FAQ? One side signal/marker lights stuck on, after locking/arming

[2TDIguy]

l c,

Can you advise where the CCM is located? My 2003 Jetta is doing this and I know someone with a parts car I can snag the module out of? Is there any security or imobilizer stuff on the CCM?

 

[l_c]

Comfort CCM, and security

2TDIGuy, there are a couple of panels under the dash assembly (in front of your knees) that should be removed,
for access; and then the rest of the removal involves screws. Be careful (gentle) with those harness connectors.
I didn't have time to take pictures of those steps, before. I don't know whether I can document this step,
until I get time in the future.

I don't think that the Comfort CCM should affect security/immobilizer. I don't have my Bentley book handy right now, but
if I recall correctly, I think that those critical settings are stored in other modules. I guess a good way to test this is for
you to simply disconnect all of the Comfort CCM harness connections; then try to drive your vehicle -- I assume that it
would be driveable. Post back here, if you figure out the answer to this. Sorry, that's all I know at this point. Larry

 

[2TDIguy]

Will it be obvious which module it is? Any chance you have a pic of the overall module?

 

[l_c]

How to access the CCM

2TDIGuy, sorry I don't have any pictures handy. I went out to try and take one (under the dashboard) now, but there's no way to see anything with all of the panels in place.

Basically if you're sitting in the driver's seat, then the module is ahead (forward) of your left knee.
It's the only one that has two large wiring harness connectors.

You do need to remove at least 2 panels, plus the "support bracket". You need some Torx bits for the screw/bolt heads, sorry I don't recall the sizes.

I didn't have time to research this for you too much, but ... on the 'vortex there's a post that talks about the CCM location, here -- http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1910787

And, that support bracket (it's a bit heavy), you can see (pictures of) it here (look for "Step #2") on this page that I came across via web search -- http://turbotimercompanion.com/vw/vwjetta.html

If/when you remove your CCM, be sure to use a little flat-blade screwdriver or something to disengage the locking tabs on those wiring harness connectors; so that you can gently nudge/ease the connectors to unplug (disengage) them ... gently (of course, you don't want to slam your knuckles on the surrounding metal either) or gradually pry them apart from their mates.

Another thing you could do first (in the interest of making darned sure of what the problem is) ... disonnect/remove the CCM, then remove the cover. Then reconnect it, but don't bolt it in, just let it hang down in front of your knees. Drive around for a few days like that, and then if the lights become stuck "on", reach down and give the relay a little tap with your finger ...see whether that makes the lights turn off. If so, then it's STICKING for sure. Mine was less likely to get stuck with the CCM open and hanging loose, since the relay tended to be cooler that way. But, it still failed at times (when the ambient temperature warmed up enough).

Hope this helps; Larry.

 

[northcentralportugal]

side/marker lights don't function:

Hi: My name is Chuck and I live in Portugal. I own a 2001 Bora and my side/marker lights don't light at all. I have read this subject with great interest. At first I thought that the lights may not even be required here in Europe, but the comments by the persons from the Netherlands and Finland answered that question.
So, the question remains, why don't my lights function at all?
I suppose the relay could have failed entirely, or the circuitry that drives it has a problem.
Has anyone else had this problem and the solution?
Thanks very much for your help. Chuck

2TDIGuy, sorry I don't have any pictures handy. I went out to try and take one (under the dashboard) now, but there's no way to see anything with all of the panels in place.

Basically if you're sitting in the driver's seat, then the module is ahead (forward) of your left knee.
It's the only one that has two large wiring harness connectors.

You do need to remove at least 2 panels, plus the "support bracket". You need some Torx bits for the screw/bolt heads, sorry I don't recall the sizes.

I didn't have time to research this for you too much, but ... on the 'vortex there's a post that talks about the CCM location, here -- http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1910787

And, that support bracket (it's a bit heavy), you can see (pictures of) it here (look for "Step #2") on this page that I came across via web search -- http://turbotimercompanion.com/vw/vwjetta.html

If/when you remove your CCM, be sure to use a little flat-blade screwdriver or something to disengage the locking tabs on those wiring harness connectors; so that you can gently nudge/ease the connectors to unplug (disengage) them ... gently (of course, you don't want to slam your knuckles on the surrounding metal either) or gradually pry them apart from their mates.

