Filtration to improve reliablity of the HPFP

[ATR]

HPFP seems to be a hot button topic here and the worry of many fellow CR TDI owners.

I keep reading "lubrication" in pretty much every thread that I've read so far. While that is a good thing to have the subject I most often see left out is outright "Filtration".

2micron makes a fantastic kit that will prevent damage to the fuel system just in case bad things happen to the HPFP:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=375803

Extensive discussion on containing the HPFP failure:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=371278

Some good reading to see exactly why excellent fuel filtration is a requirement for diesels:
Part 1:
http://nicktane.com/osc/images/HDT_article_10-10-03.pdf
Part 2:
http://nicktane.com/osc/images/February HDT Fuel Article Part II.pdf

Filtration seems to make the most seance to prevent any damage to the fuel pump to start with. And 2micron's kit is a perfect "just in case".

Also to add here's what someone else did with their 2005 Jetta:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=337048

I just started to dig in to the vast amount of info for CR Diesels and thought I'd share a bunch of info that those looking for "what can I do" threads/articles.

I'll try to keep this thread updated as well as getting a good discussion going with everyone here regarding this subject

 

[JSWTDI09]

Do you have any information that proves that our fuel is dirty? Filtration is unimportant if there is nothing to filter out of the fuel. Don't get me wrong - extra filtration may well be a good thing. I am just wondering why you believe that additional filtration is necessary. We do have some members here who have replaced their stock fuel pump with a better (finer) one, but (as yet) there is no data confirming that it is improving the lifespan of anything.

We have data from several sources that proves that US diesel fuel has wildly varying lubricity (wear scar) ratings. We also have data from Bosch (the makers of the HPFP) stating that poor lubricity shortens the life expectancy of their fuel pumps. Therefore, we have good evidence that lubricity additives might be a good idea.

In the US, most diesel fuel is filtered as it is pumped into the tanker truck. It is then filtered again going from the tanker truck into the under ground tanks at the retail station. It is then filtered again as it is being pumped into out cars. Then is is filtered again between our lift pump and the Aux pump. You could put 10 extra filters in there if you want, how many is enough? I certainly do not know.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[DRbillZ]

Smacks of spam

 

[JSWTDI09]

Smacks of spam

...except that he doesn't actually seem to be selling anything (except an idea).

Have Fun!

Don

 

[wackypete]

Wouldn't the "wear scar" number be related to filtration? If the maximum particle size in your fuel is 100 microns could you have a wear-scar rating higher than 100?

 

[JSWTDI09]

Wouldn't the "wear scar" number be related to filtration? If the maximum particle size in your fuel is 100 microns could you have a wear-scar rating higher than 100?

This could be true *IF* there were actually any particles of this size in the fuel. We have no evidence that such particles exist. All of our fuel should have been filtered several times down to at least a level of 5 to 10 microns and usually even finer. Remember that the filters that 2micron uses in his contain flow kit are designed to be used on fuel station pumps and they are rated at either 1 or 2 microns. If you have any 100 micron particles in your fuel - something is seriously wrong either with your car or the place where you bought your fuel.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[TacoQuest]

Smacks of spam

Just curious DRbillz (and because you accused me of the same when I linked an amazon product), are you *that guy* on this forum who is like the judgmental spam cop? I find the information that the OP post informative, well laid out with other links, etc. He's not pushing/selling anything that appears to be motivated by his own financial interest.

Just wondering.

 

[Tuco]

I kind of doubt the filtration angle has much merit, unless there is particulate matter in the fuel that is sufficiently hard enough to scar metal. Soft particulates like dust, dirt, silt, etc will just be crushed and pummeled into smaller and smaller bits. Metal on metal is the kind of friction I worry about. Besides, I agree with Don that the fuel is already filtered before it enters your car's fuel tank, and then filtered again by your car's own fuel filter.

The one thing that has changed is there is less lubrication provided by current ULSD fuel, at least when compared to old school diesel fuel. This lubrication deficiency is easily mitigated by using a small percentage of biodiesel. I just don't see any downside to using up to 5% biodiesel.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

What a bunch of nay sayers.....
ATR
You are so right and don't let any of these guys put you off.
Dust and dirt is everywhere and if you think it is only metal you need to worry about. Take your air cleaner out and run it without and see what it gets you.
The cleaner the better.
Geeze
Besides lubrication and cooling what do you think oil does, suspends solids.
What solids, the solids that get caught in the oil. Be it soot, not just metal, anything not metal and is a byproduct of the environment gets suspended in there, dust from the air gets in there and the FILTER takes it out.
Fuel, it is kinda like oil, it's going ta suspend solids...work with me here...
the better the filter the less contaminates that you expect your little microscopic tolerances to have to deal with.
And with the pressures we are talkin about a little teenny tiny piece of chit will scar anything it wants to
and If it makes it to the injector it is goin to scar those little puppies too
Gawd I need a beer..

