Fact/fiction about these Passat's.....

[jehowe]

New 2013 Passat TDI SE DSG owner, absolutely love the car so far. Not new to VW (2000 Passat GLS), but first TDI and enjoying the learning curve.
Yesterday I had a casual conversation with someone who claims to know these cars (co-owned a shop specializing in imports), and was very critical with this generation Passat that had me questioning my purchase!
His list of complaints, that I remember:

1) high turbo failure rate- odds are the turbo will fail sooner than later
2) don't expect anything near 50mpg with a DSG
3) buggy electrical system that's prone to kick out a lot of error conditions and failures
4) the engine isn't as good as some of their prior diesel engines
5) lots of general assembly (build QC) issues, especially the 2012 model year
6) and the general sportiness and handling isn't the same as the older Passats

I might be a little spooked since I had the CEL turn on the third day I had it, resulting in replacement of the nox sensor and coolant fan- which was covered by the 24mo/24k warranty that came with the sale.

But.... is this guy full of hot air, can anyone reassure me here?

 

[Ace Deprave]

New 2013 Passat TDI SE DSG owner, absolutely love the car so far. Not new to VW (2000 Passat GLS), but first TDI and enjoying the learning curve.
Yesterday I had a casual conversation with someone who claims to know these cars (co-owned a shop specializing in imports), and was very critical with this generation Passat that had me questioning my purchase!
His list of complaints, that I remember:

1) high turbo failure rate- odds are the turbo will fail sooner than later
2) don't expect anything near 50mpg with a DSG
3) buggy electrical system that's prone to kick out a lot of error conditions and failures
4) the engine isn't as good as some of their prior diesel engines
5) lots of general assembly (build QC) issues, especially the 2012 model year
6) and the general sportiness and handling isn't the same as the older Passats

I might be a little spooked since I had the CEL turn on the third day I had it, resulting in replacement of the nox sensor and coolant fan- which was covered by the 24mo/24k warranty that came with the sale.

But.... is this guy full of hot air, can anyone reassure me here?

In the 3 years, 63,000 miles I had mine, I didn't have any issues. In strictly highway driving, my best MPG was 46, and I normally averaged 43 or 44. See my fuelly sig for details.

I can't speak about the sportiness and handling of previous Passats, but I didn't find it handled badly for a car of its size.

 

[yatzee]

1) yes
2) it's possible, but only at lower speeds than usual
3) buggy electrical system? That's specific
4) nice and general again... It's more complicated, but it's also got more power and similar economy
5) really?
6) that is true - it's more of a family car as opposed to a sports car

If you want bulletproof reliable, go buy a Honda or a Toyota

 

[hudsonian]

You know what opinions are like.... everyone has one.
I am 10,000 miles into my 2013 Passat and I love it... I don't want to talk too soon but I am problem free so far.
I am from the UK, these NMS Passats don’t have the build quality of the European ones, but they have a lot of other good stuff... like interior space and they don’t come with a big $$$ tag.
The 2012 and 2013 turbo's got an updated warrantee, I can’t remember exactly but I think it is 100,000 miles or 10 years, I have the VW letter in my car... so no panic there.
On a long run in my DSG I may get upper 40's in MPG, much better than any gas car so be happy.
No electrical problems other than a slow GPS system.
If you are happy with the car just keep calm and carry on. Let him have his comments and just maintain it right....
Name a type of car out there that does not have issues... I can give you a long list on my old 2009 Ford Flex.....
These forums have lots of people coming in to discuss problems to find a solution so they may appear problematic, but there are way more people out there driving on from service to service... they don’t tend to look for places like this to say how happy they are ;-)

 

[oilhammer]

New 2013 Passat TDI SE DSG owner, absolutely love the car so far. Not new to VW (2000 Passat GLS), but first TDI and enjoying the learning curve.
Yesterday I had a casual conversation with someone who claims to know these cars (co-owned a shop specializing in imports), and was very critical with this generation Passat that had me questioning my purchase!
His list of complaints, that I remember:

