Favorite Oil for 2009 CBEA?

[tditom]

remember that many of the CR owners are n00bs

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Right, and many of them insist on not listening to over a decade of TDI wisdom... so it's a moot point no matter how you slice it.

 

[Elfnmagik]

lol- reading comprehension, anyone? I guess you are NOT an anti-507 guy. so why are you answering??

and why do you edit nearly every single post you make?

Funny you mention it. I'm having a hard time comprehending your insuation, but anyways.

I edit my posts because I usually find a spelling error or 3. Bother you?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Funny you mention it. I'm having a hard time comprehending your insuation, but anyways.

I edit my posts because I usually find a spelling error or 3. Bother you?

You spelled insinuation wrong. You should edit your post.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[tditom]

...
I edit my posts because I usually find a spelling error or 3. Bother you?

not usually (i mean i don't usually bother- not that i don't usually have spelling or grammar errors )

 

[Elfnmagik]

You spelled insinuation wrong. You should edit your post.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

See what I mean? I'm always in a rush and am a terrible typist. Anyways, time for some juice.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Firefox has a built-in spell checker.

 

[ruking]

http://www.tdiparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=479

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=2&pcid=21

Most of the 5w30 505.01 oils are also ACEA A3.

Bob, thanks for the links to at least two more ACEA A3 oils you can use in a CBEA engine !. So you see the "consequences" are straight out of the 2009 TDI VW owners manual (sedan) Again an oil that meets the ACEA A3 specification . (5w30 preferred)

As a further side bar, the ACEA A3 5w30 Total INEO MC3 is 22% cheaper than the TOTAL Quartz INEO VW 507.00. (Pete's site)

 

[Rod Bearing]

The first engine in my 06 (BRM) went to 54,009 miles before the DMF shat on things and ruined the power train. I looked at the cam from that engine and it had pretty severe wear taking place on several lobes and it always had Castrol 505.01 bought at the dealer and changed by me on time, every time.

The warranty engine (brand new) has as of tonight, 24,306 on the clock and I looked at it a month ago and it already has wear on the cam. Again, since new, dealer supplied and changed by me on time, every time, Castol 505.01.

Delvac 1300 Super is an outstanding oil made for DPF and EGR Turbocharged Diesels and is even for gasoline engines. I'm going that route at the next OCI on EVERY VW car I currently own, which is an 06 Jetta (BRM), an 09 GTI with the 2.0 Turbo (CCTA), and 2 2009 Jetta's (CBEA).

This oil is specifically designed to be run in Diesels and Gassers with the newest engine management systems on the planet, including clean diesels with ultra high pressure common rail Piezo injection, and the latest technology in exhaust system after treatment systems. I see the results of this oil's excellence every day.

VW may not have it on their list, but the oils that are are not protecting the BRM anyhow. BFD.

Mobil Delvac 1300 Super Meets or Exceeds the following industry and builder specifications:
10W-30
15W-40
API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CF/SM, SL
API CF-2
ACEA E7/E5


Mobil Delvac 1300 Super has the following builder approvals:Mobil Delvac 1300 Super has the following builder approvals:
10W-30
15W-40
Caterpillar ECF-3
Cummins CES 20081
Detroit Diesel Power Guard Oil Specification 93K218
Mack EO-O Premium Plus
Mercedes Benz MB-Approval 228.3, 228.31
Volvo VDS-4, VDS-3, VDS-2

 

[Bob_Fout]

 

[BTL]

My manual states an ACEA A3 oil can be used, but only as a top off and not more than a half quart.

Again...I don't think 507 is anything more than a low SAPS oil. I think any diesel oil designed for DPF would work well. In fact, as long as you aren't burning oil, any synthetic, high quality, diesel rated oil would do well.

Delvac....

 

[DPM]

Rod, where's the ACEA C- rating for that oil? What are the differences between (say) ACEA C3 and E7?

 

[ruking]

Rod, where's the ACEA C- rating for that oil? What are the differences between (say) ACEA C3 and E7?

