Fender Audio: L to R mixup

Does your Fender stereo have iPod MDI audio issues?


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in2dwww

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When listening to Sirius, AM/FM, or CD there are no issues with audio quality.

However, when listening to devices through the MDI cable, I have the following issues:

1. The sound sometimes is missing midrange.
2. Sometimes the left and right channels get mixed up (left plays out the right speakers, and vice versa), and it does this DURING a song.

I complained to the dealer about my problem, and I even duplicated it for them, but they are stumped. We played a song, it flipped L/R to R/L on the fly... At one point, I replayed the first 10 seconds of the same song with two different iPods and it gave L/R, R/L mixups even at the beginning of track we played, and would switch at different time intervals every time.

We thought it was a bad MDI cable until I tested the Aux input and I got the same results with the L/R channels swapping sound, but the midrange is there in all it's glory.

How is it possible for the system to randomly swap left and right audio channels? As far as I know, it's only doing this on the MDI and Aux inputs, but I'll have to do some more tests and see if it can mix up on CD and SD.

Has anyone had this issue?

Is this a sign of a bad head unit or a bad amp? As I understand, the Fender system is only a 2 channel system (which is the minimum requirement for stereo sound) which is made by Panasonic, but tuned by Fender.
 

bboshart

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Yes! I have noticed the L/R reversing with my iPod too. I copied my songs to the HDD and no issue with playback from the HDD.
 

in2dwww

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have you tried blue tooth? guess ill have to see if mine does it too.
I have not, mainly because I just keep the iPod touch in the Passat and the iPod classic in my other car. They stay connected and charged and I rarely take them out. I listen to them vs radio most of the time.

This Fender system is the most troublesome car stereo I've ever encountered. It's a Swiss Army Knife of computability, but it's also bare bones and disappointing in the sound department, and it's frustratingly slow. All too much to tolerate at this point.
 

Jarrod B

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Which kind of music are you playing? I'm using paid iTunes music and hd pandora. The audio quality is perfect. Even with the vol up. The only poor audio quality I hear is the Sirius xm radio.

I think iTunes mp4 music is 256kpbs.
 

Mr. Furious

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I think iTunes mp4 music is 256kpbs.
Minor point of clarification to avoid potential confusion for folks who aren't familiar with the various implementations of mp4 - The .mp4 extension is used for MPEG4 files that contain video as well as audio. iTunes music is one of two formats. In the DRM days, it was 128kbps m4p files. Since they've ditched DRM, they're 256kbps m4a files.
 

in2dwww

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Here's some of the sample music... the L/R issue is not confined to these samples, but this is a vibrant mix of music for testing and the problem occurs with all of these songs via MDI and Aux. I will sample via SD and report back.

iTunes:
Adele: Skyfall
Awallnation: Sail
MGMT: Of Moons Birds & Monsters
Sting: Windmills of Your Mind
Gilberto Gil: Meteorum

MP3:
(Artist, Song, Type, Bit Rate, Sample Rate, Channels, Encoded)
Yes: Roundabout - MP3, 264 kbps (VBR), 44.100 kHz, Joint Stereo, LAME 3.97
Rusted Root: Drum Trip - MP3, 263 kbps (VBR), 44.100 kHz, Stereo, iTunes 9.0.2
Pavlov's Dog: Julia - MP3, 261 kbps (VBR), 44.100 kHz, Stereo, iTunes v7.7
Luciano Pavarotti: Nessun Dorma (Verdi) - MP3, 128 kbps, 44.100 kHz, Joint Stereo, Unknown Encoder
 

in2dwww

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UPDATE:
Dealer kept the car for 4 days. (I had a 2013 2.5 SE Passat as a loaner or punishment.)

Dealer heard the issue, but told me that it "can't be reproduced" by the tech. I went full-on nuclear ballistic and called VW Care. I explained the problem in detail and how I have a hunch it's the digital to analog converter in the amplifier or the MDI socket.

Dealer Service Manager called me and invited me to show them (for the 3rd time) what I'm experiencing in my car. They turned on "Sound Check" on the iPod, changed the Aux Input level to "Medium" and adjusted the "startup volume," but claimed not to have done anything else (no firmware upgrade on the head unit or anything).

With the manager in my car, we reproduced the issue on all the songs I sampled. The right side has more bias but would then switch to play out the left side... channels were switching. So we went to another 2013 TDI SEL with a 11/2012 build date. I was able to reproduce the same issue in that car as well.

VW now has a case open for this issue. It's something that not everyone would notice, I guess, but it's been driving me insane. VW will be looking into the system to see what's up.
 

