first p/d engine failure from not using 50501

Long_Range

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Location
Arthur, IL , USA
TDI
Jetta Sedan GL 2004
VW answer to the 1.8T slug issue was to require a better grade oil. Toyota's answer to their much more severe problem was to change the OCI from 7500 mi to 5000 miles.

I run Amsoil 0W-30 in my daughters Toyota Corolla. Their is no way she would want to keep up with five oil changes per year. Plus the oil is free if you figure in the gas savings.
I can't understand the resistance of the general public in the U.S. to using a quality motor oil.
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 25, 2001
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
Not sure how we got to sludge, but...
Consumer Reports - Engine Sludge

"While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing oil at prescribed intervals, some engines from Audi, Chrysler, Saab, Toyota, and Volkswagen appear prone to it..."

US/API oil quality is significantly lower than European requirements, though the gaps are narrowing. In addition, there's the 'synthetic' thing -- about 7% of Americans use synthetic (and that includes the 'legal' Group III stuff). Around 50% of Europeans use synthetic - and that's PAO/Ester-based oil only. Euro manufacturers demand higher quality oil with more specific testing, while the US API system is a lowest-common-denominator product for only the US Big Three - GM, Ford, Chrysler - and based on ONLY a 6 month/7500 mile 'perfect conditions' oil change interval.

Even in the one VW sludge problem that I know of - the 1.8T used in some Passats with the 3.5 quart sump (it isn't an issue for the same engine with larger oil capacities) - simply using synthetic oil will solve the problem and allow the full 10,000 mile oil change interval. Because of our substandard oil, VW had to BOTH require synthetic 502.00 oil AND drop the OCI to 5000 miles. This isn't an issue in Europe.

Andy
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta


US/API oil quality is significantly lower than European requirements, though the gaps are narrowing.

Ohhh, my! You're going to start WWIII with that statement!



As noted by Andy, cam scoring and black jello have nothing in common. The sludge issue is a different topic for a different day. In fact, the black sludge issue is best left to the 1.8T Passats
... it's not a concern for the rest of us.
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=888&scid=151

not oil related but the black eye part is what I've been saying "All in all, Volkswagen is making some bad decisions here. Just as it is getting ready to offer a new small diesel on its Passat and a gigantic diesel in its Touareg sport utility, the automaker is messing with owners of its current diesels, who didn't do anything wrong.

It would be a smart corporate move for Volkswagen to reconsider, cover every repair and figure that's a small price to pay to avoid, well, blackening the reputation of its diesels and corporation.

Otherwise, there are likely to be lots of Volkswagen owners considering other vehicles. on a case-by-case basis."
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
TDI
Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
I have a question: Which costs more to replace, the VE Rotary Injection Pump, or the PD cam and rockers?

On WorldImpex.com the injection pumps seem to range from about US$1055 to $2600.

Let's say your injection pump needs to be replaced after 300,000 miles, or your PD cam and rockers need to be replaced after the same distance. What's going to cost more? I bet the price is similar... If I had to guess I'd say the cam is around $800 and the rockers are maybe $100 to $200 each (maybe less even!)
 

ausinus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Bristol, PA USA
TDI
1998 Jetta GL TDI , white, 166,000 miles
The oil sludge problem was only found by doing a quick..very quick search on "recalls on Toyotas" after reading this by "Autodiesel"

Both of them bought different models of Lexus's and have put three times the mileage on their new rigs with ZERO problems.

Unfortunately the fact that '"ZERO" was capitalized inferred that Toyota/Lexus don't have problems. In my opinion a statement that supports the myth.

The oil sludge problem was just one of the problems that Toyota/Lexus has. So "ZERO problems" kind of 'goes out the window' I did not mean to start a strictly 'oil sludge' forum which as mentioned previous is not a problem for us with TDIs who use the specified and recommended oil.

And it pains me , like salt in an open wound, but to Toyotas defence the oil quality in the US seems to be bargain basement quality that ***** Lube and the like seems to push with the 3000 mile oil change unlike the manufacturers that prefer the 5000, 7500 or 10,000 mile oil change intervals.
I think that these inferior oils aren't up to these intervals.
 