1) high turbo failure rate- odds are the turbo will fail sooner than later very true, so true that Volkswagen had to extend the warranty
2) don't expect anything near 50mpg with a DSG subjective, but it was never expected to get 50 MPG anyways. It will get "very good" from a car that size
3) buggy electrical system that's prone to kick out a lot of error conditions and failures sounds like a Volkswagen to me
4) the engine isn't as good as some of their prior diesel engines perhaps not as durable or low cost, but it also performs better and is much cleaner and more refined
5) lots of general assembly (build QC) issues, especially the 2012 model year Yes, it is an "American" Volkswagen. It also costs a lot less.
6) and the general sportiness and handling isn't the same as the older Passats again, an American car, with a lower price tag, lower curb weight, and less "substance", very much reminds me of an Impala in some respects, but I still wouldn't call it a bad car.

I might be a little spooked since I had the CEL turn on the third day I had it, resulting in replacement of the nox sensor and coolant fan- which was covered by the 24mo/24k warranty that came with the sale.

But.... is this guy full of hot air, can anyone reassure me here?

bold is mine. I think your friend isn't without merit in his comments. However, I would not let it worry you too much. Time will tell, and I really doubt the NMS Passat (gas OR diesel), will be as solid and nice to drive after a decade and a couple hundred thousand miles as the B5s are. But, again, they cost a LOT less, and they are larger, so.... I would say they represent a better value for the American consumer, which was the intention. And to that end, I think they did a good job. If you want something fancier, the Audi dealer has what you want. However, if you want a diesel, you'll have to step up to the A6, and you'll spend TWICE the money.

 

[jehowe]

Thanks for the quick replies, and the mostly reassurances.... #2 & 6 I don't really care about. I would have picked up a manual if mileage was of absolute importance, and I knew what I was getting as far as handling goes (I drove this one before the purchase and owned a 2000 Passat- the difference was noticed).

#1, the turbo issues, I do care about. The purchase was through a VW dealer, the car was certified and has the 24mo/24k warranty. I wasn't told about the 100k warranty extension for the turbo. Is this something that is transferred to second owners?

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, generally the extension applies to whomever owns the car. And the couple that I did, before the extension took place, the owners were able to get a reimbursement from Volkswagen.

Some of the NMS guys have some good turbo-friendly guidelines for driving styles that may help prolong the life.

 

[jehowe]

Yes, generally the extension applies to whomever owns the car....

Thank you for confirming that!

I'm going to search for ways to baby a Passat turbo, but please share if you have a link in mind. Was the turbo redesigned (2014), and are replacements from here on out less prone to fail?

My wife and I put 245k miles on our previous Passat with no turbo issues at all. But we paid in other ways. It had the infamous 1.8T 'sludge-maker' engine (2000 Passat) that plagued the A4's as well. Costing us one expensive oil pump replacement, and VW another.

I'd like to think we can keep this one as long.

 

[PassatSE4me]

Don't baby the car for the sake of the turbo, just try to avoid interrupting regens. Babying or brutalizing, there are failures either way.

 

[jehowe]

Don't baby the car for the sake of the turbo, just try to avoid interrupting regens....

Ironically, after frantically googling why the fan was still running after turning off the engine, I interrupted a regen about six hours ago.....

I really wish the dealer had explained this!

 

[IXLR8]

Drive more, worry less... and make sure the car has had the ECU reprogrammed to help with the turbo issues.

 

[jehowe]

Drive more, worry less... and make sure the car has had the ECU reprogrammed to help with the turbo issues.

Thanks! Can the ECU programming be checked and/or reprogrammed via VCDS- I have one (Ross-Tech).

 

[tdiatlast]

^^^No. It's a VWoA software update that needs to be done by a VW dealer.

 

[compu_85]

Lifetime average MPG on our '12 is 41.2. Not bad considering a lot of that is mixed driving. I got 46 going quickly from Michigan to Virginia last week.

-J

 

[jrm]

1) Fact even my 12v iron horse Cummins will someday eat a turbo
2) Fiction both me and PSD get a solid 50MPG see attached Video on last long road trip- that was with a tail wind and after a lot of hyper mileing
3) Fiction, unless you buy a flood salvage Passat- compared to my dodge, the VW is amazingly perfect
4) Fiction, the CKRA is great, visit Malone to make it even better
5) Fiction
6) Fact, the B6 is sportier, but no one was able to buy one of those new for $24K
Even after changing the oil and fighting that filter location id still buy my NMS all over again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHQk4y_x5Aw

 

[pedorro]

Uh, the plural of Passat is Passats.