Salsaman06

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Well this is interesting. I have some issues with the MDI input as well. I haven't noticed a L to R swap but I noticed that the volume will suddenly increase momentarily in one channel or another. And when one song ends and the next one starts, it always cuts off like the 1st second of the song. Its like it disabled the volume between songs and won't turn back on until the next song starts playing. Yeah, and I can never seem to get the frequency range balanced out. Weird. I have not tried the Aux in yet. I have tried the SD card and have not observed any of these quirks. But that hasn't been a controlled experiment to give a fair comparison. Will have to look at this further.
 

Salsaman06

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.... I have a hunch it's the digital to analog converter in the amplifier or the MDI socket.

Well FWIW, one thing to note is that the "Aux in" takes an analog signal not digital. The D to A conversion happens within the iPod itself. With regard to the MDI interface to the iPod, the Apple 30 pin connector certainly has pinouts for analog output, but the media could also be extracted digitally from the Firewire or USB interface pins - which would require the car's onboard D to A converters. The SD card interface would also use the onboard D to A converters. But I suspect the MDI interface uses the analog inputs leveraging the iPod's D to A converters rather than using any onboard converters. But thats based on what you said you observed and what my observations have been too.
Bottom line - I don't think the D to A converters are playing a part in this. But a good thought nonetheless.
 

TDI_SC

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I've had horrible sound quality from the CD player. The same song, played at 128 kb/s on even a cheapo MP3 player, sounds a helluva lot better than the CD, even when the MP3 comes from the same CD out of a laptop.

The D-A converter is pretty awful in that radio. I've complained and got "can't reproduce the problem".

TDI_SC
 

in2dwww

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I think the iPod's have a line level input, which means the volume output is static and not changeable through the iPod volume controls. In this sense, I would think that the output is digital and encoded through the head unit.

http://ramelectronics.blogspot.com/2011/03/line-level-audio-output-connection-for.html

http://beavishifi.com/articles/headphonejack/

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f78/mdi-ipod-distortion-72731.html#post877082

http://www.stereophile.com/content/ipod-dac-1

http://www.avsforum.com/t/824156/how-good-is-the-ipods-dac

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/ipod-bench-tested-3-2007-part-2.html

I'm not an audio engineer or electrical expert, but I think VW/Panasonic/Fender have some work to do.

Well FWIW, one thing to note is that the "Aux in" takes an analog signal not digital. The D to A conversion happens within the iPod itself. With regard to the MDI interface to the iPod, the Apple 30 pin connector certainly has pinouts for analog output, but the media could also be extracted digitally from the Firewire or USB interface pins - which would require the car's onboard D to A converters. The SD card interface would also use the onboard D to A converters. But I suspect the MDI interface uses the analog inputs leveraging the iPod's D to A converters rather than using any onboard converters. But thats based on what you said you observed and what my observations have been too.
Bottom line - I don't think the D to A converters are playing a part in this. But a good thought nonetheless.
 
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Salsaman06

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I think the iPod's have a line level input, which means the volume output is static and not changeable through the iPod volume controls. In this sense, I would think that the output is digital and encoded through the head unit.

http://ramelectronics.blogspot.com/2011/03/line-level-audio-output-connection-for.html

http://beavishifi.com/articles/headphonejack/

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f78/mdi-ipod-distortion-72731.html#post877082

http://www.stereophile.com/content/ipod-dac-1

http://www.avsforum.com/t/824156/how-good-is-the-ipods-dac

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/ipod-bench-tested-3-2007-part-2.html

I'm not an audio engineer or electrical expert, but I think VW/Panasonic/Fender have some work to do.
All iPods with the 30 pin connector have 3 different outputs:

1) headphone jack - an analog signal, it is both affected by the iPod volume control AND the iPod equalizer (EQ), iPod DAC is utilized

2) Line out (part of the 30-pin connector) - an analog signal, it is NOT affected by the iPod volume control but is IS affected by the iPod equalizer (EQ), iPod DAC is utilized

3) Digital (part of the 30-pin connector) - digital data in the music files is transferred to the external receiver via the USB or Firewire interfaces which are also part of the 30-pin connector. It is NOT affected by the iPod volume control. The external receiver's DAC is utilized in this case. I don't think it is affected by the EQ but I am not sure about that. I don't know if the iPod's EQ is digital or analog and I just don't feel like researching that at the moment.

*Some* iPods have a Bluetooth capability which is a 4th output. That one is strictly digital. I have not experimented with this one so won't comment any further on it.