HopefulFred

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
Golf, 2006, Indigo Blue
Is there a map for this thread or are the posts relating to the actual reported failure only on the first page? Could we leave this thread to it's stated topic please? I think the oil issues have been sufficiently beaten to death.

Has anyone heard back from Rob? Is this car in Hawaii?
 

cpermd

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Location
Hills of AR
I can't believe I waded through all that crap and there is still no word or pics about the alleged PD engine failure.I will continue to use the Castrol 505.01 as recommended by VW.But check the 04 Passat TDI on ebay where the guy brags in his ad about always using Mobil 1.
Would any of us buy that car.
TDIs are definitely NOT for the US masses and not a "Peoples Car".

Chuck
 

AutoDiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Location
Pacific Northwest
Don't worry, VW is just following the leader......
Volkswagen owners receive sludge warning

I've never said Toyota/Lexus don't have any problems.
But percentage-wise, they are way ahead of VW in quality.

3400 out of 3.3 million for Toyota.
A very small percentage of overall sales.

Can't be said for VW as usually their failure rates
are in the high-teens/percentage rate.

Every car manufacture has their own problems, some
simular to other manufacturers like the oil sludge
problems.

But if you think is not a major problem for VW, or
even many other European manufactures,
you've got your head in the sand.

DaimlerChrysler's Zetsche Says He Will Stay in Charge of Mercedes, Reform Will Take Time
FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) -- DaimlerChrysler's next chief executive said Monday that he would try to emulate his success in turning around the Chrysler division by improving the company's Mercedes unit, which has suffered from declining sales, customer dissatisfaction and quality problems.

Analysts and reporters gathered at the International Auto Show also heard from Wolfgang Bernhard, the former chief operating officer of Chrysler Group who is now CEO of Volkswagen AG's VW brand. Bernhard called Volkswagen's U.S. unit a "company in crisis." He said Volkswagen planned to turn around its U.S. business, which has posted losses amid fierce competition, within three years with the help of some new cars.
"A company in crisis."

Now why in the heck would they even be
saying that?

Haven't heard that about Toyota/Lexus lately.
 

ausinus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Bristol, PA USA
TDI
1998 Jetta GL TDI , white, 166,000 miles
2.1 million vehicles recalled does not constitute "ZERO problems???"

Actually this is exactly what was on your original post:
"Both of them bought different models of Lexus's and have put three times the mileage on their new rigs with ZERO problems"

ZERO meaning no problems whatsover? No problems? Not one problem?
ZERO...my definition must be different.

This is not an oil sludge topic but a TDI PD failure so until we get some facts if that happened, the oil sludge and the defending of Toyota should cease or at least somebody should start another forum on a different page or even try ILOVEMYTOYOTA.COM


Toyota/Lexus, Honda etc. service departments don't stay in business doing oil changes and spark plugs. The day the door has a sign showing "closed due to lack of business" I may start believing.
My opinion stands: STOP SUPPORTING THE MYTH!
 

AutoDiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Location
Pacific Northwest
The oil sludge problem was only found by doing a quick..very quick search on "recalls on Toyotas" after reading this by "Autodiesel"

Both of them bought different models of Lexus's and have put three times the mileage on their new rigs with ZERO problems.

Unfortunately the fact that '"ZERO" was capitalized inferred that Toyota/Lexus don't have problems. In my opinion a statement that supports the myth.
Give it up, will ya?
You're livin' in the past.


2.1 million vehicles recalled does not constitute "ZERO problems???"
From your link.....
Toyota has begun to notify 3.3 million owners of 1997-2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles with 3.0-liter IMZ V-6 engines and all 1997-2001 Toyota vehicles with 5SFE 2.2-liter 4-cylinder engines that it will cover the cost of sludge-related repairs for eight years from date of initial sale

What recall?
And it was 3.3 million vehicles.
No recall. "Notifying" is a little different from a recall.
Recalls are for safety related defects.
Not mechanical defects.

The Toyota oil sludge problems, all 3200 hundred of them, were for 1997 to 2002 3.0L V6's and 2.2L 4's.
The two Lexus's, if you must know, are a used 2002 Tundra with a 4.7L V8 and a 2004 LS430 with the 4.3L V8.
And yes, both of them have had ZERO problems since they have owned them.
Should I also list the two Camry's and two Sienna vans that do fall into the years in question that my neighbors across the street have that have not had sludge problems?
Or a friends 01 Prius with ZERO problems.
Or a neighbors Tacoma p/u with ZERO problems.
Or a friends '99 Avalon with ZERO problems.
And the list goes on.

