faulty air mass meters

[victor]

My 2000 Jetta TDI is on it's third air mass meter. The 1st was replaced at 39,000mi, 2nd at 43,000 & the 3rd failed 200mi. later. Another TDI at our dealership has had similar problems. How wide spread is the problem? Have any other owners of 2000 & newer TDIs experienced this problem?

 

[valois]

Allot of them are, there is something feeble about the part, at first it seemed it was related to a chip or the filter, but this is only because so many have them. I assume your car is stock?

 

[JeffT]

A better quality VW MAF would suit me just fine!

 

[victor]

Our car is stock. VW reimbursed us 50% for the first MAF, but after the third one we filed for full reimbursement as the part is obviously defective. The last 2 were warrantied from the first replacement.
Is this just a problem with the 2000 & newer TDIs or does it go back to the previous series? Has VW admitted that there's a problem or do they expect us to keep buying these at $350 a pop?
What kind of mileage have other owners gotten from the replacements. Is 200mi. unusual?

 

[JeffT]

My MAF failed at 40,100 miles. No offer by VW to pay for any of it.

 

[victor]

VW won't offer to pay unless there's a recall which there definitely should be. You need to call VWNA customer service & open a financial assistance claim. 800-822-8987. How many miles do you have on the new MAF?

 

[Davin]

I've got to think that the MAF problems that people are having is due to some other problem in the electrical system. 4 MAFs in less than 45000 miles? The chance of 4 parts being bad is extremely low. And unless there is some sort of foreign material getting past the air filter, there must be some other reason that they keep failing.

AFAIK, the MAF works by controlling the current into a wire to keep it at a constant temperature. Someone correct me if I'm wrong... The more current required to keep constant temp, the more airflow there is. What if the system puts too much current into the wire and damages something? Has anyone tried measuring the resistance of the wire of a good sensor and of a bad sensor? Just a thought....

-davin

 

[mickey]

What we need are better quality aftermarket MAFs.

-mickey

 

[victor]

I suggested to the service dept. at my dealership that it seemed something was cooking the MAF units. There reply has been that there is no other trouble code when they do the diagnostic check. It's obvious that they have no clue unless the computer tells them what to change. They have conferred with VW & have been told to just change the MAF.
So far every MAF failure that I have heard about happened around the 35k-40k mark. Also, after the first one they fail much sooner. It would seem likely that something else has failed on all these cars that is affecting the lifespan of the MAF.

 

[fincoop]

It would seem logical that something is happening around 35k that could have an impact on the MAF. Collectively, let's think about what component(s) experience great change in the vehicle around the 30k mark.

 

[JeffT]

The VW emission's warranty specifically limits the MAF to 24,000 miles unless you are in Cal, VT, or Mass, then its 50,000 miles.

 

[BawlsyTDI]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JeffT:
My MAF failed at 40,100 miles. No offer by VW to pay for any of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's strange, at my dealership they paid for the MAF. All I paid for was a $14 air cleaner. Perhaps this was due to me becoming friendly with the woman at the service counter. She told me that she had spoken with the cashier and said "no charge".

EAR

 

[Bug]

Unless things have changed in the last few years, shouldn't the MAF be covered by the Federal Emission Control Warrantee? I know that I had airflow sensor fail in my '86 Jetta at 48,000 and almost paid $300 to have it replaced, until I read the fine print in the warrantee book - it was covered to 50k miles. Is all emissions related hardware still covered by this Fed requirement?

I guess I'll have to read my manual tonight...


Tom

 

[JeffT]

Yeah but BawlsyTDI, wasn't you car under warranty at the time??

At 40,500, my car is well past warranty.

Also, my dealer (Langan Glastonbury) said they were out of stock and it would take 2 weeks to get the part. I couldn't/wouldn't wait.

 

[mickey]

Mine was still peachy at 70K. Hopefully it will still work after 6+ months of gathering dust.

It seems obvious that something else is causing this problem unless the manufacturer made a whole slew of faulty MAFs. Most seem to be 2000 and 2001 cars, it seems, so I guess a bad production run is possible.

