First algae-derived diesel hits the pumps...

[tditom]

Tom

Its a little surprising that while you cannot recommend tdi's > MY2006 because of VWs cynical handling of the HPFP problem, you are confident that they will deal with this issue in a more straightforward way. Donating four cars is a modest commitment and the phrase 'to measure effects' sounds to me like the jury is still out.

Anyway we have a difference of opinion. I think I'm right - but I hope you are.

John

John,
If they require fuel that meets ASTM D975, and this fuel meets that spec, then how can VW give you grief for using an in-spec fuel? There is no issue to deal with.

 

[tditom]

That's why I said "sulphur is one of the many things in LSD that helps the lubrication". Sulphur by itself does not give lubrication but with all of the other gunk in the LSD, it helps with the lubrication.

How does sulfur "help with lubrication" if it does not provide any directly?

 

[WutGas?]

John,
If they require fuel that meets ASTM D975, and this fuel meets that spec, then how can VW give you grief for using an in-spec fuel? There is no issue to deal with.

Exactly, they would have to "change" what fuels they would accept for them not to accept this fuel. Not the other way around.

 

[wxman]

If anyone is interested, there was a presentation given by ConocoPhillips at the 2007 DEER Conference that highlights some of the chemistry involved in producing renewable diesel (from various feedstocks). It's at http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2007/session5/deer07_cornforth.pdf.

 

[kjclow]

Here's the response I got back from Solazyme. If anyone in the SF area is interested in getting a hold of Stephanie from Solazyme, please pm me and I'll give you her email. I do not feel comfortable posting it here without her permission. I suggested to her that they look into the vendor area of tdiclub.

Hi Kent,

Thank you for your interest in Solazyme and Soladiesel RD. Soladiesel has
been verified by private independent 3rd party labs, government labs -
National Renewable Energy Labs (NREL) and Volkswagen that our fuel meets or
exceeds the requirements (including lubricity) for ASTM D975 - the
standard specification for diesel fuel. I mention Volkswagen as we are
currently involved in a year-long fuel evaluation program with VW where we
are driving a 2012 Jetta and Passat TDI on Soladiesel RD (see attached
photo). Additionally, VW evaluated our fuel at their Wolfsburg facility and
will be continuously evaluating their performance at their California
Testing Facility throughout the year. One of the benefits of Soladiesel RD
is that the fuel contains virtually no sulfur.

How can we find out more about VW meet ups in the SF Bay area as we would
love to show off Soladiesel powered TDI’s to some true fans?

 

[chudzikb]

I have been thinking about investment in this company for some time now. They have kind of gone beyond the "fuel" replacement model into more high end lubricants and oils. They have really done a good job developing oils for for the cosmetic industry. With limited capital the creation of large facitlities to "scale up" to make fuel is difficult. They have done great work with joint ventures with other companies putting up the capital to develop facilities to make their products. Bunge in Brazil comes to mind. As well as Dow Corning. (I think)

The problem has been the company has become sort of a political football. Not a good place to be in an election year.

 

[MethylEster]

As always this will come down to the price of the product.

How much per gallon??

 

[wxman]

As always this will come down to the price of the product.

How much per gallon??

Another biofuels company (AFS BioOil) claims that it may be able to produce algal biodiesel at $2/gallon (http://www.afsbiooil.com/news_73112.html). It appears to be FAME biodiesel, however, not HVO ("renewable diesel").

 

[mrGutWrench]

__. Is there any requirement to "register" fuels with EPA? It all smacks of the kind of spin that scammers use -- proclaiming that something is "approved" by the government when no such thing is even applicable. Maybe this company is straight and onto something. But I'm not impressed now.

 

[RI_TDI]

A quick bit of Googling seems to indicate that (in the US) each state has quality requirements for motor fuels and they mostly point at the ASTM standards. Solazyme is justified to brag that Soladiesel has been certified to meet ASTM D975, it is not in my opinion the sort hucksterism Mr. GutWrench describes.

I was in SF last week and tried to meet with someone, anyone at Solazyme to talk about their "work" with VW and the product in general, and got the firm but polite brush-off from Stephanie. She is definitely in the PR department but moderately knowledgable for a non-tech person. Visitors are not allowed 'for security reasons', even those willing to surrender wireless devices and sign nondisclosure agreements. Fundamentally, you'd have to have a friend in the plant to get in, but if you had that friend you'd probably be able to get up to speed without a plant visit anyway.

I did glean some insight from our conversation. Remember Stephanie is in PR and therefore is trained to say almost nothing in as cheerful and enthusiastic manner as is possible. If you keep the conversation going and circle back to the same question a few times, some actual content mat escape.

One is that big time production is a long way off - in time and space. The pilot plant in CA is not designed to produce quantity, and the proof-of-concept plant in Peoria, IL produces 2,000,000 liters/year, about 60% of what my local biodiesel outfit produces from collected restaurant oil.