I don't know how the RNS510 retrieves the music from the MDI. It could be analog or digital - but as I said I suspect it may be analog. In any event, I have a suggestion for you - look at your iPod's EQ settings. If it is turned on for any setting, turn it off. Then see if it makes any difference in your problems. I found that I had the EQ set at "bass boost" and when I turned it off, the problems I was experiencing went away. And I am wondering if you have been experiencing the same problems I have been seeing but just sounds like it is a L-R channel swapping?
 
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in2dwww

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The dealer checked all bulletins for the ipod, and they told me that the settings should be:

1. Aux Input Level: Normal
2. iPod: Sound Check ON

Both of these settings make no difference to solve my problem. Solution 1 simply boosts volume and adds distortion. Solution 2 is some witchcraft within the iPod that normalizes sound level across songs.

All iPods with the 30 pin connector have 3 different outputs:

1) headphone jack - an analog signal, it is both affected by the iPod volume control AND the iPod equalizer (EQ), iPod DAC is utilized

2) Line out (part of the 30-pin connector) - an analog signal, it is NOT affected by the iPod volume control but is IS affected by the iPod equalizer (EQ), iPod DAC is utilized

3) Digital (part of the 30-pin connector) - digital data in the music files is transferred to the external receiver via the USB or Firewire interfaces which are also part of the 30-pin connector. It is NOT affected by the iPod volume control. The external receiver's DAC is utilized in this case. I don't think it is affected by the EQ but I am not sure about that. I don't know if the iPod's EQ is digital or analog and I just don't feel like researching that at the moment.

*Some* iPods have a Bluetooth capability which is a 4th output. That one is strictly digital. I have not experimented with this one so won't comment any further on it.

I don't know how the RNS510 retrieves the music from the MDI. It could be analog or digital - but as I said I suspect it may be analog. In any event, I have a suggestion for you - look at your iPod's EQ settings. If it is turned on for any setting, turn it off. Then see if it makes any difference in your problems. I found that I had the EQ set at "bass boost" and when I turned it off, the problems I was experiencing went away. And I am wondering if you have been experiencing the same problems I have been seeing but just sounds like it is a L-R channel swapping?
 

TDI2000Zim

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I find no justification to using the iPod cable when the Bluetooth in my car works so well.
 

Salsaman06

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I find no justification to using the iPod cable when the Bluetooth in my car works so well.
My iPod doesn't have Bluetooth. So how well does it work when you have a phone connected by Bluetooth?


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Salsaman06

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The dealer checked all bulletins for the ipod, and they told me that the settings should be:

1. Aux Input Level: Normal
2. iPod: Sound Check ON

Both of these settings make no difference to solve my problem. Solution 1 simply boosts volume and adds distortion. Solution 2 is some witchcraft within the iPod that normalizes sound level across songs.
Did you try turning off the EQ on the iPod like I suggested? Which model is your iPod?


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in2dwww

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I always keep EQ off. I have the prior gen iPod touch (I think that's 5th gen) with iOS5.

I also have the old-school iPod video - remember, the tiny color screen and the round wheel? That's for my other car.

I keep them both in the cars, plugged in, ready to go.

I just tried using bluetooth on the iPod touch in the Passat. The sound quality is GARBAGE! How do people put up with that? Moreover, I can't even scroll through the songs from the RNS-510 like I could if I connected through the MDI cable. BT is one step forward, two steps backward.

Are all you BT audio streaming fans a bunch of 20-something hipsters? Or are you all in your 60's rocking CCR and can't hear well anymore? :)

Did you try turning off the EQ on the iPod like I suggested? Which model is your iPod?


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Jarrod B

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Odd. My Bluetooth is clear. I didn't know the mdi cable allows you to scroll through the songs. I gotta try that.
 

in2dwww

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Odd. My Bluetooth is clear. I didn't know the mdi cable allows you to scroll through the songs. I gotta try that.
How's that MDI connection working out for you?

BTW, out of curiosity, was your dealer quick to show you the BT connectivity? Being that it sounds like you never used the MDI connection and the car comes with the cable, it sounds like they "forgot" to mention this for some reason.
 

Jarrod B

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How's that MDI connection working out for you?
BTW, out of curiosity, was your dealer quick to show you the BT connectivity? Being that it sounds like you never used the MDI connection and the car comes with the cable, it sounds like they "forgot" to mention this for some reason.

just now tried it. not bad since i do have the on screen options on scrolling through the music. i just have the issue of the mdi cable being so short. im still waiting on my 3ft 30pin extension cable for it. i just wish the bluetooth had the same features.


yep the dealer got my iphone connected quickly through bluetooth. or i told them i wanted bluetooth. idr.
 

