIW, my coolant never turned dark either like some folks say (from the soot).
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Yeah a pressure tester may or may not show a problem with the head gasket…..depends on how bad the leak is if it’s leaking.
You can refill the coolant and do some short drives around your town and see still,loosing coolant……are you sure that there are no other external leaks your not seeing?
You can also get a tester that measures to see if you have exhaust gases in the coolant , needs to be be the diesel variant tester…..that will be a more positive test…….
Do you have a scan guage hooked to your car? I do and that’s how I knew my head gasket was going , on a good boost up a long hill I can watch the coolant temp rise almost 30 degrees while the dash showed nothing , then I was blowing coolant out the bottle , plus I was showing soot in my coolant .I had to learn to control boost till I was able to replace the head ( had 394,xxx miles on it with a broken GP and valve seals leaking overnight ) and new head gasket also installed ARP bolts , now no more issues.
 

79TA7.6

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Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
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2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
I do not have scan gauge, but I do have torque pro and a dongle I can use. I will have to check that out. As for other leaks, I am sure there are no major leaks. I was doing just fine until my lower hose got a hole rubbed in it.

I am trying to justify redoing the head. 385K miles, the synchros are shot, I use about 4 quarts of oil per oil change. This car has treated me well, up until about a year ago. Then all hell started to break loose on me. Found a 2012 2 door golf with 108K miles for $11K. Good looking car, but I also don't want another car payment. I am thinking by the time I get timing belt stuff, head gasket, get the head inspected, maybe valve guide seals for the oil consumption? I am going to be into this stupid thing for nearly a grand.
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
I hear you on that……my blue smoke on startup in the morning turned out to be #4 cylinder valve guide seal would leak over night. When I pulled the head that piston was covered in oil . First fire up and it burned off causing the smoke. A serviceable head fixed that issue. If Franko6 is swamped you can try Hans in the Netherlands for a head , I went with a serviceable inspected option as Frank was busy and and I couldn’t get one in the time frame I needed ,I need to get that car back up. I had the head in seven days from when I Paypaled him on my door step….. for a little more than half the cost it would have been if I had the head done .

But for a grand that’s less than most car payments are , assuming 300-500 a month.
I expect to drop 500-600 a year on car repairs , most times it’s a lot less , not including consumables oil , tires , bulbs….you are gonna have to pay for them on the replacement vehicle also. That’s just my .02.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
If you really love the car then have the head refreshed or find one in better shape to put on the engine. If you don't love it, then move on, as you'll probably be unhappy when the next thing breaks.

We just went through this decision on my son's '02 Golf: 427 miles, valve guides were worn enough that the escaping oil carboned up the (original) turbo. New head and turbo, not cheap, but the car runs great now. He didn't want to part with it, so it was, for us, worth it.

Also keep in mind that that '12 golf is going to need a timing belt in 8K miles.
 

79TA7.6

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May 8, 2006
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Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
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2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
I want to thank you all for the info, and direction of sorts. I am leaning towards keeping the 2003 just because it is only my commuter. I only run it back and forth to work and errands if I have any coming home from work. The drive is 65 miles one way, pretty much all back country roads.

I will work on bringing the car back to better shape slowly, but obviously the head gasket, or what ever is causing the foaming needs to be dealt with first. I still have not had time to determine what is causing the foaming. It has been sub zero here for the last week and a half, and all of our shops are currently full with winter fixing of the farm equipment. Once it warms back up and my weekends become free enough to work on it I will.

What are some of the more reliable ways to test for a blown head gasket? I read to check temps via more accurate reading than the dash gauge, which I will use the torque app to do. I also read you can do coolant test that looks for exhaust gas in the coolant. Any recommendations on a particular one? Are they reliable/accurate? I also saw someone say to out a rubber glove over the bottle cap and see if it inflates it during heavy acceleration.

This brings up another question. Some people said it might not be a head gasket. If not a blown head gasket, what else would cause the coolant to foam?