The answers or lack there of, to questions like these are the real points or reasons in Bob Fout's msg 69. Indeed the Delvac One 5w40 was/still NOT VW (505.00@ that time) certified, but met/still meets a FAR higher standard. However as you can see by his picture of the sourced document, you would NOT get that reading the VW owners manual. Further research would be in order to know that, let alone come to that conclusion and make the switch from VW 505.00.

 

[Bob_Fout]

The use of conventional oil in TDIs is discussed in my CJ-4 oil thread (see sig).

Rod, hope you never go anywhere colder than 20*F with that dino 15w40.

 

[tditom]

back to basics

...Delvac One 5w40 was/still NOT VW 505.00 certified, but met/still meets a FAR higher standard. However as you can see by his picture of the sourced document, you would NEVER get that reading the VW owners manual...

pre-PD engines did not require a VW spec oil. The API CF-4 spec was fine. So Delvac1 did not need to meet that spec to be approved for tdi's. Therefore it was OK'd by VW for use in the tdi engine. I don't see how anyone could come to any other conclusion by reading the manual

When the PD engine came on the scene, VW no longer OK'd the use of API spec oils. This applies to the CR engine as well. This is not to say that some oils won't work just fine, but you're screwed if you try to get VW to back their warranty if you've been using "non-spec" oil

 

[ruking]

pre-PD engines did not require a VW spec oil. The API CF-4 spec was fine. So Delvac1 did not need to meet that spec to be approved for tdi's. Therefore it was OK'd by VW for use in the tdi engine. I don't see how anyone could come to any other conclusion by reading the manual

When the PD engine came on the scene, VW no longer OK'd the use of API spec oils. This applies to the CR engine as well. This is not to say that some oils won't work just fine, but you're screwed if you try to get VW to back their warranty if you've been using "non-spec" oil

While you seem to agree with my choice of Delvac One 5w40 over the years, it would be hard to come to that conclusion: 1. @ that time 2. when there was no PD engine on the market. So your argument is strictly arm chair 2nd string quarter backing.

It would also be hard when the recommendation is to use 505.00 oils, just like they are saying to use 507.00 oils now. Hind sight is 20/20. So let me ask you. Did you use Delvac One 5w40 for your 2001 back then? If not, why not?

Indeed the PD engines(starting 2004) run well on Mobil One 5w40 !!! There was even more controversy about that @ that time !! I was one among few that indicated Delvac One 5w40/Mobil One 5w40 would do just fine !! I would of course hasten to add and did, I did not have the 2004 PD. It would also seem that oxymoronically most of the camshaft failures were in cars that actually used VW specified oils !!!!! There seems to be little documented (on this web site anyway) of camshaft failures/excessive wear due to Delvac/Mobil One use !!? Indeed I am glad I did not get the PD engine or the 01M automatic transmission. Evidently (reading this web site) the 2003 of the MK IV series was and remains one of the better MY's (sans the 01M automatic transmission).

So it would appear that part of latter model year VW ownership is successful "bullet dodging". So how do you like those ACEA A3 5w30 oils in the 2009 VW TDI CBEA engine IAW the owners manual!!??

 

[tditom]

.... Did you use Delvac One 5w40 for your 2001 back then?....

all your other babbling aside, i have used the following oils in my MY01 ALH:
VW505.00 (various makes and weights)
VW505.01 Elf 5W30
Delvac1
TDT
Rotella T 5W40

 

[ruking]

all your other babbling aside, i have used the following oils in my MY01 ALH:
VW505.00 (various makes and weights)
VW505.01 Elf 5W30
Delvac1
TDT
Rotella T 5W40

A little touchy are you, especially when you are the one babbling?

I see a lot of mix and match in oil choices. What were the advantages disadvantages?. What did your "experimentation" yield?

I have used Delvac One 5w40 from right after the 5,000 mile factory fill OCI.

 

[tditom]

over 240K miles i've had lots of oil changes and have used whatever was on sale or easiest to get.