APT

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Moreover, I can't even scroll through the songs from the RNS-510 like I could if I connected through the MDI cable.
I actually prefer the interface of my phone far more than any OEM interface I have used. I can find a song, album, playlist, artist, etc far quicker using it that the radios. Thus, I detest the locking out of phone interface using the MDI cable or similar Apple integration for other OEMs.

The same source of music played on my iPhone 4S heard over Bluetooth and headphone jack sound the same to me, very good.

Are all you BT audio streaming fans a bunch of 20-something hipsters? Or are you all in your 60's rocking CCR and can't hear well anymore? :)
Mid 30's, but I'm not sure what age has to do with anything. You'll keep losing respect as you continue to insult so many people. Does wisdom come with age, experience, intelligence?
 

in2dwww

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I grabbed dinner tonight and it was snowing. On the drive home, I had the fogs, wipers, rear defrost, the heated seats, and the HVAC on and I noticed that the sound from the iPod was actually even and normal.

I was driving for a good 10 minutes and I was ecstatic! Then I wondered if my Fender stereo issues were due to a voltage problem, so I turned OFF the rear window defrost. Immediately, the Fender stereo went back to snapping and popping and going L/R crazy. I turned the window defrost back on and the popping and snapping stopped, then about a minute later, the L/R channels stopped swapping and the sound normalized.

I though that I might have found the problem... VOLTAGE. But then, during the last mile of my journey, it all went haywire again.

But now that I'm at home, I can't help but wonder if that 2013 TDI SEL on the lot that produced the same problems has a low battery. My car hasn't given me any low battery issues and I've had ZERO troubles with cold starts (other than the stiff brake pedal).

Could I be on to something??? Low voltage? Bad battery?
 

tdiatlast

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in2dwww: These perfect cars have had a few bad batteries reported by Passat owners (probably don't own any stock in VWoA...)
 

in2dwww

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Well, then, if a faulty battery is normal, I guess it's not covered under warranty. I'm glad VW left me high and dry with the problem so that I could troubleshoot the issue.

in2dwww: These perfect cars have had a few bad batteries reported by Passat owners (probably don't own any stock in VWoA...)
 

Salsaman06

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I grabbed dinner tonight and it was snowing. On the drive home, I had the fogs, wipers, rear defrost, the heated seats, and the HVAC on and I noticed that the sound from the iPod was actually even and normal.
I was driving for a good 10 minutes and I was ecstatic! Then I wondered if my Fender stereo issues were due to a voltage problem, so I turned OFF the rear window defrost. Immediately, the Fender stereo went back to snapping and popping and going L/R crazy. I turned the window defrost back on and the popping and snapping stopped, then about a minute later, the L/R channels stopped swapping and the sound normalized.
I though that I might have found the problem... VOLTAGE. But then, during the last mile of my journey, it all went haywire again.
But now that I'm at home, I can't help but wonder if that 2013 TDI SEL on the lot that produced the same problems has a low battery. My car hasn't given me any low battery issues and I've had ZERO troubles with cold starts (other than the stiff brake pedal).
Could I be on to something??? Low voltage? Bad battery?
Hmmm well that is an interesting observation. If it is a voltage problem, Lordy, a number of things come to mind - bad ground, voltage regulator, alternator...and a host of other possibilities. The electrical system on this car is not trivial to put it lightly.
 

viperman3

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I too have random crackling/popping in my 2013 Passat Highline. Has anyone with similar issues have any updates to fix this issue at the dealer?
 

ruadrim

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I have a Tiguan from mid 2013 and I have the same L/R swapping problem.
Tried the following without effect:
- Another MDI cable to the ipod.
- Other ipods.
- Self ripped MP3's instead of downloaded ones.
- MDI box replaced by dealer.

Nothing helped to remove the annoying LR switching. Did anyone find a solution yet?
 

rustycat

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Minor point of clarification to avoid potential confusion for folks who aren't familiar with the various implementations of mp4 - The .mp4 extension is used for MPEG4 files that contain video as well as audio. iTunes music is one of two formats. In the DRM days, it was 128kbps m4p files. Since they've ditched DRM, they're 256kbps m4a files.
Mr. Furious,
Perhaps you can answer a question that I have not previously found any answer for. When I transfer my music from my laptop to an SD card using Windows Vista from Windows media wma files the files convert to MPEG4 and become unreadable for the RNS 510. I've tried to figure out how to prevent the conversion, but have not made any progress (In fact, I just gave up in frustration). Any light you could shed on this frustrating situation would be most appreciated.
TIA,
RC
 
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