Last question. What all should I replace while I am that far in? Do I send the head out to get rebuilt, or do I grab a kit from Peter and rebuild it? What will the benefits be other than getting a head that has been fully inspected for cracks and what not? I am burning quite a bit of oil, like 4-5 quarts every oil change. It also blows a lot of smoke when first started so assuming that is the valve stem seals. Would that possibly be enough oil to burn through what I am seeing?
 
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csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Glad your keeping it.
Ive picked up a gas tester from our local Nappa dealer for a Diesel engine , the coolant has to be up to temp to do test accurately.

I use a scan guageII to check my temps , find a good stretch of road or a nice hill and bring the revs up to between 3000-4000 and watch your temps…..mine climbed almost 30 degrees in a short time….. I was also monitoring boost , anything over 8 lbs off boost and it would climb.

Another source of foam could be your EGR cooler has a crack and allowing exhaust gasses into the coolant. You can block it off for troubleshooting…..you’ll probably get a code.

As far as valve guide seals I had one cylinder when the car sat overnight fill with oil and first start it was a mosquito killer for about 30 seconds, replaced head with a good serviceable one and problem fixed.

The excessive oil usage can be the turbo…….have you drained your lower intercooler pipe lately?
Have you checked for any shaft play on the hot and cold sides ? I was having an issue on a recent rebuild I did …..it too would blow smoke and use oil……lent it to my son so I could do a TB on his car along with some other work he needed.
On his way to work while going up a small hill car lost power and huge plume of smoke behind him…..pulls over and calls me….I had him tow it back to my house……somehow the turbo snapped in half with oil going into the exhaust…. Just saying…..chech your turbo for excessive play and oil in the lower IC pipe…..
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Oil consumption and smoke are good indicators of worn valve guides and seals. Oil leaks down into the combustion chambers when the car sits. Your oil consumption is pretty high, too.

We just addressed these issues on my son's '02 Golf (no foaming coolant in his car, however). New AMC head, less expensive than a rebuild, and a reman turbo as his was original at 427K miles. Car now uses zero oil and runs great.
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
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Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
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2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
EGR has been deleted for 250k miles. Turbo was replaced about 100k miles ago with a vnt17. I have not checked for play in it though. I do have horrible smoke on startup so the guide seals most definitely need to be replaced. I will see if I can find a coolant tester.

As for after market heads, I thought they were no good? Everyone says to have your factory head rebuilt if possible. Has the quality actually come up on these, or is AMC just in a different league?
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
Not sure about AMC heads…..but if Franko6 doesn’t have any ready to go you can try Hans over in the Netherlands , Dutch auto . I got a used serviceable head from him in about 6-7 days to my door step after PP went through for about $375.00 including shipping , that was a few years ago…..
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
People here like to disparage AMC heads, but we sell a fair number of them, I've had two on cars of mine, my local Guru uses them frequently, and I've yet to hear of a problem.
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
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Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
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2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
I bought many years ago to use on an engine that had a timing belt failure. It was the request of the owner. I think I bought it from CascadeGerman, Aaron. At that time there must not have been many in use cause I was told to only expect it to last less than 200k. Again, this was probably 10 years ago.

I am glad to hear they have turned out to be a good head. Again, this was 10 years ago so I am only remembering that this was the head brand.
 

79TA7.6

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May 8, 2006
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Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
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2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
How likely is it that the head was damaged? The temp never got high enough to move the gauge, and yes I know these are dummy gauges. The light was on for literally 5 minutes of driving in maybe 25 degree weather. I know cast iron heads are more prone to heat issues, but I have no idea about aluminum heads.

If I buy the rebuild kit that Peter has on his site and strip the head down and have it checked over by a head shop, would I be good?
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
As long as they check it for warpage and skim the head…..and make sure the valve seats and valves are correctly set to off set the skimming process…
Yes.
 
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