Failing injection pump?

[Middlemancrisis]

The golden question....

I asked this question in another similar thread, but got no real answer.

Where does one find a new pressure case valve. If you go back to page 1 and look at the difference between the new valve and the old....not only is the actual valve pushed up but the rubber seals are worn flat on the upper and lower part. So having said that, either where can one get the new valve as a whole or just the new seals?

 

[97BlackTD]

Noisey inj pump, high revs at start?

Can someone give me an idea why my 98 tdi will rev high when started hot? If started below 70C or 160f the engine starts normally. My injection pump has been rattling for over a year and getting worse. because of the noise I replaced 8 lifters, rebuilt injectors and because of the recent loss in power I've cleaned out the clogged up intake manifold. So now the noise has been narrowed down to the pump and I thnk the pressure is too low to get enough fuel for normal accelleration.
Do you think the high rev when hot is also related to the weak injection pump?

 

[TDIJetta99]

Check the coolant temp reading with vag-com... If it thinks the engine is cold when it's not it will rev like that.. It's worth a shot..

 

[TDIJetta99]

I asked this question in another similar thread, but got no real answer.

Where does one find a new pressure case valve. If you go back to page 1 and look at the difference between the new valve and the old....not only is the actual valve pushed up but the rubber seals are worn flat on the upper and lower part. So having said that, either where can one get the new valve as a whole or just the new seals?

I have no idea where to get a new valve... I've looked around as well... The o-rings you can usually pick up at any parts store.. I would drive there, pull the valve out in the parking lot and match up some o-rings...

 

[alhutch]

I asked this question in another similar thread, but got no real answer.

Where does one find a new pressure case valve. If you go back to page 1 and look at the difference between the new valve and the old....not only is the actual valve pushed up but the rubber seals are worn flat on the upper and lower part. So having said that, either where can one get the new valve as a whole or just the new seals?

I have the Bosch part numbers for those o-rings at home. I'll try and remember to post them up tonight. I got them from DFIS.

 

[knicelyr]

Simply pull out the case relief valve, next to the fuel inlet. It is the strange piece with 10mm flats. ...

Mine was apart looked just like the one in the first picutre... We'll see if that fixes my issue or not.
THANKS JEFF!!!!

 

[whitedog]

Just a little FYI. That valve shown above is not a case pressure relief valve. In fact when the retainer falls out, your case pressure won't change. I talked with Kyle, the rebuild guru at DFIS and my conversation is outlined HERE. After talking with Kyle, I aquired the needed tools and tested case pressure with a "failed" Transfer pump relief and with a good Transfer pump relief and there is not enough difference to see in normal, stock driveing.

With performance mods, it may have an impact, but I haven't tested that.

Basically, the case pressure is not controlled by that valve, but it is controlled by the fitting coming out of the pump where the return line attaches.

 

[whitedog]

8X1MM is the thread for tht bolt on the side of the pump. You should see about 8 bar there at low idle. If you don't see that, add in that it isn't sucking fuel and you have a pump that needs rebuilt.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Issue has gone from bad to horrible lately. At light load, AGAIN AROUND 2,000revs, i have blue smoke, and car seems to "stumble", like its misfiring if it were a gasser (like a 1.8t with a bad coilpack).
Couple of things:
-Problem started to get REAL bad monday(3.1.09), after a fillup
-Like real bad, lots of blue smoke, running like crap
-Changed fuel filter, filled filter with PowerService supplement (white bottle) Now, fuel in old filter had the consistancy of coffe with alot of half and half in it, bit of water drained out the bottom too.
-Ran fine for a bit, my guess is til the supplement was fully ingested outta the filter.
-Stopped at D&W Diesel, talked to fellow there, suggested running stanadyne in tank, bought said stanadyne, put correct amount in tank.
-Drove back home, issue was better, not perfect.
-Yesterday, back to square one, running like garbage, blue smoke @ or around 2000revs, part throttle/light load conditions.
-This morning, same as above^
-:crystalball: i can see into the future! this afternoon when leave work i will have the same problem.

Now, i have had this issue for years now (see post #1 in this thread). In the summer, with a diesel supplement added at every other fill up or so, sometimes not even at all, the car runs absolutely fine.
Could i just have junk fuel? I filled up at a different station not too long ago while in the Adirondack region, had no issues at all, but once back home, issue came back. I'm not ruling out a failboat injection pump, but the fuel seems to be a contributing factor.
Also, we have had single digit temps this week here in lovely westren new york, issue is certainly more exagerated with colder temps.

Any help would be great. I'm about ready to trade her in on a Prius.

 

[l_c]

LowlyOilBurner, I don't recall if you've tried this -- when it runs like crap, blue smoke etc. have you tried starting up with the Coolant Temperature Sensor harness disconnected? (To force the maximum preglow period)
Larry

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

bump! Help!

 

[woofie2]

blue smoke is unburnt oil or fuel,
At 2000 RPMs sounds like something is out of wack when the engine starts making boost.

What Boost PSI's are you running?
Does it do the same with the MAF unplugged?
VNT mechanism sticking?

-Changed fuel filter, filled filter with PowerService supplement (white bottle) Now, fuel in old filter had the consistancy of coffee with alot of half and half in it, bit of water drained out the bottom too.

Although that sounds like an Algae or microbe problem.
see picture of the fuel here-
http://dieselfueldoctor.com/solutions_explained.html
I would suggest running a biocide through the car.

 

[BobnOH]

have you looked inside the fuel tank?