Another thing you could do first (in the interest of making darned sure of what the problem is) ... disonnect/remove the CCM, then remove the cover. Then reconnect it, but don't bolt it in, just let it hang down in front of your knees. Drive around for a few days like that, and then if the lights become stuck "on", reach down and give the relay a little tap with your finger ...see whether that makes the lights turn off. If so, then it's STICKING for sure. Mine was less likely to get stuck with the CCM open and hanging loose, since the relay tended to be cooler that way. But, it still failed at times (when the ambient temperature warmed up enough).

Hope this helps; Larry.

 

[l_c]

2001 Bora

Chuck, welcome to this discussion!

My vehicle is basically a 2002 Bora (wagon/variant), re-branded as Jetta for the USA market; made in Germany.

Before we assume that your Central CCM relays are at fault (meaning they fail to flash your signal/marker
lights, when you use your remote control to lock/unlock doors), I suggest that you verify whether the system
is programmed for that (flashing/blinking) function.

Can you clarify, did those lights ever flash, in all the time that you have owned the Bora?

I haven't experimented with this, but I believe that if you have a system interface (such as VAG-COM,
or another aftermarket code reader/programmer), you can check the settings in the Central Convenience Module.
Have a look at this web page -- http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/vwmkIV.html
and go down about halfway in the page, look for this section:
46 - Central Convenience: -- KWP1281

The relevant settings are stored in --
Channel 07 Unlock, turn signals flash
Channel 08 Lock, turn signals flash

If you can find a "code reader", and I don't know whether a generic/plain OBD-II reader would be
able to interrogate the Comfort and Convenience module ... we ought to find out whether those
settings exist in your vehicle, and whether they are set to flash the lights. If they are, then I might
agree that you want to find out whether the connections are present, in the Comfort CCM. Larry

 

[general lee]

can anyone help decipher this. ( i don't want my signal/marker lights to flash when I unlock or lock my doors with the remote)
I so don't understand this:

46 - Central Convenience: -- KWP1281Only on vehicles with power windows. VAG-COM fine. There are numerous options/ features that can be set.

Selective Unlocking:
[Select]
[46 - Cent. Conv.] (35 - Cent. Locking for manual window cars)
[Recode - 07]
Write down the existing coding for future reference.
Enter 5-digit code from below
[Do It!]
Look at the existing Soft. Coding. If you have selective unlocking (press the unlock button on the remote once to open the driver's door, twice to open all the doors) the last digit of your coding should be an even number. To make all doors unlock, add 1 to the coding.
So, if you have a 2-door 2002 GTI that is coded for selective unlocking (00064) add one to make it 00065 so that all doors unlock with one press of the unlock button.
Lock/Unlock Horn/Flash:
[Select]
[46 - Cent. Conv.] (35 - Cent. Locking for manual window cars)
[Adaptation - 10]
Channel (03..08)
Adaptation Value (1 = on, 0 = off)
[Save]

Channel 03 Auto Lock
Channel 04 Auto Unlock
Channel 05 Unlock, horn sounds
Channel 06 Lock, horn sounds
Channel 07 Unlock, turn signals flash
Channel 08 Lock, turn signals flash
​

 

[l_c]

Convenience coding

Yes. Do you have the required controller cable and software?

It's OBD-II based; but I'm not sure whether any cheaper (generic) hardware and software will support the same instructions.

The formatting is a lot clearer on the following web page -- http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/vwmkIV.html

The instructions are assuming that you're running the VCDS (formerly called "VAG-COM") application software (from Ross Technologies).

Selecting "46" means that you're telling the application (from the main menu) that you want to select a particular control module. 46 is "Central Convenience". Assuming that you can open that controller (from the main menu, i.e. the first screen), then you'll have an opportunity to click on certain functions within that module.

"35" is a somewhat similar group of functions that would control "Central Locking" if your vehicle doesn't have power-actuated (electric) windows.
One you've successfully opened the correct module, you'll see a button that offers a "Recode" function (07). That's where you need to manually figure out the correct 5-digit value (based on the current value that you can read from your vehicle, in VCDS/VAG-COM ... modified by the Ross-Tech codes listed in the instructions.

The first section shown there is just for Selective Lock/Unlock.
It's an arithmetic value ... you "add" the values based on the features that you want, if your numeric value didn't contain that value already.
This is the lowest-order bit (binary representation), therefore they tell you to either make the last digit "odd" (lowest bit is 1) or "even" (i.e. lowest bit is 0).

