Exxon Predicted Global Warming

Tin Man

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Daemon64

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Makes you wonder if CNN will ever publish an unbiased point of view. Hence the "climate denier" status of those rational enough to know environmental activism is symbolic yet impractical and itself denies realities.
What realities are you referring to? Do you have ideas for solutions that will be effective and implementable? Is there some source you have that says if we do XYZ we can meet this head on and solve it that doesn't follow the same path as the "environmental activists"? The reason I ask is that from this and other threads I hear a lot of discontent / disagreement with the paths being taken, but I'm not hearing what you'd like to see done differently and how that effectively gets us all to a better place... and I'm genuinely curious what your version of things looks like.
 

Tin Man

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What realities are you referring to? Do you have ideas for solutions that will be effective and implementable? Is there some source you have that says if we do XYZ we can meet this head on and solve it that doesn't follow the same path as the "environmental activists"? The reason I ask is that from this and other threads I hear a lot of discontent / disagreement with the paths being taken, but I'm not hearing what you'd like to see done differently and how that effectively gets us all to a better place... and I'm genuinely curious what your version of things looks like.
Since this is an automotive diesel forum, I can name a few things:

- Biased research in health care against diesels: avoiding tire emissions as well as indoor pollution as the cause of city dwellers having more disease than rural dwellers
- EPA rules that favor roomy SUV's and CUV's that make saving gas an afterthought in a population
- Labeling BEV's "zero emissions" when their creation as well as creation of electric power currently involve significant emissions from fossil fuels
- biased articles like the one you quoted that regurgitate Marxist hatred of free-market capitalism and democratic rule

There are many examples including on this forum for believing hype from one point of view while ignoring realities (where are all the "failed fuel pumps from lack of lubricity?" - no valid outcome evidence provided)

Here is an example of how evidence goes against popular belief.

Most people don't even know the concept of "evidence-based research" i.e. they go for "all show, no go" by supporting environmental activism and bashing business (in this case Exxon which does of course have bias also) and not supporting solutions that work well enough for freedom and open-market innovation. Mark the failure to address battery recycling as well as disposal of wind turbine blades and solar panels when they are used up. Government regulations need to have a results test that shows some advantage as well as acceptable consequences, which this CNN/AP article doesn't do (treating Exxon statements as superficial like their own statements are).

No easy solution but the bleating of environmentalists has created unacceptable unintended consequences not unlike the campaign against DDT for malaria
or the failed Kyoto protocol
.

I consider myself to be more of an environmentalist because I like real-world solutions, not pie-in-the-sky Marxist memes.

Solutions such as a carbon tax, evidence-based research findings enactment, eliminating favoritism of SUV's, continued "subsidy" economic support for responsible fossil fuel procurement, carbon sequestration, synthetic fuels (EV percentage barely hits 5% so ICE vehicles should be optimized as an interim measure) and again, not ruining an economy with stupid regulations only to be bankrupt when valid solutions are possible but cost money.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

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Oil companies knew that use of their products causes environmental damage and conceled it. Tobacco companies knew that using their products causes disease and death and conceled that. Why is anyone surprised that they didn't reveal this information?
 

Tin Man

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Oil companies knew that use of their products cause environmental damage and conceled it. Tobacco companies knew that using their products caused disease and death and conceled that. Why is anyone surprised that they didn't reveal this information?
Or... oil companies knew the solutions proposed wouldn't work but superficial journalists didn't care.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I think the info is worth reporting, and has been reported previously. I just don't think it's an earth shattering revelation.
 

Tin Man

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I think the info is worth reporting, and has been reported previously. I just don't think it's an earth shattering revelation.
Which "info"? The one where Exxon was contributing to the knowledge base on climate change through research yet defending itself naturally against climate activist-led illegitimate ideas?
 

Lug_Nut

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Since this is an automotive diesel forum, I can name a few things:

- Biased research in health care against diesels: avoiding tire emissions as well as indoor pollution as the cause of city dwellers having more disease than rural dwellers
- EPA rules that favor roomy SUV's and CUV's that make saving gas an afterthought in a population
- Labeling BEV's "zero emissions" when their creation as well as creation of electric power currently involve significant emissions from fossil fuels
- biased articles like the one you quoted that regurgitate Marxist hatred of free-market capitalism and democratic rule

Mark the failure to address battery recycling as well as disposal of wind turbine blades and solar panels when they are used up.
- Do rural dwellers spend that much less time indoors than city dwellers? No 'brown lung' disease from farmers inhaling dirt particles for all those years?
- EPA rules regarding vehicle emission allowances were modified at the insistence of automakers to provide breaks for their more profitable lines, rules that were written and approved by our representatives (both republican led and democratic led) in congress.
- The zero-emission label is vehicle manufacturer 'green-washing'. See Subaru and their 'greener than thou' "PZEV" badging. Emissions per BTU or kWh from production through use is lower with electricity as the medium than with liquid fuel.