 

[ATR]

Thanks for reviving this thread Joe

I read over all in info I found in the first post. There's a couple PDFs (Part 1 & 2) with lots of info in them regarding how filtration impacts CR Diesel owners.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Warranty Approved?...lol

.....

2micron makes a fantastic kit that will prevent damage to the fuel system just in case bad things happen to the HPFP:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=375803

Extensive discussion on containing the HPFP failure:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=371278

.....
Filtration seems to make the most seance to prevent any damage to the fuel pump to start with. And 2micron's kit is a perfect "just in case".
...

Warranty Approved?
lol
Sorry couldn't help myself
I would love to get one of these installed but the way things are we don't dare touch anything that could be taken as a modification.
When the extended warranty is over we are thinking about ditchin the car.
Unless something drastic happens to instill confidence.....
Good Stuff ATR
Keep the Faith

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Thanks for reviving this thread Joe

I read over all in info I found in the first post. There's a couple PDFs (Part 1 & 2) with lots of info in them regarding how filtration impacts CR Diesel owners.

No Worries ATR my pleasure...
Not just CR's. All diesels need filtration.
CR's just have higher pressures and closer tolerances but all diesels need filtration.
Speaking of filtration.
If you are thinking about filling up and you see a fuel truck leaving, dumping or anywhere near your filling station. Don't fuel up there.
I have had filters plugged from what gets stirred up in the big tanks when they refill them.
The filters on the pumps stop some of it but more little stuff gets stirred up and goes through the filters and collects on yours.
Shorten the life of you filter for sure.
Personal experience. Not less than 20 miles down the road after a fill with a tanker pumping fuel I was shut down. Had to replace filter and it wasn't nearly due to be changed.

 

[ATR]

I'm finding it hard to think about getting rid of this car at the moment. Best car I've ever owned! Great MPG, FUN to drive, lots of leg and headroom, hatch back, Manual transmission...

I tested a bunch of other cars before I settled on the Golf TDi. No one else came close to offering all of the above.

A used BMW E60 528i 6mt w/sport package was on my short list, but alas, no hatch back. I know we have a wagon here but it's AWD only which kills any chance of MPG.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Hi ATR
I just posted this in the NHTSA UPDATE Thread and it is based on information you have provided so don't you dare bail on me.
after all yer in the Good ol US of A and V-DUB is still lookin after you....lol
Joe



Thank you Everyone
Question
Under normal driving conditions where a person doesn't daily beat on their vehicle...lol
After all ... normal is open to opinion.
Is the hpfp, and fuel pump sending unit the only weak point that is prone to failure under normal use?
I am trying to determine if I should install a 2 micron filter kit , when the vw extended warranty expires, so it would limit our expenses down the road if we keep the car.
Hate to throw equity away, through no fault of our own.
Joe

 

[ATR]

I see you're in Canada? I'd do everything possible to mitigate the damage if the HPFP decides to give up the ghost since VWOC hasn't been helpful to VW CR Diesels as far as helping with costs of repair.

2 micron filter for incoming fuel and 2micron's kits to limit the carnage to the pump alone needing replacment...
http://2microntech.com/contain-flow-kit/
http://2microntech.com/pure-flow-adapter/

2Micron's FS thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=375803

 

[Smokin_Joe]

I see you're in Canada? I'd do everything possible to mitigate the damage if the HPFP decides to give up the ghost since VWOC hasn't been helpful to VW CR Diesels as far as helping with costs of repair.
2 micron filter for incoming fuel and 2micron's kits to limit the carnage to the pump alone needing replacment...
http://2microntech.com/contain-flow-kit/
http://2microntech.com/pure-flow-adapter/
2Micron's FS thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=375803

And you are in the US, that is why I was telling you not to bail....lol
Warranty (extended) good till Dec 2017 and I was trying to justify keeping the car.
Good advice thx