Aftermarket MAFs exist. I don't know whether they'd be electronically compatible or not.

-mickey

 

[JeffT]

Actually in another thread somewhere someone mentioned a product that fits on the Ford MAF that allows it to be used on other vehicles (no mention of applicability to VW) but I suppose if these things are all basically the same sort of thing then an adapter of some type could be fitted to, say the Ford MAF?

 

[Plutogogo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mickey:
Most seem to be 2000 and 2001 cars, it seems, so I guess a bad production run is possible.

-mickey<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have 99 NB TDI, MAF sensor failed around 36K. Confirmed with dealer today that it's not under the warranty. Dealer told me that they have many MAF failure on the gas engine, but very few on the TDI's..

 

[JeffT]

I tend to think its more an A3 vs A4 problem, not a MY issue.

 

[Dr. Dotgain]

Someone knowledable care to explain where the air that hits the MAF sensor comes from? Specifically, is there any flow from the exhaust to the intake?

Are these assumptions correct:
(1)
After exhaust gas pressure spins the turbo it continues to the catalytic, muffler and out the exhaust pipe?
(2)
Intake air goes thru the air filter, into the turbo, then thru the intercooler, past the MAF sensor then into the intake manifold?

Dr. Dotgain

 

[weedeater]

Popped the hood on mine yesterday (2001 Jetta). To my eyes, the MAF is just to the left of the air cleaner.

VW uses a thick film MAF, not a wire MAF. All the circuitry to control it is inside the unit. Basically, there are 4 wires connected: Battery, ground, Signal and signal ground.

VW wants to know about this failures, so call them. I think the NHTSA wants to know as well, if they see a trend they can force a recall. Especially since this impacts drivability and emissions.

 

[vegasdzl]

This might be a longshot but here's a link to some VW info on MAFs and silicone dressings of ANY kind and their use while the engine's running. Any of this apply?

MAFs and Silicone Damage

 

[JeffT]

Don't think so, vegasdzl, unless the oil used in the aftermarket air cleaners is silicone based.

 

[vegasdzl]

True, but VW was pretty adamant about dressings of any kind including tire and interior stuff fouling the sensor. Then again, three MAFs? Ouch.

[ April 29, 2001: Message edited by: vegasdzl ]

 

[mickey]

Pugs's MAF was crapped out, and Sprockets' is close behind. In fact, Pugs's Bora is running on Evil Beetle power right now until he can get a new one. We swapped in my MAF yesterday to see if that was causing his severe lack of power and boost. Sure enough, it was. He kept getting an error code, but it had nothing to do with the MAF. The code said, basically, that the manifold pressure wasn't as high as the ECU expected to see. It was some kind of "boost control" error, or something. Apparently, the ECU doesn't recognize the problem as being related to the MAF unless there is no signal at all. Pugs was still getting a signal from the MAF, but it was a lot weaker than it should have been.

-mickey

 

[vegasdzl]

This stuff worries me. Pooped out at 36k? Especially with VWoA's "care less" attitude. I envision leagues of TDI owners being out of warranty with shot MAFs and they'll have to pick up the tab.

Can I open a can of worms? Does the K&N sealer contain silicone? If it does it would be a prime suspect, wouldn't it? Sorry if you guys covered this before but I don't remember seeing any posts on it. Thanks.

 

[InkJet]

Ok, someone has to ask the silly question, so I will! What are the symtoms of a failing air mass meter?

My new Jetta has only 600 miles on it, so it sounds like it will be awhile before this should fail. But, I'll print out this discussion and show it to my husband for future reference. Hopefully, VW will be forced into a recall by then!

[ April 30, 2001: Message edited by: InkJet ]

 

[victor]

I don't believe the problem has anything to do with aftermarket parts on the TDIs. My car is bone stock & is on it's four MAF in 45,000 miles. Another owner at our dealership with a Beetle TDI is on her 3rd with similar mileage also stock.