Back to the subject of this thread- there has not been enough data collected to determine if one VW507 oil is "better" than another. keep it simple and stick to the spec. Don't let the PD cam problems scare you into voiding your warranty

 

[ruking]

over 240K miles i've had lots of oil changes and have used whatever was on sale or easiest to get.

Back to the subject of this thread- there has not been enough data collected to determine if one VW507 oil is "better" than another. keep it simple and stick to the spec. Don't let the PD cam problems scare you into voiding your warranty

Well for sure I wish you at least another 240,000 miles !! I am shooting for 500,000 miles minimum also. Let's see so far in 120,000 miles I have done 6 oil changes.

Why would you think I would disagree with the notion that:

..."there has not been enough data collected to determine if one VW507 oil is "better" than another." ... ???

The challenge NOW, as back in the 03 Delvac One 5w40 days is to take a bet and select and stay with or change to the ones shown to be of the best. But yes, a good spin off would be if they are substantially the same, buy em on price !!!

The current issue/problem is the VW 507.00 is 7.50 to 10 per liter, so the issues are a little more "picky picky". To stay on the main point/principle, this is essentially what was done with Delvac One 5w40 et al., back in 2003.

I can tell from your chronology that you did not embrace the Delvac One 5w40 when new!! If so, why did you use all those VW 505.00 oils exclusively back when your 2001 Golf was new?

And let me repeat, I do/did NOT have a PD engine (2004).

So I take it you want to totally ignore the VW owners manuals recommendation of ACEA A3 5w30.???

 

[Bob_Fout]

Does your owner's manual mention the half-liter/ top-off only qualifier that BTL's does?

 

[ruking]

Does your owner's manual mention the half-liter/ top-off only qualifier that BTL's does?

If you are asking me... no.

Basically IF you are using the VW 507.00 specification oil, they are VERY specific as to how much you should dilute that chemistry (with NON VW 507.00- 1/2 quart). My take is WHY DILUTE.... TOP with VW 507.00 !!!

The reference to the ACEA A3 (and further down still 5w30) is a SEPARATE (following) paragraph.

My 09 TDI sedan owners manual is gone for the day, so can someone quote the reference from the owners manual 2009 TDI sedan or JSW on pg 281 or so of the main owners manual?

 

[Bob_Fout]

We could have a case of multiple versions of owner's manuals here. Wouldn't be the first time VW revised the manual...

Are there any stickers under the hood / on the engine that state which spec oil to use?

 

[tditom]

...Problem is the 507.00 is 7.50 to 10 per liter so the issues are a little more picky picky.

To stay on the main point/principle, this is essentially what was done with Delvack 5w40 et al. back in 2003.

....

So I take it you want to totally ignore the owners manuals recommendation of ACEA A3 5w30.???

correct me if I'm wrong, but all VW507 is 5W30. I would assume that an oil that meets VW507 would also meet ACEA A3. So I'm not telling a CR owner to disregard what the manual says.

oil change interval is 10K miles. You have enough time to shop for the best deal. What is the difference in price between 507 and Delvac1? The best I've seen for D1 is $27/gallon. From what i've heard, Pepboys is selling the 507 Mobil1 product for the same as the other M1 oils (~$7/L). For that miniscule difference in price, why risk the warranty or potential long term issues?

no one has ever proven that 505.01 oils have caused a PD cam to fail, or that any other oil would save a PD cam from failing.

 

[ruking]

"no one has ever proven that 505.01 oils have caused a PD cam to fail, or that any other oil would save a PD cam from failing."

Well the other way to put it is why did the camshaft fail while using VW 505... approved oils? Indeed you agree with what I stated. I mean all of us know. It is just the secret VW talks around so as to limit to eliminate claims on their dime. So if any oil is ok why is a fix on a camshaft failure on VW 505 honored and a camshaft failure on a non 505. disallowed. STILL both are camshaft failures !!?? according to your quote .... Sadly a lot of folks literally got screwed if the cam issues were discovered after warranty or disapproved by VW.

Read Rod Bearing chronology for his examples..... So it would appear if one has the PD with no damage or excessive camshaft wear, literally knock on wood. "It could have been VW messed up and oem'ed you a good PD !!