The big production is to be developed jointly with Bunge, in Brazil. I guess I should not be surprised, its way cheaper to build and operate the plant there because the labor is cheaper and the analogs of OSHA and EPA down there are not as powerful. Its a bummer that a big plant will not be in the US both for reasons of jobs and the pump cost of the product.

As far as the VW participation goes, she confirmed they are basically running several vehicles on Soladiesel for tests of long-term effects. We knew that. She was cagey about whether any of this work meant VW would approve the fuel. No surprise there either. I doubt we'd get anything meaningful from VW either at this stage.

 

[tditom]

Thanks for the additional info, RI.

...She was cagey about whether any of this work meant VW would approve the fuel. No surprise there either. I doubt we'd get anything meaningful from VW either at this stage.

I would be very surprised if Solazyme was to speak on VW's plans for approval of anything.

 

[wxman]

Sapphire Energy, Inc. announced that the first phase of its Green Crude Farm, a commercial demonstration algae-to-energy facility, is now operational. Construction of this first phase, which began on 1 June 2011, was completed on time and on budget. When completed, the facility will produce 1.5 million gallons per year of crude oil and consist of approximately 300 acres of algae cultivation ponds and processing facilities...

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/08/sapphire-20120827.html

 

[RI_TDI]

Thanks for the additional info, RI.
I would be very surprised if Solazyme was to speak on VW's plans for approval of anything.

agreed. I didn't expect them to but felt compelled to follow up by earlier discussion in this thread.

 

[bhtooefr]

__. Is there any requirement to "register" fuels with EPA? It all smacks of the kind of spin that scammers use -- proclaiming that something is "approved" by the government when no such thing is even applicable. Maybe this company is straight and onto something. But I'm not impressed now.

Yes there is, under section 211 of the Clean Air Act, according to the EPA's website: http://www.epa.gov/oms/fuels/registrationfuels/index.htm

 

[Rual817]

I do think this is great news, but how did this thread go this far without the $64,000 question: who will let you burn this stuff and not void your warranty? VW? I don't think so.

I am at work and don't have time to look up a link. VW is partnered with solazyme right now working on their technology. If they have a vested interest in this technology, I am sure they will support the use of it in their product. If you do some research on Solazyme, they have some big name partners and investors. Plus from what I understand the fuel far exceeds all standards.

http://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdige...myris-ink-pact-to-validate-advanced-biofuels/

This article was 8/13 (2 wks ago). summary: VW gave Solazyme and Amyris each 2-'12 Passat's and 2-'12 Jetta's for 12mo. "...in order to closely examine the effects that the fuels produced by Amyris and Solazyme will have on Volkswagen clean diesel technology and the environment."

 

[mrGutWrench]

Yes there is, under section 211 of the Clean Air Act, according to the EPA's website: http://www.epa.gov/oms/fuels/registrationfuels/index.htm

__. Ah, yes, entirely "self-registration". I have no idea how stringent EPA's enforcment of these requirements it, but basically it appears to be all paperwork. Nothing here means that anything registered "works".

__. I hope that Solyndra (ooopps, I mean "Solazyme") can develop a workable economic process to produce fuel, but I haven't seen anything that shows me that there's anything there more than a good story (and maybe a couple of good lab people). I'm looking forward to seeing how this will turn out.

 

[GaryTDI]

Can't wait until March 2013. Hopefully VW will produce some information after their completion of this trial.

http://youtu.be/-dTqvIHuCtM

The link above is a PR piece put out by Solazyme but it has a VW Engineer in it talking about the testing. Since it started in March this year maybe (hopefully) we will hear an update in about 5 months or so.

 

[riddleyo]

Old video, but a good background:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxGWsE13MzQ

 

[B100]

I have been thinking about investment in this company for some time now. They have kind of gone beyond the "fuel" replacement model into more high end lubricants and oils. They have really done a good job developing oils for for the cosmetic industry. With limited capital the creation of large facitlities to "scale up" to make fuel is difficult. They have done great work with joint ventures with other companies putting up the capital to develop facilities to make their products. Bunge in Brazil comes to mind. As well as Dow Corning. (I think)

The problem has been the company has become sort of a political football. Not a good place to be in an election year.

Thankfully, we have now settled the question of whether renewable and synthetic fuels will find favor with a new administration. I expect Solazyme to be around for a while, and look forward to seeing what Solazyme comes through with.