But the only two people in our neighborhood to purchase VW products with PD engines BOTH had their cars repurchased by Volkswagen.
Don't know ANYONE that has had their Toyota/Lexus product repurchased.

If that is too much EMPHASIS for ya, too bad.


Your experiences with VW might be different, but in my neighborhood they are crap.
The guy with the Tundra kids me about my '00 Golf TDi and always asks what's broken lately. So far every time he asks something has! Had to show him two large tension springs that came out from under the front seats the other day. Seems VW, in their infinite wisdom, chose to use a plastic piece under the seat that they hook onto. Both seats have broken within a week of each other.
I'll put that on the list of other cheap plastic like the glove box and rear seat latch's that have broken twice.
 

vwrobert51

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
Maui Hawaii
TDI
2004 Jetta Wagon
WOW!!! ALL I did was pass along some info passed down to me from my trusted source about a failed p/d that was using wrong oil, and it started a shark feeding frenzie ! on the P/D, (car is in mainland ) yeh I to want to see photos to, the main point I wanted to make is IT HAS HAPPENED!. thats why all the warnning lables posted on car and owners manuel, ALSO FYI I own a 2004 jetta wagon P/D that now has 25,935 miles on it and has been maintaned by the book! and have not had one problem with it! 0 nada nothing! and I drive it hard, and am getting around 48mpg so the bottom line is if you take care of your TDI, and use the recomended fluids its going to take care of you! short cut and you get what got. this holds true for any mfg. (cars are like snowflakes they look alike but not all are the same.)
 

DrStink

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Location
Providence RI
TDI
2003 Jetta GL - Platinum Grey
Should I also list the two Camry's and two Sienna vans that do fall into the years in question that my neighbors across the street have that have not had sludge problems?
Or a friends 01 Prius with ZERO problems.
Or a neighbors Tacoma p/u with ZERO problems.
Or a friends '99 Avalon with ZERO problems.
And the list goes on.

But the only two people in our neighborhood to purchase VW products with PD engines BOTH had their cars repurchased by Volkswagen.
Don't know ANYONE that has had their Toyota/Lexus product repurchased.
The plural of anecdote is not data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
I have a question: Which costs more to replace, the VE Rotary Injection Pump, or the PD cam and rockers?

...
If the cam (metal) wears down it is allowing for small microns of metal to be pumped throughout the whole engine. Plus the the cam wear goes un noticed then you'd end up with engine that is slowly decreasing in cam lift. in the end you would find out about the cam shaft not having any lobes when it would be a mere smooth cam rod and the valve stop opening.
 

DutchTDI

New member
Joined
May 10, 1999
Location
Amsterdam,, Holland
TDI
Golf A4 TDI150 2002 Red
Have been driving a PD150 for nearly 4 years now, still goes like a charm.
The car has flexible service intervals which in real life means about every 25000km*.

O, and it runs on 505.01

So much for 506.01 every 7k miles



*15534.2798059334 miles
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
The oil sludge problem was only found by doing a quick..very quick search on "recalls on Toyotas" after reading this by "Autodiesel"

Both of them bought different models of Lexus's and have put three times the mileage on their new rigs with ZERO problems.

Unfortunately the fact that '"ZERO" was capitalized inferred that Toyota/Lexus don't have problems. In my opinion a statement that supports the myth.
show me ONE JD Power study that puts VW even above industry average.

As far as your quick search. Do another quick search and you see this http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=566 "toyota/lexus ..that it will cover the cost of sludge-related repairs for eight years from date of initial sale."

Now do you think VW is as fair? I can't even get the dealership to fix a dash rattle. but here is the link http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=1085&scid=151

"Hunt said dealers have been told they can be more lenient about helping consumers who were not grossly negligent when it comes to oil changes.

