First Drive: 2008 Volkswagen Jetta TDI - Previews

[SilverGhost]

More fuel on the fire!

I found a picture of a TDI B6 Passat. Who wants one in a wagon?

Jason

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Me, me!!!!

 

[kmil]

To Diesel or not to Diesel, that is the question?

I couldn't help but borrow from the great Bard (Thank you England). I live in the USA and as of now only drive around 5000 miles per year. Most of my driving (+95%) is in town and not highway miles.

How much sense, if any, would it make to get the 08 Jetta Diesel instead of the regular gas model? From what I've read it would appear that highway miles are best for a Diesel. Put another way, would mostly city driving be "bad" for a Diesel and if so why.....OR....would it make any difference at all?

Assuming the Diesel option is going to cost and extra $1,500 dollars in the US would it "pay" to get a Diesel considering my current 5000 miles/city driving a year? Nevertheless, I'm fairly certain that Diesel may well be a good investment from the resale point of view. I've read a number of posts where a Diesel owner (Jettas) saw their resale value increase. I guess what I'm trying to do is "convince" myself to go the Diesel route. What say you???

 

[dsimpson313]

I couldn't help but borrow from the great Bard (Thank you England). I live in the USA and as of now only drive around 5000 miles per year. Most of my driving (+95%) is in town and not highway miles.

How much sense, if any, would it make to get the 08 Jetta Diesel instead of the regular gas model? From what I've read it would appear that highway miles are best for a Diesel. Put another way, would mostly city driving be "bad" for a Diesel and if so why.....OR....would it make any difference at all?

Assuming the Diesel option is going to cost and extra $1,500 dollars in the US would it "pay" to get a Diesel considering my current 5000 miles/city driving a year? Nevertheless, I'm fairly certain that Diesel may well be a good investment from the resale point of view. I've read a number of posts where a Diesel owner (Jettas) saw their resale value increase. I guess what I'm trying to do is "convince" myself to go the Diesel route. What say you???

Driving 5,000 miles per year you can't justify the payback in the short term with fuel savings. That said, get what you want to get. If you plan on keeping your TDI for a long time like most owners do, it will pay for itself in the long run and provide many years of service if properly maintained. Are you certain you can justify buying a new TDI (or new anything) with that little driving though? At 5,000 miles per year, most anything will do.....just an observation.

Don't fool yourself on resale value. The current issue with some (not all) diesel owners having the value of the their car go up is due to supply and demand, i.e., there has not been any supply since late 2006 and lots of current demand. Once the new TDI's get here (and diesel Hondas, Subies, Nissans, etc.....) that will change. Hence, now is the perfect time to sell if you own a TDI. However, you would probably have an easier time selling a used TDI vs. a used gasser Jetta if it came to that.

I'll let one of the motor heads answer your questions about city driving being "bad". But know that highway miles are where a diesel is most efficient.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[fancy_dancer]

A diesel's advantage in city driving

The biggest advantage of a diesel is at idle: it uses only enough fuel to keep the engine ticking over. A gasoline engine must run stoichiometric and uses MUCH more fuel per hour at idle. That's why semi's can get away with idling overnight.

The faster you drive (or, the more power that you demand from your engine) the less the advantage of diesel. If you had two 90 BHP Golfs (or similar) running flat-out, one gas and the other diesel, the diesel would still be more efficient but not by nearly as much as in city driving.

 

[oilhammer]

The biggest advantage of a diesel is at idle: it uses only enough fuel to keep the engine ticking over. A gasoline engine must run stoichiometric and uses MUCH more fuel per hour at idle. That's why semi's can get away with idling overnight.

The faster you drive (or, the more power that you demand from your engine) the less the advantage of diesel. If you had two 90 BHP Golfs (or similar) running flat-out, one gas and the other diesel, the diesel would still be more efficient but not by nearly as much as in city driving.

Your reasoning is sound, too bad it does not pan out in the real world. The TDI actually reigns supreme on the highway as well, because its torque enables it to easily push the car through the air at a much lower RPM. That's why most TDIs can still get over 40 MPG with ease even at high 80+ speeds, but the comparable 2.0L gas engine in the same car drops to around 20 to 23 at best. I've had both, the TDI beats the crap out of the gasser MPG wise everywhere.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Assuming the Diesel option is going to cost and extra $1,500 dollars in the US would it "pay" to get a Diesel considering my current 5000 miles/city driving a year? Nevertheless, I'm fairly certain that Diesel may well be a good investment from the resale point of view. I've read a number of posts where a Diesel owner (Jettas) saw their resale value increase. I guess what I'm trying to do is "convince" myself to go the Diesel route. What say you???