The second section shown there is just to determine whether your Alarm Horn will blip, and whether your signal/marker lights will flash, when you either lock/arm or unlock/disarm the system, using your key fob (remote control). In this section, they just tell you to enter either a "1" or "0" (for enable/disable) for each event action (feature) ... and they tell you which number labels/marks each event feature.

Hope that clears it up ... you do need their application software (assuming it's affordable); the big money is the controller cable itself (I think I paid something like 200 USD way back when), which comes with the licensing built-in. A lot of people use the same software with a cheaper, generic OBD-II controller cable -- however, I'm not sure whether these software features will work ("Unregistered") with those other cable types. Larry

 

[laptopdoctor]

Tyco relay

Hi people.

First of all I have to thanks Larry who help me to find out the cheapest way to buy this relay.
He told me to go to http://www.onlinecomponents.com/ but like he said on a this same thread they will charge you a minimum of $35 without shipping so I bought 3 of them + shipping for $54.
Even thought for me was much more expensive because while I was trying to diagnose this problem I flip a relay under the steering wheel and I burn my ECU, total cost almost $500 Towing+Used ECU+VW dealer to programmed it, I should've research in this wonderful forum first.


Only this weekend after almost 6 months finally I finish this project and the 3 left turning lights don't stay on anymore.

I have left 2 Tyco relays so if somebody out there are in need of one of them just let me know or even if you don’t fill comfortable doing the replacing I'm a laptop technician and I do repairs at the component level so for me the soldering job was something very easy and I can do that for you.
If you have any question just email me at luismlopes@hotmail.com

One more time Larry thank you very much.


Luis

 

[l_c]

I'm sorry to hear that your ECU got fried, Luis. I understand that a TDI is not really driveable if that happens. I didn't know that such a thing could happen, from working under the steering wheel.

If you were not so far away, I would ask you to fix some things around here. Regards, Larry

 

[l_c]

I no longer have Tyco relays to give out to other folks. Sorry.

They're still readily available (to purchase) online, if you're willing to pay about 15 USD each, go to this URL -- http://www.onlinecomponents.com/buy/PB-TYCO/V23072C1059A208/

Larry

 

[Billyjean249]

Relay V23072-C1059-A208

I had the same problem, and thanks to Larry I was able to fix it and save some cash. I had to buy two of the relays, so I have one for sale: In case you need a V23072-C1059-A208 relay, please PM me.
Thanks

 

[l_c]

lights flash option disable

Jeff Brom noted this to me, and I think there was a reference to it earlier (31-Jan-2009) above ... you should be able to disable the lights
flashing feature (on remote Lock or Unlock ... i.e. on Arm or Disarm),
if you have VAG-COM aka VCDS (software, controller cable, and PC).

So, if your relay is getting stuck, and you haven't been able to get a replacement, it should be possible to stop the problem, at least on an interim basis, by modifying these options.

From this web page -- http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/vwmkIV.html

46 - Central Convenience: -- KWP1281 
Only on vehicles with power windows. VAG-COM fine. There are numerous options/ features that can be set.

    ( ... )
    Lock/Unlock Horn/Flash:

     [Select]
    [46 - Cent. Conv.] (35 - Cent. Locking for manual window cars)
    [Adaptation - 10]
    Channel (03..08)
    Adaptation Value (1 = on, 0 = off)
    [Save]

    Channel 03 Auto Lock
    Channel 04 Auto Unlock
    Channel 05 Unlock, horn sounds
    Channel 06 Lock, horn sounds
    Channel 07 Unlock, turn signals flash
    Channel 08 Lock, turn signals flash

In particular, see where it says (46) Central Convenience,
and then function 10 / Adaptation,
and then look at channels 05 and 06.
So if you enable just the alarm horn beep, and not enabling
"turn signals flash", this should remove the problem. Right?
I haven't tried it, but if I had understood this at the time, I would have played with it for sure.
Larry C

 

[pedroYUL]

I am having the same issue only when it is really hot out (left side stays on). I was not looking forward to another "project" with my car but it seems unavoidable.

Anyone willing to part with the needed relay? Much appreciated! (please PM with asking price)

 

[pedroYUL]

No one?

 

[pedroYUL]

Pretty Please!

