Flexible Service Interval Retrofit?

weedeater

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The oil light in the new cluster has two colors. Red indicates oil pressure. Green(yellow) is for 'oil status' and measures K38, this oil level sensor.
 

strretch

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Originally posted by weedeater:
You are correct, sir! There is a separate pressure sensor.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The oil pressure sensor exists in all A4s as far as I know. It's simply a switch that closes when the pressure gets above a certain level, at which point it throws a code or illuminates the idiot light. It's located below the oil filter canister and above the oil cooler.

What I'm hoping is that the level/temp sensor gives more information than simply an idiot light. I understand the point of the flexible service interval, and I guess the service interval is adjusted based on "wear and tear" of the oil from the level/temp data. I don't know, however, if the MFA is capable of displaying continuous data for level or, more importantly, temperature, the way it does for MPG or ambient temperature. This sensor looks like it could be capable of doing that, though. Does anyone have any idea or at least seen this thing in action? wyseguy?
 

strretch

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Jerry, you're right, of course, but if it's all conveniently at T14a, I don't see why we shouldn't use it. T14a looks pretty easy to get to.

Edit: Sorry, I see now that you said "I know that wire is not there." In that case, we're dead with T14a unless we run wires to it. Though it wouldn't be as clean, I think doing it the way Jerry suggests is best.

[ November 14, 2002, 13:46: Message edited by: strretch ]
 

Birdman

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Note on my 2001 t32/18 was not run. 2002 cars have a lot more wires pre run then ours. Someone doing a cluster change on a 2002 check the t32/18 spot.

[ November 14, 2002, 15:51: Message edited by: Birdman ]
 

tongsli

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'cmon guys. Who are you talking to? Who runs his wire along OEM chases?

Besides, I'm not sure it matters but take a close look at the diagram. For some reason the following happens.

Sensor wire Pin 1 (1.0mm) T14a/11 Pin 11 (.5mm) to switched power.

Sensor wire Pin 2 (1.0mm) T14a/7 Pin 7 (2.5mm) to ground.

Sensor wire Pin 3 (.5mm) T14a/12 Pin 12 (.35mm) to cluster.

So, I think the ground wire makes no difference, but can we shove a .5mm wire connector into the OEM cluster harness?. I thought they were all .35mm

And, I don't understand WHY the wire from the fuse box would go from .5mm to 1.0mm?? Does that make sense? Is there any reason to do this? Will it affect the sensor operation?

Ok some pics:


Sensor and oil pan recess


HOLES LINE UP!!









[ November 14, 2002, 19:28: Message edited by: tongsli ]
 

tongsli

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One more, for Jerry.


Should we move this to the Upgrade Section?? It's really NOT maintenance.

Anyone?

[ November 14, 2002, 19:29: Message edited by: tongsli ]
 

Birdman

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you are right it almost looks like the rubber gasket is made to fit the small ridge inside the mail hole. Send it up with Brian on Saturday and i will let a machine shop look at it.-- EDIT we can make a hole in a piece of wood and try a few things. OR maybe someone who has this over the pond can measure the hole size for us.

[ November 14, 2002, 19:33: Message edited by: Birdman ]
 

tongsli

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Brian has a sensor, remember??

L

PS.Did you look at the wiring diagram??? See the different sizes on either side of T14a????
 

weedeater

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I wouldn't worry about the wire sizes. Except to match them at both ends. Get the correct repair wire sizes for both ends and use 16-guage in between.

Do I gather from the pictures that the new oil pan has to be drilled for this?

I vote for moving to upgrades section.
 

strretch

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Originally posted by Birdman:
you are right it almost looks like the rubber gasket is made to fit the small ridge inside the mail hole. Send it up with Brian on Saturday and i will let a machine shop look at it.-- EDIT we can make a hole in a piece of wood and try a few things. OR maybe someone who has this over the pond can measure the hole size for us.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jerry, the hole size has to be 41 mm. I'd bet on it. That's roughly the inner diameter of the rubber gasket. I do have another (unbroken) sensor besides the one I gave Lito. I'll bring it with me on Saturday.

Lito, COOL PICTURES! I was under there for the skid plate install and I don't remember if there was a recess or not. Is it there on all oil pans, or did you find one specifically for the sensor? By the way, I think Jerry meant for me to bring the oil pan up, not the sensor. Do you have the repair wires and wire housing yet?

I too think this thread should be moved.

[ November 14, 2002, 20:14: Message edited by: strretch ]
 

Birdman

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The pans have the recess in them already all we have to do is cut the hole and tap the bolt holes.
 
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weedeater

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For level, I bet it's on/off. Temperature is another matter.

Perhaps someone with a cluster could set it for the flexible service interval function, then see if they get a DTC for oil temp sensor malfunction...
 

strretch

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Originally posted by weedeater:
For level, I bet it's on/off. Temperature is another matter.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not so sure. To me, it looks like the sensor may actually be able to read level continuously, not just on/off. Don't ask me how I know this.

Perhaps someone with a cluster could set it for the flexible service interval function, then see if they get a DTC for oil temp sensor malfunction...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, this is a good idea. My cluster isn't in yet. I was hoping someone could try something like this. If a code isn't thrown, shouldn't it at least light the "No level" idiot light?
 

tongsli

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This is for Brian and Jerry or anyone else doing this mod.

We need the following information:
1. A complete accounting of what wires & wire COLORS are in the male and corresponding female housing connector.

