Failing injection pump?

[DPM]

If there's white smoke then it *is* getting fuel, and either the timing is wrong, your compression is low, or the glowplugs are required and not being activated (which goes back to low compression IMHO).
Recheck pump and cam timing...

 

[jollyGreenGiant]

Unless they are totally plugged up, the fuel delivery valves won't cause a no-start with everything else good. White smoke does indicate fuel just not at the right time, have someone help you crank it while you move the pump through it's range is my suggestion.

 

[Warthog]

Glow plug should not be required as outside temp is normally over 60F when I'm working on the engine. I've even disconnected the temp sender to force longer glow time but that did not make a dif.
JGG...YES, that does seem to indicate the timing is not right, but what's so strange is for the number of times I've set and reset (and checked the tining!) the timing, it ought to have hit on something by now.
If all the "tools" line up after the engine has been cranked and the pump is in the "center" of the adjustment range, the timing is supposed to be in the running window. It might not run GOOD, but it ought to run; that's why I suspect some OTHER parallel fault.
This reg. valve sounds like a likely suspect. I'll check it and report back. It sounds like a lot of them are not in the expected configuration, from reading this thread.

 

[DPM]

Timing during cranking is set by pump position, not hydraulic pressure.

 

[jollyGreenGiant]

Timing during cranking is set by pump position, not hydraulic pressure.

Agreed, the collar is not the problem, it might hinder the HP cylinder filling if case pressure is low but if you're getting fuel at the injector then it is most likely not an issue.

Might want to play with the QA adjustment too. Better to have an engine that almost runs away than one that won't start...

 

[Warthog]

Since this is the pump that came from a running engine I'm reluctant to mess with the QA just yet.
(The reason I have this pump is the "running engine" is being converted to MECHANICAL fuel injection [with a 12mm head, no less!] so it was readily available)
That being said and to continue the story, MY regulator valve was all in order. I guess that's the good news and the bad news, again. I really wish I'd found it in pieces...that would have been something to FIX!
I'll throw some more observations into the pot of facts:
starter spins the engine smartly at over 500 rpm, according to the tach.
I am DILIGENT to NOT touch the accelerator pedal while cranking! VAGCOM is rude if I do that!
I try not to crank for long periods, to avoid overheating the starter.
I've pulled fuel thru the pump using the mityvac and the return line, over and over.
I'm getting fuel at the injectors.

New Question:
Is there any thing I need to check on the needle lift sensor? (Injector #3, G-80) I thought it did not influence anything at idle, but maybe that's not so.

 

[DPM]

One thing that *might* be worth a shot. If you are 110% that all the timing is correct, either do a compression test, or try tow-starting the car/ bumping it down a steep hill. I just wonder whether the tappets have bled down enough that you're not getting good valve lift? It's not unknown for diesels that won't start after a rebuild to start on the tow...

 

[Warthog]

DPM, the engine has been cranked so many times and for so long that the oil pressure light does not stay on while I'm cranking it now. Wouldn't that sort of suggest the tappets have adequate oil (by now?.)?
It was running around November 24 or 25, 2006...I forgot the last time I drove it.

 

[woofie2]

WartHog-
Did you leave the hard injection lines loose and try cranking the engine to see if they spit a little diesel before tightening them all the way up?
if there is air in the hard lines, the injectors will not fire and it takes the IP quite a bit to get air pressure up to the level that they will fire.

 

[DuluthRooster]

See my thread about my case pressure relief valve.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=179625

Why would mine pop apart every other day. I wish I could glue it together!

 

[TDIJetta99]

See my thread about my case pressure relief valve.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=179625

Why would mine pop apart every other day. I wish I could glue it together!

Mine used to come apart very often... I ended up putting it back together and grabbed the welder and put a little spot in 3 places around where the sleeve goes in.. Hasn't come apart since... I check it every few weeks or so...

 

[mojogoes]

I have been having some problems with starting the car for a couple of reasons lately.....first it wasn't coming up to temps so a new cts was fit and everything was fine......although i've always put this down to having lower cr (but this may not be the case) and have had white smoke on start up and a ticking fuel pump since i've had the car back.

It's ran and started for a couple of days with the new cts but then 6 days ago the gp light instead of coming on going out then going on again, just stayed on for a split second and the motor would not start..........the day after we managed to start it after repeatedly cycling the ignition/gp.....but before it did it was churning out smelly white smoke , i thought it was another bad cts after unplugging the cts but the motor wouldn't kick over at all and the gp light wouldn't stay on for more than a split second even with another new cts.....so it can't be that.

I've also been told from a different diesel shop today that "if you tap the case relief valve with in the opening/hole at the top" it will up the low end pressure some.......(is this right or bs) After having what seemed a great re-mapping done i feel i've taken a couple of steps backwards......

Q1.....would having a bad fuel temp sensor have this affect!
Q2.....Would anyone think as i do that the static timing may be out / well out.!
Q3.....Would anyone think with the clicking i've had that the IP could be faulty/bad.
Like some people before its driving me crazy.

 

[Sootman]

Yes, to all of the above. After doing the rebuild on my engine this winter I had exactly the same issues. Lots of white smelly smoke, the static timing was off, I replaced the coolant temp sensor, and had to have the IP rebuilt. Actually the IP was rebuilt before the engine rebuild, but it had gone bad. On top of that I had to replace the starter after all the attempts at getting the car started.
Sounds like you've taken the first logical step with the CTS. Have you tested you glow plugs? I had only one of the four that worked so they got replaced too. Because I run a G60 flywheel the timing marks were incorrect and I had to locate TDC using the cam position tool combined with a piece of thin wire down the #1 glow plug hole to be sure the piston was all the way up. I still have to make a better mark on the flywheel and will do so when I get a Peliquin installed.
This kind of thing can make you crazy. Good luck.