I need this relay. I asked a couple of local electronics's stores and they do not carry and are incapable of ordering. Shipping from the US stores are really high for such a small component.

 

[l_c]

Finding the correct relay in stock, for sale

Pedro, you will likely not ever be able to find the same automotive relay in an electronics store. Instead, you have to order the component from a distributor who might have some in their stock. I know it's expensive, I wish it wasn't that way. Automotive parts stores don't sell this type of component since it's not supposed to be a user-replaceable item; rather, this component is made for automotive-grade circuit board manufacturers to build the board. ( The board isn't designed to be user-serviceable. )

If folks are looking for this particular relay, I strongly recommend that you try and find an online distributor by visiting this URL, or something equivalent -- http://octopart.com/partsearch#search/requestData&q=V23072C1059A208&rangedfilters[avg_avail][min]=1&rangedfilters[avg_avail][max]=null

Hope that helps; Larry

 

[pedroYUL]

Thanks so much for the information Larry!

I do understand this is kind of a hack and I hope to be up to the task. I have a good small butane soldering iron which might need an extra small tip. Maybe I can organize a group buy, although a buyer in US will get a much better price on shipping I believe.

Now, I am also having some other issues that I am unsure are caused by the CCM. The child windows lock works or doesn't on its own will. Should I be looking for a complete CCM instead?

 

[l_c]

If the child safety lock on passenger windows is intermittent, one possibility I would first consider is that pushbutton switch ; if it's similar to my vehicle ( mine is a 2002 Wagon ), the control switch is located in the set of controls by the driver's left arm, on the arm rest.
And if it's indeed controlled by a similar kind of switch arrangement, then I wonder if the individual switch can be disconnected or unplugged. I've never looked at the schematic to locate this switch.
If it doesn't have its own plug, and is part of a combined harness, then it would require a little hacking to disconnect it ... you may have to extract a pin, something like that. I have not researched this on the Internet either. Larry

 

[pedroYUL]

Larry, I got the assembly out, opened it (6 screws), cleaned it and it is now working perfect.

Also, removed the offending relay and everything else works fine. For me this was the only solution while I find the relay since I do not have VCDS.

 

[l_c]

Pedro has highlighted a very important point about this issue : As an alternative to writing a different register value (via VAG-COM / VCDS / OBD-II ) to disable the lights blinking action :
If one does take out the Comfort / Convenience control module and is able to desolder or destroy the relay (without damaging the CCM board), it will serve to get rid of this problem too.

Thanks Pedro; Larry

 

[l_c]

Pin 13 in T15 ( 15-pin connector from the module ) is A5 : " Plus connection ( right turn signal ), in instrument panel wiring harness ".

Pin 14 in T15 ( 15-pin connector from the module ) is A6 : " Plus connection ( left turn signal ), in instrument panel wiring harness ".

Could the one ( Tyco Micro Relay K ) relay module connect to both outputs A5 and A6 ?
Or were there two of these relays on the CCM board ?
According to my post on 3-Apr-2008, I wrote that the single relay drives both wires.
But if that's true, then either both left and right lights would get stuck, or neither would.
Unless this is a dual-pole ( two contact ) relay, which I don't think it is.

EDIT: The circuit configuration is: twin make contact i.e. pins 5 and 7 are each normally open;
and when the relay is energized, they each are connected to pin 4, via individual contacts.
In the event that the relay sticks itself losed, I suppose one contact can remain open, one can remain closed; that must be what happened in my situation.
Diagram can be found here, datasheet.

The Tyco page for the relay is http://www.te.com/catalog/bin/TE.Connect?C=1&M=BYPN&TCPN=1-1393280-1&RQPN=V23086C1002A403
The product is Active ( not discontinued nor end-of-lifed )
They have a PDF datasheet link on that page ( see where it says " Catalog Pages/Data Sheets: " ).

If it was one relay having two circuits, that would be a " Double Micro Relay K " ( twin relay ) instead.

Maybe there are two of these relays on the CCM board, and I can't remember from 4-1/2 years ago. Larry

 

[l_c]

Try unplugging the 15-pin harness connector T15 as a workaround ?

** What about trying the following experiment, as a workaround ? :

If someone can get to that CCM module (under the dash) again,
then disconnect just the 15-pin harness connector from the module
not the 5 or 6 pin, or 23-pin harness connector.
This may cause several accessories ( sunroof, radio, rear hatch release ) to not work.