You hit the nail right on the head. Resale. Let me run a few numbers by you, from the Canadian blackbook; all are for a 2002 Jetta GLS, no additional options, manual trans, 100,000 km on the odo:

TDI resale low $11k, high $12.8k
2.0 (base engine) resale: low $6.1k, high $7.8k...difference approx $5k!!!
1.8T resale: low $7.6k, high $9.2k...difference, approx $3k (and you had to pay extra for the 1.8T too!)
VR6 resale: low 8.1k, high 9.8k, difference approx. $3k.

 

[frugality]

Short trips aren't good for any car, but worse for a diesel. Diesels just take longer to warm up, so you're going to be spending a lot of time running the car cold. With a gasser, it'll heat you and the car up quicker. And city driving is bad when it comes to the problem of diesel intake clogging. It will remain to be seen whether that's a problem with the new TDI's or not. Consider also that getting good TDI service is difficult in most areas. When everything is taken into consideration, the gasser might not be a bad option when not a whole lot of miles are driving.

 

[bhtooefr]

If you're looking at driving the distances that wouldn't let a TDI warm up, maybe even a gasser isn't right for you (unless you keep the car around just for long trips - which is what I'll do when I move to 2.4 miles from work.)

Maybe something more like this would be right for you:


(Not mine, unfortunately.)

 

[BrentRN]

Carpages.ca 2009 Jetta TDI test drive

Carpages.ca posted a test drive review of the new TDI Jetta.
Highlight of the article:
Twist the key and listen. There's no abrupt explosion when the engine comes to life, no cacophony, no rattle and thanks to quick-heating glow-plugs, no waiting either. Amongst other things that are missing are oily smoke and the smell of half-burnt hydrocarbons. Turn the key off, and twist it again. The two-litre fires up with no vibration once again. And again. And again. At idle, it's quieter than a 2.0T. It's hard to believe how quiet this thing
actually is, but when you get the opportunity to hear it, trust your ears.
On the road, it's got a deeper sound, a sound that's almost like the 2.5-litre inline-five motor, but without the off-key warble, and at three quarters the volume. Goodness this engine is quiet, and it pulls strongly and cleanly from idle. It'll still be a ways before performance figures are announced, but it feels quicker than the base gas-powered Jetta. A VW engineer on hand confirmed this to be true; after all, it makes 63 lb-ft more torque than the recently revised '08 2.5, has a faster-shifting gearbox and a turbo to help keep things going. Otherwise, the car drives just like a Jetta, solid and Germanic through and through.

 

[kmil]

Your Post

Thanks for the article. It is much appreciated. I have a question though I'm sure you can't give us/me a definitive answer as the car is too new.
However, would you or anyone else have an idea as to how much faster the engine "warmup" might be compared to the 2006 Jetta Diesel. The reason I ask is that most of my driving would be done "in town" as opposed to highway miles. I also understand that too much in town driving is not the best thing for a diesel as it allegedly causes some kind of "carbon" buildup in the engine.

I had heard that if the new '08 diesel warmsup faster it would be "better" for the engine. I guess what I'm trying to ask is that if indeed the new diesel warms up faster than the previous engine........then would that have less of a negative effect on "gook" buildup in the engine. Pls email me at: kmil123@msn.com

Thanks for your time and attention!

 

[Peoria_TDI]

I have a friend who is wanting to buy a 2008 Jetta TDI. Has anyone been able to confirm the release date? I apologize if this has already been covered, didn't feel like reading through 431 posts. TIA.

 

[DwightC]

I have a friend who is wanting to buy a 2008 Jetta TDI. Has anyone been able to confirm the release date? I apologize if this has already been covered, didn't feel like reading through 431 posts. TIA.

Still april 2008 as far as Ive heard. It'll be a 2009 model.

 

[Jibeho]

Just got the nod from my wife to buy a new diesle Jetta when avalable. Going to keep the TDI NB, car owes me nothing.

 

[wait4TDIPD]

Thanks for the article. It is much appreciated. I have a question though I'm sure you can't give us/me a definitive answer as the car is too new.
However, would you or anyone else have an idea as to how much faster the engine "warmup" might be compared to the 2006 Jetta Diesel. The reason I ask is that most of my driving would be done "in town" as opposed to highway miles. I also understand that too much in town driving is not the best thing for a diesel as it allegedly causes some kind of "carbon" buildup in the engine.I had heard that if the new '08 diesel warmsup faster it would be "better" for the engine. I guess what I'm trying to ask is that if indeed the new diesel warms up faster than the previous engine........then would that have less of a negative effect on "gook" buildup in the engine. Pls email me at: kmil123@msn.com

Thanks for your time and attention!