"I think we were a little Teutonic in our rules," he said. "If people feel bad about what happened, let's have a look at it." but then he goes on to add the little disclamier "But to be covered, Volkswagen said consumers would have to prove the oil had been changed every six months or 5,000 miles. "


NOW if you read both articles. You'll notice how the other manufactor has owned up to the problem. Why VW uses terms like "some owners have complained".

but this one is my favorite. and can be backed up by numerous topic on this website. EGR clogging http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=888&scid=151
"The odd thing is that Volkswagen's Fouladpour acknowledged consumers are not causing their misfortune, but Volkswagen won't guarantee a free fix for vehicles any longer under the warranty."

 

AutoDiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Location
Pacific Northwest
The plural of anecdote is not data.
Oh, so you want proof?

Quality-control guru tackles VW problems
Power Information Network tracking shows VW owners ditching the brand at an alarming rate. About 50,000 VW buyers in the first three months of this year were returning VW customers, down 25% from the same period in 2002.
VW's reliability takes a knock
Volkswagen crashed into the poor category of the reliability survey while two other VW-owned companies, Seat and Audi, slipped from good to average.
Predicted reliability
These new models received the highest and lowest ratings in Consumer Reports' most recent reliability survey. Models are listed in alphabetical order by manufacturer, within each vehicle category.
Small Cars
Most reliable: Honda Civic
Least reliable: Volkswagen Golf
Most reliable: Toyota Corolla
Least reliable: Volkswagen Jetta (4-cyl.)
Most reliable: Toyota Echo
Least reliable: Volkswagen New Beetle
Revving Up Volkswagen
Europe's biggest carmaker has slow sales and unhappy customers.
In the latest survey of three-year dependability by J.D. Power and Associates, an automotive consulting firm, American consumers ranked VW-brand cars fifth from last (of 37 nameplates), ahead of only Suzuki, Daewoo, Land Rover and Kia
Should I keep going?
Or does that sand feel too nice and
warm around your head?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
"The plural of anecdote is not data"

That's a great thought, DrStink. I would guess that the plural of rumor is also not data.

My .02: I've owned five Toyotas since 1983, all bought new. All were dead reliable. The Germans are out of their league when it comes to comparing reliability to Toyota (and perhaps Honda, although I don't have much personal experience).

If you want an appliance that never breaks, buy Japanese. If you want some fun driving, buy something else.
 

fixer

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Location
Central NJ
TDI
2005.5/Jetta/5M/Reflex Silver
Talk about hijacking a thread, what an utter waste of time this one has become, which is unfortunate because I'm actually interested in the subject.

By the way, my Toyota experience is limited to 2 vehicles both purchased new: a 1981 Celica which in a few years developed electrical problems Toyota was never able to fix and a 91 Toyota Previa which went through three starters in 140,000 miles not to mention the HVAC, exhaust system, rear diff issues.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Talk about hijacking a thread, what an utter waste of time this one has become, which is unfortunate because I'm actually interested in the subject.
I concur. Time to just skip this thread since it has gone so far downhill.
 

bjmarler

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Location
Tullahoma, TN
TDI
Jetta GLS, 2004, White
Why don't we just impose a 3 month ban on persons that hijack threads? Oops, I just did it. See ya in 3 months... darn it...

 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Doggie and I often hijack threads, by accident, with good intentions (this is not one of those times though). That's good for paving a road to somewhere....
 

AutoDiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Location
Pacific Northwest
Talk about hijacking a thread, what an utter waste of time this one has become, which is unfortunate because I'm actually interested in the subject.
More like you just don't a difference of opinion.

I'm very interested in the day when VW dumps PD engines
and comes out with great common-rail engines.

Might even consider buying another VW some day if they
make a product I would want.

Right now they don't have any product worthy of my money.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Once Autodiesel is on a thread, it is violently tainted. That is why I and so many others have chosen to ignore him, a setting you can choose easily. It is much less stressful for us to not be bothered by his "diahrea of the mouth"


FWIW I am employed by Lexus, and they have more problems now than Toyota has likely had since the early '70s, no joke. The newest models are built like cheap plastic tinkertoys and I now am starting to dread cold weather because of the chronic squeaks and rattles complaints we get. The old body GS ('98 through '05) was a vastly superior car, the current RX can't hold a flame to the old RX, and now the new IS is coming out and makes me want to look for a job elsewhere


And to the original topic of the thread: why is using the correct oil, even if it is an obscure spec in North America, such a difficult thing to do? If you cannot maintain your car the way the manufacturer specified, then don't buy the car!!!
 
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