But I wonder if it'll disconnect the comfort CCM from all of these indicator lights, and get rid of that problem.
If the vehicle doesn't like this, refuses to start up or something, you can plug that connector back in and it should resume working normally.
Larry

 

[pedroYUL]

Larry, the car (at least mine) can perfectly run without the CCM. I disconnected it and the car ran fine just missing all comfort functions.

Regarding the relay, it is a dual contact relay. I did try to open it without destroying it but it wasn't pretty. At the end of the autopsy I saw the two contacts.

It is actually 2 contacts in a single circuit. The relay has 5 pins: 2 for the coil, one is the beginning of the switch, and the remaining 2 are activated at the same time when the switch closes.

 

[Mywomansmechanic]

My womans 03 tdi jetta keeps doing this. Is this likely what is also causing her drivers side rear turn signal to fry every month or so?

 

[pedroYUL]

Is this likely what is also causing her drivers side rear turn signal to fry every month or so?

Most likely. Specially if you lock the car and walk away or while walking away and don't notice the lights getting stuck.

 

[haak]

Hello, I have the same problem with my 04 jetta tdi, with my signal staying on when I turn on the alarm, also, my driver side tail light does not turn on (I replaced the bulb), and my side and signal lights on the driver side do not turn on when I turn on the headlights. Also, my trunk keyless and door switch don't work most of the time.
I am ready to have the comfort control module replaced but they cost $500 from the dealer. On ebay they have 1C0959799C H01 while the dealer said I need 1C0959799C 01H . Does anyone know if the last three letters/digits must be in the same order?
Your help is much appreciated.

 

[l_c]

Re: 04 jetta tdi / Comfort CCM

Haak, I have no idea about any of those revision or version and sub-revision suffixes.
I do believe that from model year 2002 thru 2004, the Golf/Jetta/Bora TDIs all could use Comfort CCM 1C0-959-799-C .
My first guess would be that the zero (0) in the suffix is not really significant, if you see another digit such as 1, 2, 3, ... 8, 9 following it.
I'm not so knowledgeable about VW/Audi part numbers; it seems like all of their digits and characters are significant, so I shouldn't try to advise about those final characters.

The most fortunate way would be if the eBay seller could take a very close / macro view of the identification sticker on the unit, and email or post that photo image ... which should show the entire number with version/revision information.

Down south here, just over the border in WA some dealers offer the CCM for between 250 and 300 USD. You might email or call Zeb at http://1stvwparts.com

On the general issue, I have wondered whether sometimes we should try, in this order: 1 ) Disable the lights flashing, through VAG alternative software; 2 ) Otherwise, remove the failed relay
But in your case, I wonder if the fault is a little more serious, for example a wiring harness and/or connector issue ... or like you were thinking, the Comfort CCM is having a more significant problem in itself.

Larry

 

[1heavyfoot]

Source for relay V23072-C1059-A208

I just purchased relay V23072-C1059-A208 from a seller on ebay. The listing indicates they have 1900 of them. No minimum quantity and I ended up paying $21.50 shipped after I made an offer. Part is coming out of Silverton, OR and I also found an electronics supplier from that same city via google searches so I suspect the same outfit.

Here's the ebay listing - http://www.ebay.com/itm/111204129373

Thanks for putting together this thread!

 

[tdidieselbobny]

Know it's kinda old thread,but when I picked up my son's A4 from bodyshop after they reassembled front end,when I turned headlight switch on,the left turn signal indicator stayed on,and the front and rear signal lights were bright-when I turned switch off,they worked fine. Closer to home I flipped the 4 ways on(with headlights on)-they worked,but the cluster lights flashed on and off. Got home and checked bulbs-all ok.Then I remembered the body shop said the insulation fell off of wires-didn't know what he meant till I got headlight off(drivers side)-I saw copper wire from headlight to turn signal(inside the housing)-the insulation basically flaked off(it was a southern car it's whole life) -so I wrapped all the wires with electrical tape,and what I couldn't wrap I put the liquid electrical tape on it.The passenger side headlight insulation on wires were just starting to crack,so I dabbed the liquid tape on the bare spots.I need to get different headlights anyway,so I'll know to check that harness on any used headlights I find. I put everything back together,and everything works as it should.So if you have wonky turn signals,check the harness wiring inside the headlight housing....