 

[jrm]

Well actually its Nord
Spelled Passat'nord
we should enter that into the 2015 new word dictionary
(Nord has 4 of them for those who are new)

 

[pparks1]

1) high turbo failure rate- odds are the turbo will fail sooner than later
2) don't expect anything near 50mpg with a DSG
3) buggy electrical system that's prone to kick out a lot of error conditions and failures
4) the engine isn't as good as some of their prior diesel engines
5) lots of general assembly (build QC) issues, especially the 2012 model year
6) and the general sportiness and handling isn't the same as the older Passats

#1). They extended the warranty to 100k, and there was a software update to help alleviate issues. I'm at 30k without a turbo issue
#2). I average right at 40 with mine. I drive more city/urban miles than I do highway. I did get 1 tank, coming back from a road trip where I tried hard and got 50.20MPG. That was 834 miles on 16.615 gallons of fuel. In 40 fillups, I've averaged 46+ on 4 occasions, and 5 tanks over 43. The car is rated 30/40/34. So, I cannot complain, since I live in the north, go through Winter with snow tires and drive more city than highway
#3. No error codes for me
#4. I have no experience with past TDI's, so unsure
#5. I've got a 2013. I get some wind noise from the rear windows. And the trunk wasn't sealed off well from the backseat. It's not finished as nice as my 2002 VW Passat was (but that one came from Germany).
#6. I had a 2002 VW Passat GLX with a 5 speed that I traded for the 2013 Passat TDI. Neither was really "sporty", but my 5 speed v6 was peppier, but I'll take my fuel mileage these days.

 

[Herkguy]

I thought the turbo warranty went to 120k now, not 100k. I haven't looked has Anyone looked the paperwork lately?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

New 2013 Passat TDI SE DSG owner, absolutely love the car so far. Not new to VW (2000 Passat GLS), but first TDI and enjoying the learning curve.
Yesterday I had a casual conversation with someone who claims to know these cars (co-owned a shop specializing in imports), and was very critical with this generation Passat that had me questioning my purchase!
His list of complaints, that I remember:

1) high turbo failure rate- odds are the turbo will fail sooner than later
2) don't expect anything near 50mpg with a DSG
3) buggy electrical system that's prone to kick out a lot of error conditions and failures
4) the engine isn't as good as some of their prior diesel engines
5) lots of general assembly (build QC) issues, especially the 2012 model year
6) and the general sportiness and handling isn't the same as the older Passats

I might be a little spooked since I had the CEL turn on the third day I had it, resulting in replacement of the nox sensor and coolant fan- which was covered by the 24mo/24k warranty that came with the sale.

But.... is this guy full of hot air, can anyone reassure me here?

1.) The turbo failures are addressed in two long threads. It would seem that there was a spate of turbocharger failures that appears to be dropping off of leveling off. Volkswagen is working to address the issue via a software update and an extended turbocharger warranty on 2012, 2013, and 2014 model years.

2.) Fuelly will tell you the true mileage story. My general rule of thumb for trips is 40 MPG @ 75 MPH and up to 55 MPG @ 55 MPH. Passat DSGs are absolutely capable of 50 MPG on a long trip as long as speeds are kept in check. The faster you go, the worse it will get (duh!). Short trips in cold weather will kill your fuel economy. Anyone expecting to get 50 MPG in a modern car on a 5 mile commute to work in the winter is delusional and needs to buy a plug-in hybrid.

3.) The electrical system isn't "buggy." There are a lot of complex components (particularly the emissions systems) and some of them have seen failures. Those failures are reported by the computer, but are no indication of the overall reliability of the electrical system in general.

4.) There is nothing to base this information on. The engine is more complex when you compare it to previous generations, but that doesn't make it "not as good." It isn't really fair to make a comparison of a 2014 engine to one from 2004 or 1994... those old engines might last longer, but they don't meet emissions and therefore can't be sold in new vehicles.