It still might take few months until all the diesel stations are "washed" clean of any remaining "old" diesel. By the time the new Jettas come around next April, I doubt, that the intake clogging will still be an issue. In Europe, where they had ULSD 'clean diesel', for many years, they hardly know of such a problem with the intake clogging.
The new German diesels are so stuffed full of high tech improvements, it boggles my mind and I do believe, that many issues, as they are discussed here in these forums, will be a thing of the past.
Of course, with lots of new built-in technology, there is exposure to new vulnerability......beta testing is human nature, we would still be in the stone age.......

 

[kmil]

Wait4TDIPD:

Thanks for your reply but you seemed to have NOT opined on my question. Please read email again and you'll see that I was asking about what difference, IF ANY, might there be on the WARMUP of the NEW '08 TDI in COMPARISON to the previous ('06 VW TDI). Basically it would seem to me that if the new '08 TDI warms up FASTER than the '06 the the problem on potential intake clogging might be greatly REDUCED! What say you? Once again, thanks for your time and consideration!

 

[darkscout]

Wait4TDIPD:

Thanks for your reply but you seemed to have NOT opined on my question. Please read email again and you'll see that I was asking about what difference, IF ANY, might there be on the WARMUP of the NEW '08 TDI in COMPARISON to the previous ('06 VW TDI). Basically it would seem to me that if the new '08 TDI warms up FASTER than the '06 the the problem on potential intake clogging might be greatly REDUCED! What say you? Once again, thanks for your time and consideration!

I hope it never warms up.

Warming up = Wasted energy.
Wasted energy = less fuel economy.

Theoretically if your engine was 100% efficient you would *never* get heat.

 

[frugality]

I find the waste heat to be a nice plus right about this time of year...

If you can get better than 50% thermal efficiency, hire yourself to one of the automakers quick.

 

[bhtooefr]

Better than 50% thermal efficiency isn't a problem.

Just gotta have an engine that's measured in the hundreds or thousands of liters.

 

[kmil]

Will the Basic model of the new '08 Jetta Diesel have a built in trip computer? OR......does the previous Jetta model have a trip computer and if so, is it basic OR does it come in a "higher" package? Let me know at: kmil123@msn.com

 

[tomo366]

nobody knows yet.......The first car won't be built for months.....

 

[domboy]

Hybridcars.com posted a short write-up on the TDI sportswagen on their front page

http://www.hybridcars.com/news2/volkswagen-unveils-clean-diesel-jetta-sportwagen.html

A user comment by "Richibald" mentions aluminum heads on TDIs being failure prone. I've never heard of this (actually I'm not even sure what the head IS made out of... but maybe I'm just uninformed). Anyone care to comment, and set the record straight?

 

[bhtooefr]

They are made out of aluminum, and they haven't been failure-prone since 1982. Just don't overheat them.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

They are made out of aluminum, and they haven't been failure-prone since 1982. Just don't overheat them.

Or break the timing belt. Can't blame that on the head, however.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Or break the timing belt. Can't blame that on the head, however.

That's usually a "Code 18" failure mode... in other words the cause is sitting 18" behind the steering wheel.

 

[bhtooefr]

Known in the IT industry as Error ID10T.

 

[SilverGhost]

We just say there's a loose nut/screw behind the wheel. Never really figured out how to tighten that one.

Jason

 

[Dumanehu]

Known in the IT industry as Error ID10T.

HAHA- ID Ten Tango

 

[billhess]

fyi

Take this for wht it's worth. I was at a dealer yesterday and the sale manager said he sent an email to ask about the release of the 08 jetta and they told him it would not be until mid summer now. Yes I know it sounds vague, no I don't know who "they" are. Just what a sale mgr said to me, take it for what it's worth.

 

[Derrel H Green]

Another TDI Delay . . .

As post here Monday, November 12, 2007 in their daily newsletter:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071111/FREE/71109012/-1/newsletter01

By RICHARD TRUETT, AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

"A problem with the emissions system in Volkswagen’s new Jetta TDI will delay the launch of the diesel sedan for about six months. The car is critical to VW’s plans to get back on track in the United States.

VW spokesman Keith Price confirmed that the delay will be announced this week at the Los Angeles auto show. Price would not give specifics about the technical problem, but he said it has been fixed."

I read the entire article and am glad I didn't wait for it.

The TDI was supposed to be available in early spring, remember?