 

[TDIMOFO]

I have looked many many times. I have never ever found 507 spec oil (M1 or otherwise) in a PEP BOYS.
Not for lack of trying but they just don't have it (yet or at my local shop).
TDIMOFO

correct me if I'm wrong, but all VW507 is 5W30. I would assume that an oil that meets VW507 would also meet ACEA A3. So I'm not telling a CR owner to disregard what the manual says.

oil change interval is 10K miles. You have enough time to shop for the best deal. What is the difference in price between 507 and Delvac1? The best I've seen for D1 is $27/gallon. From what i've heard, Pepboys is selling the 507 Mobil1 product for the same as the other M1 oils (~$7/L). For that miniscule difference in price, why risk the warranty or potential long term issues?

no one has ever proven that 505.01 oils have caused a PD cam to fail, or that any other oil would save a PD cam from failing.

 

[TDI2Fan]

Wow, this is an interesting read!

Not sure about the rest of you but my local VW dealer sells the LL03 for $6.74/Litre. My dealer also sells the filters for $9.00/Ea.

For the record:

My 2002 - I used Amsoil HDD 5W-30 at several short OCI in the beginning then 5K OCI up to 100K. At 100K, I switched the Elf CRV & 15K OCI. Car has around 170K on the clock. Has had a magnetic drain plug that picks-up some particles.

My 2004 (PD) - I used Castrol TXT 505.01 for the first short OCI. Then Motul Specific 505.01 for a couple more short OCIs then up to 20K. After that I switched to Elf CRV & 15K OCI. Car has around 80K on the clock. I just removed the VC and there is no sign of wear looking with a flashlight and mirror on ANY surface. Has had a magnetic drain plug that picks-up some particles.

My 2009 - I am using the LL03 until a better spec comes out. A few short OCIs and I will do the 10K OCI like VW recommends. By the time it is out of warranty, I am sure there will be a good slick oil available. Has had a magnetic drain plug that picks-up some particles.

 

[tditom]

TDIMOFO-
search on this site for PepBoys. Many of the stores in Cali started carrying it in the last month or so. Maybe your local manager can get on the bandwagon.

 

[CMB430]

I learned from my 08 F350 that trying to use different OCIs and oils from what the company calls for can lead to problems. Ford / International called for at least 5 types of oil! Depended on type of duty and climate. I tried them all...and had excessive aluminum in my oil, with excessive fuel dilution too per Blackstone. This was within 38K miles and 15 months.

In my TDI I am only going to use the recommended oil. The only change would be is if I moved to Alaska in the winter...would use 0W something. In my multiple gas engines and cars, I have run synthetic and have had great results. The wife's new Rabbit will be no different.

New diesels are much different than the old ones. We also do not tow 16,000 pounds worth of crap and trailers and homes. Too much weight (oil weight) causes drag (addressed in previous posts) that cause lower MPGs and more wear on the engine.

Starting at the 30K oil change, I am going to do OA via Blackstone. I will change the filter only, and top off the oil at the 10K mark. Unless Blackstone says otherwise, oil will be changed at 20K. That way not too many "washes" occur in the engine due to fresh oil's cleaning properties. If memory needs refreshing, look in my signature block.

One is free to do as they please, above is what I believe and practice

***To ensure no warranty issues, owners should follow owner's manual and VW OCI guidance***

 

[Audiisacheapvwpricedtoohi]

Schaeffers is complete garbage for our CR tdi's.
Had run Mobil TDT for the last 30k without a single issue then got the idea to switch to Schaeffers 5w40 OTR+ 6,042 miles is all it took to sludge the hell out of everything in the engine. Called Schaeffers to discuss what could possibly cause this and the response i got was that its not the correct oil for my application and thats why it sludged up. I told the guy I was sending a sample of the oil from when I changed it to Blackstone for analysis and he said that Blackstone has a terrible reputation and not to believe what they say. Stay away from Schaeffers regardless of who has great things to say about their oil, maybe it used to be good but something clearly has changed like does with so many things that were once the best and with an attitude like they have they dont deserve any business