5.) Our 2012 has been very good to us. I don't really have any build quality complaints to speak of. The fit and finish is very good for a vehicle of its size and price point. I would argue that the 2012 is the best overall value, because it comes with a number of standard features in SE trim that you would have to upgrade to an SEL Premium to get in the newer models. I feel that the biggest complaint owners have about build quality are some squeaks and rattles in the dash - nothing new for VW there.

6.) It isn't a sports car. It's a (nearly) full size family sedan. Given what it is being marketed as, I think it checks all of the expectation boxes. For those of you who want a sportier ride, the Passat is very easy to upgrade with aftermarket products, which is true to traditional VW culture... easy to mod with lots of aftermarket support.

 

[SoTxBill]

Its true that your windshield will be covered with bugs in the spring and summer. Really low quality there. My lifetime mpg on the 2013 is 42.2mpg...Driving 60 I get 55 mpg regularly. driving 70 I get 42mpg... driving 75 I get 39 mpg on long trips. A tail/head wind can easily bump it 3 to 5 either way. Back on summer fuel now, I'm back into the mid 40's easily and usually in the high 40's I can see 3 to 6mpg between winter fuel and summer fuel. I do mostly suburban/ expressway driving, almost no city.

 

[Salsaman06]

New 2013 Passat TDI SE DSG owner, absolutely love the car so far. Not new to VW (2000 Passat GLS), but first TDI and enjoying the learning curve.
Yesterday I had a casual conversation with someone who claims to know these cars (co-owned a shop specializing in imports), and was very critical with this generation Passat that had me questioning my purchase!
His list of complaints, that I remember:

1) high turbo failure rate- odds are the turbo will fail sooner than later
2) don't expect anything near 50mpg with a DSG
3) buggy electrical system that's prone to kick out a lot of error conditions and failures
4) the engine isn't as good as some of their prior diesel engines
5) lots of general assembly (build QC) issues, especially the 2012 model year
6) and the general sportiness and handling isn't the same as the older Passats

I might be a little spooked since I had the CEL turn on the third day I had it, resulting in replacement of the nox sensor and coolant fan- which was covered by the 24mo/24k warranty that came with the sale.

But.... is this guy full of hot air, can anyone reassure me here?

1) Everyone else has explained this one.
2) The highest I have ever gotten was 41.4. But with the wide open spaces and high speed limits in Texas, I am not about to drive 55 or 60 or whatever to get any better. I have observed, via the MFD, the "instant" MPG and noticed this engine's efficiency in the Passat is greatly affected by speed. I'm sure if I drove slower I would get better MPG.
3) no experience with this. But it does appear to NOT be a simple electrical system because so many components are controlled/configured via onboard computer systems.
4) I've no experience with this
5) I have a 2013 and the only things I have really noticed are the squeak in the dash (which rarely happens for me) and the occasional buzzing in the subwoofer on some music selections at certain volumes. Both of these appear to have a fix - which I have yet to take advantage of. Other than this, the car seems to be pretty tight and solid. Compare this to the brand new with only 5 mi on the odo Lexus LS430 w/ultra luxury package (their top of the line flagship model) I once bought that had what I consider egregious assembly issues - left out screws in the gas filler shroud to body mounting, door sill trim plates improperly installed, non-fitting transmission heater outlet due to improperly cut opening in the carpet, nasty valve knock in the engine after sitting for a week. Compared to this, my Passat has been near perfect.
6) no experience with previous Passats but this one has a great balance between ride and handling. If I wanted a car to go around on corners like its on rails, I would NOT buy this nor any other 4 door sedan.

 

[oilhammer]

You are the very first person I have ever heard of complain about poor build quality with an LS430. And I worked there, and PDI'd many of them brand new. We never had a single one that was anything less than perfect. We did have a recall to replace the transmissions on 2004 models, although I never did see one that actually broke (park pawl). And we did have a recall on the same cars for fuel pumps, with a small handful indeed being towed in with dead ones.

But as far as fit and finish, they were stellar. I cannot recall doing ANYthing warranty wise on ANY LS430 beyond the above mentioned items. Just scheduled PM, tires as needed, brakes as needed.