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Well, it has warmed up recently, and the issue has improved. Still, however it will act up untill the motor warms up, and still a ton of blue smoke upon start up, once warm, goes away. It seems after the car sits for a while (a few hours) and then is started, the issue comes back until warmed up, then it dirves fine. Another thing, when its "bucking" and studdering, blowing blue smoke, boost is sky rocketing (30psi!), but once the car warms up, everything is fine. Again, this happens @ or around 2,000rpms??? Is 2,000rpms a magical number where something important happens? I did look into the tank, everything looked fine. I switched to another gas station for fuel, so we will see what happens?

Could this be a fuel temp sensor? It still have to data log this thing (channel's 1,3,and 11, fuel,boost,maf).

Any idea, again would be a great help, before i go and spend 1,100bucks on am injection pump.

 

[JASONP]

blue smoke is unburnt oil or fuel,
At 2000 RPMs sounds like something is out of wack when the engine starts making boost.

What Boost PSI's are you running?
Does it do the same with the MAF unplugged?
VNT mechanism sticking?


Although that sounds like an Algae or microbe problem.
see picture of the fuel here-
http://dieselfueldoctor.com/solutions_explained.html
I would suggest running a biocide through the car.

Blue smoke-OIL
Black smoke-FUEL

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

i thought blue smoke= something up with injection timing?

 

[l_c]

Is the inj.#3 needle lift sensing already ruled out?
Larry

 

[woofie2]

Blue smoke-OIL
Black smoke-FUEL

fuel = oil

excess unburnt atomized fuel would be black smoke, unatomized fuel would be blue.

If the car is not leaking oil, it may be time for new injector nozzles,

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Car doesn't leak/ burn any oil. I change the oil twice a year ( amsoil, every 10k), and I check the oil level every now and again, it's never been down where I've had to add like a quart or anything. I'm sure the intercooler has oil in it, but that seems to be kinda normal from what I've been reading. As far as the injectors being bad, I hope, it will gimme an excuse to get rid of these Race520's and get some pp520's! This is just real strange, it only seems to act up after the car had sat for a little. Last night, went out to dinner(car was off for maybe an hour and a half), started it up, spit out some blue smoke, and did the bucking/studdering bit, then cleared up. I can't say how many times I've had to pull off to the side of the road, of been stuck in an intersection with this thing whezzing and acting up. **** is getting old.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

How about bent rods, cracked piston? I fear this maybe the issue, I took it to the dealer, they could not figure anything out. They test drove it, and managed to snap the shaft on my vnt17. Ordered a new one (thanks KermaTDI), so now I'm over a grand into this, with a part that prolly isn't contributing to my issue! Awesome!

 

[woofie2]

They test drove it, and managed to snap the shaft on my vnt17.

That sounds like a local SCCA racer who took his SRT to the dealer for an oil change. His head unit logged g-forces as high or higher than he usually sees Solo racing. someone at the stealer had a little fun in the car.

The coffee looking fuel in the fuel filter still makes me think you have something biological going on in your fuel system.

but if the turbo doesn't fix it, it might be time to pull the head.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Well, car does run alot better with the new turbo. No more rediculous boost spikes, no hesitating/bucking action. Still, good amount of blue smoke upon start up, and a little when taking off from a stop.

What I did notice:
When tooling around in say 3rd gear, and accelerate up to around 2,500to 2,900k, then have it drop down to 2200k, and hold it at 2200k, very good amount of blue smoke, hit the go pedal, goes away. This is a light load situation where the blue smoke is pumping out at 2200k. I'm having a compression test done at the dealer on monday, and doing some data logging there too (boost, MAF, fuel).

 

[TDIJetta99]

mine will do that when I'm sitting in neutral and hold the revs at 2200.. it'll just lay out a steady cloud of blue... when the engine is cold or not fully warmed up it's a lot worse.. I'll drive mine till it breaks, then I'll know exactly what the problem was..

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Huh, any idea what it could be?

 

[TDIJetta99]

haha nope.. It's been doing it for a while, I've changed everything but the engine itself for other reasons, turbo because it blew apart, IP to upgrade, injectors to upgrade again, and that aspect has remained the same.. I think it got a little worse recently when I put the PP502's in, but I'm not sure.. Now that I think about it, it started getting really noticable after the turbo went. I'm going to have the head off in the near future (another upgrade), so I'll measure the piston protrusion to see if the rods are straight.. If everything looks good then I don't care anymore.. I'll drive it till it breaks..

 

[woofie2]

I'll drive it till it breaks..

Then use that as an opportunity to upgrade something, right?

 

[TDIJetta99]

Then use that as an opportunity to upgrade something, right?

Absolutely! However I don't really have much else to upgrade.. Better rods/pistons are about all that's left, that and a bigger camshaft..

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

I'm prolly going back to near stock power levels. I have a 500awhp UrS4 to roll around in if I wanna go fast. I just want a reliable daily driver to use for that purpose and that purpose solely. I modded this thing, and have had enough. Awd is where it's at.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Had a compression test done, all is perfectly within spec. Cylinder#2 was a little lower than the rest, but still within allowable limits. I think I'm going to swap out the nozzles, and software. The drivablilty had improved greatly after the new turbo went in, no more getting stuck in intersections with this thing acting up

 

[TornadoRed]

LOB: as you approach the 4th anniversary of the start of this problem -- or at least the 4th anniversary of the date when you first posted about it -- perhaps it might be useful to summarize what has been done, what worked and what didn't, and which experts have actually looked under the hood. Clearly the long-distance advice you've received has not been adequate.

Also, have you ever driven any other TDIs? Can you compare the performance of your TDI with one which is problem-free?