 

[wxman]

Propel Fuels & Solazyme Deliver World’s First Consumer Access to Algae-based Fuel

Companies to Kick-off Month-long market pilot program on advanced biofuels

REDWOOD CITY, Calif. (November 13, 2012) – Beginning today, Propel Fuels (www.propelfuels.com), a leading retailer of renewable fuels and clean mobility solutions, and Solazyme, Inc. (NASDAQ: SZYM), a renewable oil and bioproducts company, are bringing algae-derived fuel to retail pumps for what we believe to be the first time in history. The two leading renewable fuel brands have come together to offer Solazyme’s algae-based Soladiesel®BD to drivers through Propel’s Bay Area network of retail renewable fuel locations. The month-long pilot program provides the industry’s first opportunity to test consumer response to this advanced renewable fuel....

http://propelfuels.com/news_and_med...orlds_first_consumer_access_to_algae_based_f/

 

[B100]

http://propelfuels.com/news_and_med...orlds_first_consumer_access_to_algae_based_f/

Good news, I have been wanting to try Solazyme's fuel ever since I visited their facility. The annoying Propel site does not give a handy list of which sites have B100, you have to click through each outlet to find the fuels they carry.

 

[kiwibru]

Jeez, Bay area only...Propel has outlets clear up here in WA state but I guess they want to keep it close to home. It would have been nice to be able to try it out. Just waiting...

 

[RNDDUDE]

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/futureoftech/first-algae-derived-fuel-hits-pumps-1C7048163

 

[Jethro]

I am very sad that I live in such a backwards state.
The availability of BioDiesel, regardless of base is near non existent.

 

[slk23]

I've been filling up with Propel B5 at one of the stations that is now selling the algae B20. I'd like to try B20 but it's seemingly impossible to get a definitive answer regarding the safety of using anything higher than B5 in the CR engines.

 

[saizzz]

B20 "SoladieselBD"

Propel is offering Algae derived BD at some locations now. They claim, "SoladieselBD meets or exceeds ASTM quality specifications and has shown performance enhancements including cold temperature operating performance."

Would you run it in your in warranty TDI?

http://propelfuels.com/newsletters/algae-biodiesel-launch/algae-biodiesel-launch.html

 

[powerfool]

The thing is, this algae fuel is supposed to be identical to diesel... not like how hippies say that biodiesel is "identical" to diesel, but molecularly identical. VW is working with them on this. I guess it is still caveat emptor, but I would feel safe with this... they are already being cautious by going with only B20, rather than B100, which shouldn't be a problem if their claims are true.

 

[tditom]

Here's a list of the Propel stations that will carry SolaDieselBD for the pilot program:

Tomorrow's fuel today.
Propel Fuels and Solazyme have partnered to launch the nation's first publicly available algae-derived biodiesel at Propel stations across the Bay Area.
In this month-long pilot program, Solazyme's high quality algae-based SoladieselBD will be offered in a B20 blend for the same price as conventional diesel fuels. This groundbreaking fuel will be available exclusively at Propel's Clean Fuel Points in Redwood City, San Jose (North 1st Street), Berkeley, and Oakland.
Propel Locations Offering SoladieselBD
Berkeley Clean Fuel Point
849 University Ave
@ the 76 station
Oakland Clean Fuel Point
350 Grand Ave
@ the Chevron station
Redwood City Clean Fuel Point
503 Whipple Ave
@ the Valero station
San Jose, 1st Street Clean Fuel Point
1002 North 1st St
@ the 76 station
What is algae biodiesel?
Propel's B20 is made of 20% SoladieselBD (an algae-derived biodiesel made by Solazyme) and 80% petroleum diesel. Domestically produced from micro algae that efficiently convert sugars into renewable oil, SoladieselBD is a clean-burning, precision quality fuel that is compatible with all diesel vehicles.
For more information about SoladieselBD, please visit Solazyme's Fuels page.
Who can use algae biodiesel?
Like all of Propel's high quality biodiesel blends, Biodiesel B20 featuring SoladieselBD is compatible with all existing diesel engines. SoladieselBD meets or exceeds ASTM quality specifications and has shown performance enhancements including cold temperature operating performance. And of course, Propel's algae biodiesel is backed by our Performance Guarantee.
Learn more about running Biodiesel B20 by visiting our Resources page.
What are the emissions benefits?
Testing undertaken by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) shows that, in a 20% blend, SoladieselBD significantly outperforms ultra-low sulfur diesel in total hydrocarbons (THC), carbon monoxide (CO) and particulate matter tailpipe emissions. This includes an approximate 30% reduction in particulates, a 20% reduction in CO and an approximate 10% reduction in THC.

 

[john.jackson9213]

Officially on sale at retail right now:

First algae-derived fuel hits the pumps

20%algae fuel for $4.23/gal. And that is on par with D2 for the Bay Area.

 

[john.jackson9213]

I am very sad that I live in such a backwards state.
The availability of BioDiesel, regardless of base is near non existent.

Don't know if I would call N.M. backwards. Last time I drove from Calif. to San Antonio the lowest diesel prices I saw were in New Mexico. Way more that $1.00 less than California. And N.M is a way smaller market than just parts of California.