Now the RX330/400h.... or the new-for-2006 GS? Yikes. I lost count of how many brand spanking new RXs we had to take the dash out of, and they had so many recalls that a tech could earn a living off of nothing but that.

 

[Sigforty]

Everyone pretty much addressed all your concerns. The only two things I will add are such.

The Adblue sensor pack is starting to get noticed as a failure. I recently had mine replaced at 55k miles. The part is pricey at $400-600 dollars and VW will charge almost the same in labor. Of course today a nice how to thread showed up if folks have to do it themselves.

As for the DSG mileage, I am averaging a lifetime in the 41mpg range. It is possible to hit 50 mpg as I did that for the most part on a road trip. For that 50 mpg you will need to be conservative and not speed. Stay at the speed limit and use cruise control. Additionally, you will need all highway miles. I had over 50 mpg till I took a cruise through downtown Montgomery on my trip. That dropped me from over 50 mpg on my trip to 49 mpg.

 

[LogicBomb]

I absolutely love my 2014 Passat. All of the aforementioned concerns seem to mostly be opinions, aside from the turbocharger issues.

I commute 150 miles a day in Southern California and am averaging 42.6mpg over 44 fill ups. My highest being 47.1, and my lowest 29.1. It has been a learning experience in regards to what achieves the best efficiency for me on my commute. It's a continual up and down trip, with very few flat spots. My major saving grace is ambient air temp, which at even 5 am it's around 60 degrees outside, and my return trips home are in the 70-109 range depending on the season.

 

[Salsaman06]

You are the very first person I have ever heard of complain about poor build quality with an LS430. And I worked there, and PDI'd many of them brand new. We never had a single one that was anything less than perfect. We did have a recall to replace the transmissions on 2004 models, although I never did see one that actually broke (park pawl). And we did have a recall on the same cars for fuel pumps, with a small handful indeed being towed in with dead ones.
But as far as fit and finish, they were stellar. I cannot recall doing ANYthing warranty wise on ANY LS430 beyond the above mentioned items. Just scheduled PM, tires as needed, brakes as needed.
Now the RX330/400h.... or the new-for-2006 GS? Yikes. I lost count of how many brand spanking new RXs we had to take the dash out of, and they had so many recalls that a tech could earn a living off of nothing but that.

At the time, Lexus had a stellar reputation for quality/reliability (for the most part they still do). But my experience is proof that no manufacturer is perfect regardless of reputation or historical evidence. I could sorta forgive the interior faux pas's but when I went to fill up the first time, imagine my surprise and incredulity when I saw the 4 missing screws that were supposed to attach the filler neck to the body. And then few weeks later, the knock in the valve train. On a car of this caliber and price? My first reaction was that Lexus was resting on their laurels. And if the dealer was any indication of the manufacturer, arrogance and complacency were big factors. I am sure I was a rare case but sh*t happens nonetheless.

 

[50pascals]

Just wanted to point out that in general, and across all brands, diesel mileage peaked in the late 90's and early 00's. This is because they had figured out the turbo / injection / pressure / timing / pulsing but had yet to have to deal with emissions. Emissions has clawed back some of the mileage gains.

For example - the regen injects extra fuel essentially into the exhaust to burn off soot. They didn't do this in 1998.

Personally - I wanted the best mileage in a large sedan that could haul four 6' tall plus adults. There is no equal in the market. I drive 35k a year, my driving style is very non-hypermiling, and I average 40 mpg per tank. My wife does significantly better.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Personally - I wanted the best mileage in a large sedan that could haul four 6' tall plus adults. There is no equal in the market. I drive 35k a year, my driving style is very non-hypermiling, and I average 40 mpg per tank. My wife does significantly better.

The Passat is king when it comes to these criteria.

 

[Palouse]

Have a '12 SE DSG. 61000 miles, average 45.1; highest 51. Mostly highway, but living in Idaho we have a lot of hills to climb!

Absolutely no problems, and we are very, very pleased with our dealer.

Just replaced the original Hankooks with Conti True Contacts and the differences are truly amazing-- quieter, more responsive steering and a very controlled ride.

The ergonomics are great, and the back seat room is 2nd to none.