 

[mojogoes]

Yes...the gp have just been changed........what did they say had gone on your ip Sootman!

 

[mojogoes]

Also Sootman if i had a dead fuel temp sensor would this make starting hard etc would i not get full gp time if it were dead/bad.........

 

[Sootman]

Mojogoes,
That's a good question, I don't know. I do know that I have an unopened fuel temp sensor in a box in my basement that I'll ship to you if you want for the cost of shipping; although you can probably buy one locally for less. When I disconnected the coolant temp sensor causing the glow plugs to light up for a full 20 seconds the car started immediately.

Steve

 

[mojogoes]

What would have answered it would have been to install a new fts to see if you were to get the correct gp time from fitting the new fts.....doing what you did which i also did my engine didn't fire up.
I know the fts's course irratic drivability problems which i did have just before all this started which was a short time after the last re-map......i also had to re-solder one of the wires on the ip at the first main connector.....which gave me a fault code (fuel temp sensor open) or something like that ....soldered it up and the fault went away after clearing it.
The question a'm asking here is has any one been able to run with a dead fts which the answer is yes...you get hesitation and bad running/fuel mileage etc....but would one course an engine not to fire up or would the fact that ive also got a retarded timing issue compounding the situation so that the pump/ecu/timing is so far off with these couple of issues...make it not able to start. .

 

[mojogoes]

Update is.............. this morning i changed the fuel filter and the heater valve that sits on top of the filter.......when i took the valve off and blow into it it did have a restriction in there which flow out.

It still doesn't cycle the gp as it should so i unplugged the cts connection and after one long turn of the key to prime the pump , 3 turns after it started right up.......it didn't seem to blow out half the white smoke it did b4 but its still seems very smokey at idle.

Would any one say that i must have an electrical fault on the gp harhess some where or is it another quality faulty GS&F car part.

 

[VW Petrolero]

ttt

update this Pump problem

 

[fase2000TDI]

if you need a pump.. I have one

 

[Richard55]

Another, "I'm having the same problem", I have 2000 NB, stumbling, no power over 2200 rpms, lots of white smoke. I checked the low preasure valve and it was out. I hammered it back in and it lost the prime, of course, do I need to rebuild the pump or what. Is it time to get an 11 mm pump and forget the whole thing. haha
Fase2000tdi, is your pump stock?

 

[fase2000TDI]

Another, "I'm having the same problem", I have 2000 NB, stumbling, no power over 2200 rpms, lots of white smoke. I checked the low preasure valve and it was out. I hammered it back in and it lost the prime, of course, do I need to rebuild the pump or what. Is it time to get an 11 mm pump and forget the whole thing. haha
Fase2000tdi, is your pump stock?

The pump I have for sale is a 10MM pump stock to the manual transmission TDI's. The pump is new. I paid $700 w/ shipping included. I want to get the same.

401-919-3556

 

[clintontull]

does the 11mm pump have the same problem with the valve coming apart??

 

[TornadoRed]

The postings early in this thread by Drivbiwire (Pete), jsrmonster (Jeff), and LandytG (Greg) seem quite helpful. Too bad this thread drifted so far afield.

Those who found this thread because they have an injection pump problem should read those early posts and then start their own thread.

 

[doodad]

Yet another bad relief valve.

Thnaks for the advice!!

But didn't fix my problem... I think I have a bad o-ring... Pump will not hold vacuum when isolated.

 

[doodad]

Contact:

Diesel Fuel Injection Service
1700 SE Grand Ave.
Portland, OR 97214

Service Mngr. Rod Hardison
(800) 547-8454
(503) 235-1947
(503) 239-0603 fax

This is the wrong address... My IP just got returned to me. Their new address is:

Diesel Fuel Injection Service
8922 NE Vancouver Way
Portland, OR 97211

Phone: (503) 235-1947
Fax: (503) 459-4711

Email: mark@d-f-i-s.com

 

[mjbach]

My 99.5 Golf with 200,000 miles died when I was driving it. Lots of air in the fuel lines.

My husband and his mechanic friends fooled around with all the obvious things like fuel filter, o rings, tank pump (mine didn't have one after waiting a week for it to come), filter tee, tank valve, air leaks in lines, lines, another fuel filter--NONE OF THAT STUFF fixed the problem.

Then we saw this posting with the picture of the pressure control valve. When we took that part out of the pump, it fell apart. Husband put it back together but it kept coming apart.

My husband was able to buy a new one for around $50. So far, 1000plus miles later, it's working great with no air bubbbles in the fuel lines. I am so glad to have the car running again.

He got the part through Diesel and Import Auto Truck Service, 9102 Isanti Street NE, Blaine, MN 55449, Telephone 763-780-2570.

Hope this helps someone.

 

[TDIJetta99]

That's exactly what mine was doing.... I fixed mine by putting a little spot of weld there to hold that retaining piece in the bottom of the valve.. So far so good 45k later... I don't want to think about how many pumps were replaced due to that valve coming apart...

 

[mjbach]

Yes I had read about those folks able to spot weld it. I tried to get hubby to do that to save some money. He insisted that neither he nor his friend with the welder had enough skill to spot weld that part.

Hopefully the new part will stay together for another 200,000 miles.

 

[newbeetleman]

Can someone explain or have pics of which one that needs hammer back in or can someone explain the "HOW TO" for me?

My car threw this code yesterday but I have not really noticed any issues with how it is running.. It is actually running fairly normal.

I have 234,000 miles.