This should include what is there and what is missing, on both sides of the harness.

2. If there is a wire in the harness already in place, we need to measure voltage or test for continuity which ever the case may be. Ie. Brown wire or Red wire.

There should be a ground wire already in the harness for us to use and if we're really lucky, a fused power source as well.

Lito
 

MOGolf

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solid brown wires are always ground. There's no reason you can't just ground to somewhere on the engine (e.g. sensor mounting screw).

[ November 14, 2002, 12:39: Message edited by: MOGolf ]
 

Birdman

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Lito i will talk with you later but after looking at the wiring diagram all you need is a ground, a switched hot wire and a wire run to t32/18 in the cluster. I know that wire is not there. we don,t need to mess with T14a at all.
 

tongsli

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I vote for moving to upgrades section
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
I too think this thread should be moved
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey Wyseguy, we're moving to the upgrades section!!

L
 

wyseguy

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wyseguy100
Originally posted by strretch:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by tongsli:
Anyone know the EXACT location of T14a???
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From my Bentley CD:



T14a 14-Pin Connector
in engine compartment, left side, to left of battery

I just looked (with a mirror) and saw it. It's below the snorkel and below and to the left of the battery. I think pulling the battery is the best way to get to it, and it looks very obvious where it is.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well it is there on 99.5-02 US Models. The engine that I have in the car required me to move the T14a connectotr location to under the rain tray. I will get pics of my install tonight.

I would like to point out that the factory wiring of the engine harness has a heat sheilding on the 3 wires running to the oil level sensor. There are also clips that tie the harness to the back of the block. I'l get some info for you guys.
 

wyseguy

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wyseguy100
Originally posted by tongsli:
I ordered the electrical connectors and Brian ordered the gasket and bolts.

L
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well guys I have to burst your bubble. I just read through the procedure you guys are working with. Drilling the pan and tapping it it not a viable solution. Trust me I tried.

There is a milled relief in the pan that requires welding aluminum to the pan and milling it smooth. When I picked up my new AFN Euro 110 motor, it had a cracked pan. I took it off, and planned on taking my original pan to work to mill the hole in it with a bridgeport I have here at work. I got everything to work, sized things up and started cutting. I was able to get it to fit perfect, but the sensor sat about an 1/8" too high (towards the crank) This means that level would be indicating to low when it was not. I investigated shimming the sensor on the pan, but wasn't comfortable with a non stock mounting procedure. I ended up repairing the damaged pan I had instead of fiddling with the non drilled pan -> drilled pan conversion.

I hope this provides a little insight into this. I will say it is worth the time and $$$ to do this mod, one of the cooler things I have done to my car I think.
 

tongsli

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Thanks for the info. I believe I know what you are referring to. I have the OEM pan on the way and will be able to see it for myself.

What displays on your MFA cluster?

Did you follow the wiring diagrams and wire sizes?

Lito

[ November 15, 2002, 12:05: Message edited by: tongsli ]
 

wyseguy

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Originally posted by tongsli:
Thanks for the info. I believe I know what you are referring to. I have the OEM pan on the way and will be able to see it for myself.

What displays on your MFA cluster?

Did you follow the wiring diagrams and wire sizes?

Lito
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=584020

someone sellnig a pan and sender on vortex for 125$ jump on this someone!!! awesome deal, and much cheaper then the dealer.
 

strretch

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Originally posted by morty:
OK I'm interested...How much?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since no one has answered this, I'll give it a shot. Note all prices are approximate and in US dollars:

Sensor 1J0 907 660 B - $65.00
Sealing washer 038 103 196 - $3.00
Screws N 104 720 01 - $0.15 x 3 = $0.45
Oil pan with opening for oil level sensor 038 103 603 N - $90.00
Silicone sealant D 176 404 A2 - $15.00
Wire housing 1J0 973 703 - $2.70
Repair wires 000 979 131 - $1.75 x 2 = $3.50
Heat deflector hose 06A 971 461A - $31.00
One gallon of Delvac - $20.00

Grand total with shipping and all is probably about $250, roughly. If wyseguy is wrong and drilling is possible, then of course, this goes down significantly. But this remains to be seen.

I don't have any idea yet if it's worth the money, but wyseguy seems to like it, I think.
 

Birdman

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Part # on pan is diff. -----------------------------Part numbers are:
Pan: 038103603L-----EDIT
Oil level sender: 1J0907660C------------------------this is the one on vortex 1.8T

[ November 15, 2002, 14:04: Message edited by: Birdman ]
 

strretch

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From the Vortex:



This pan came off a 1.8T and has part number 038 103 603L or M, as you can see.

ETKA indicates that the part number for the TDI is 038 103 603N. I don't have one, though, so I can't confirm this 100%. I assume the oil pan on the TDI and on the 1.8T aren't the same though.

The sensor I have ends in B and not C, as you can see from Lito's pics. This is also consistent with ETKA, though from the Vortex pictures, the two look similar. I don't know what the difference is.
 

Michael Moore

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Interesting thread. Lots of really good research work done by the team here.

I'm in Switzerland now, would it help if I went to my local dealer and took pictures of one of these things that is installed on a VW here? I could get them to phone me the next time they have a new car (for PDI) up on the hoist.

If you do want photos, tell me exactly what you want photos of.

Michael
 

MOGolf

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Yes, 'N' is what is shown for the latest pan, and 1J0 907 660 B for the sensor on all 4 cylinder engines.
 
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