If only wind turbine blades and solar panels waste could be simply chopped up and all that fiberglass, silica, and resin dispersed into the atmosphere after their use, as gasoline and diesel waste are currently dispersed into the atmosphere...
If only 'carbon sequestration' (good) were more correctly called 'landfill' (that's bad?) ....


P.s.: If only "carbon sequestration" weren't as impractical as "the hydrogen economy" or "fusion". All have been perpetually '20 years in the future' for decades.
I don't think a wait and see , kick the can further down the road, someone else will save us attitude is warranted.
 

Tin Man

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- Do rural dwellers spend that much less time indoors than city dwellers? No 'brown lung' disease from farmers inhaling dirt particles for all those years?
Not sure but the main article promoting changes seems to select diesels as the main culprit, a thoroughly illegitimate conclusion. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22396113/
- EPA rules regarding vehicle emission allowances were modified at the insistence of automakers to provide breaks for their more profitable lines, rules that were written and approved by our representatives (both republican led and democratic led) in congress.
I don't break down legislative malfeasance along party lines. Both are equally suspect when it comes to certain subjects, including regulations.
 

Tdipwr11

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Yea I've heard about this year's ago, remember something about the scientists living in regret for not doing as much, or being silenced from the companies
 
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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Exxon-Mobile is a public traded company, lots of people "own" them. Lots of people own lots of big companies, and those shareholders want the company to do well. There are lots of people who like money, because they like a better life. *shrug*

Lots of times science gets a skewed view, depending on who is giving it.

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JELLOWSUBMARINE

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Oh no its nwdiver

thread soon to be about the virtues of EV's 🤪
 

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Waiting for the bra burning equivalent of everyone discharging AC lines into atmosphere lol. In honor of Greta.
 

JELLOWSUBMARINE

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Waiting for the bra burning equivalent of everyone discharging AC lines into atmosphere lol. In honor of Greta.
One can only understand if they've sifted thru her endless thread hyjacks

Back to our regularly scheduled program
 

turbobrick240

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One can only understand if they've sifted thru her endless thread hyjacks

Back to our regularly scheduled program
Referring to him as a her is a pretty sad and low brow attempt at an insult. I legit thought you were a "her" briefly after you had mentioned getting weepy after hormone replacement therapy. Anyhow, we can disagree here without being unpleasant and childish.
 

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Science is as accurate as the money behind it wants it to be.
Which way do you think Exxon 'wanted' it to be? It wasn't what they wanted... so they lied.

Number are numbers. This isn't complicated.

  • CO2 levels have risen ~40% in the past century. There's only one answer to this no matter what the money wants.
  • We've added more than enough CO2 to have caused CO2 levels to rise ~40%. There's only one answer to this no matter what the money wants.
  • The radiative effect of increasing CO2 ~40% is >1w/m^2. There's only one answer this no matter what the money wants.
  • 2 + 2 is 4 no matter what the money wants.
 

turbodieseldyke

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CO2 level did not deviate from its trend AT ALL during 2020, when global industrial production and travel were severely throttled. Mankind isn't causing this.

Your "40%" hysteria is completely disingenuous. 420 out of 1,000,000 is just as negligible as 300 out of 1,000,000. If you people really believe CO2 will end life on Earth, then focus your energies into stopping the 3rd world from "developing", stop their population from exploding (i.e., quit giving them food and medicine), and most of all, stop them from coming here to use more resources and turn on more light bulbs and generate more methane from their exhaust ports. And plant more trees.
 

benIV

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Which way do you think Exxon 'wanted' it to be? It wasn't what they wanted... so they lied.

Number are numbers. This isn't complicated.

  • CO2 levels have risen ~40% in the past century. There's only one answer to this no matter what the money wants.
  • We've added more than enough CO2 to have caused CO2 levels to rise ~40%. There's only one answer to this no matter what the money wants.
  • The radiative effect of increasing CO2 ~40% is >1w/m^2. There's only one answer this no matter what the money wants.
  • 2 + 2 is 4 no matter what the money wants.
I understand and probably agree with you more than not but the truth is that Observational And experimental data is easily manipulated to achieve desired outcomes and they can also be forged or just completely misinterpreted. Experiments can be flawed and give false data. In the end every scientific study, observation, and especially analysis are filtered through people before we read them like religious zealots depending on our own expectations and hopes.
Science was never meant to be the religion it’s become.
 
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