Extremely odd situation coming from Dieselgate

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nbas2b

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bay area
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2014
I'm an owner of a 2014 VW passat TDI. And I'm sure all of you are aware of the VW scandal.

Well initially, I didn't pay much attention to the news of the scandal breaking out as I figured it would be a quick fix and that I'd eventually just need to bring my car in for a couple hours. After reading more into it, I started to realize the depth of what they actually did.

And the more I read, the more i learned. One of the things, was that NOx, can cause respiratory problems, especially people who have had asthma. After reading that, i started to connect some of my current health problems to this scandal.

I bought my car a year and a half ago and have since put 82k miles on my car. I'm an uber driver and on average have probably spent 60-70 hours a week in my car. Now that I have the information I can look back and link the dots, but a couple months after getting my car I did start to notice this odd breathing sensation. Didn't happen very often, but I did notice it.

I moved up to the bay area around September of last year for work. And when I did that, that's when I ended up spending anywhere from 80-100 hours/ week in my car. That's also when I started to notice this breathing sensation becoming a bigger problem. I eventually went to my doctor and he actually diagnosed me with a mild case of COPD (At the time, I thought it was extremely odd because it wasn't like i was smoking or doing anything to deteriorate my respiratory function).


I find it extremely suspicious that these symptoms started happening right around the time that I got this car.

With that information at my disposal, i decided to test the air coming into the cabin. I took my car to a sports performance place yesterday and they tested the air. The only thing of significance blowing into the cabin was NOx. It came back reading anywhere from 5-9ppm of NOx. I'm taking my car back today after driving it for a few hours to see if anything changes.

I tried calling the EPA and American Lung Association of America , but neither of them answered. I feel overwhelmed and not exactly sure what to do with these answers.

I'm not sure If these numbers are significant or not. And smog shops don't help me according to NAAQS, ambient air should have no more than .056 ppm of NOx. I've also read studies involving mice where they are exposed to 4.2 PPM of NOx and them showing diminished lung function.

I'm just trying to gather information right now. Mainly what is the average car output of NOx in emissions. Gas and diesel. And any other pointers, knowledge, or anything else would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

red16vdub

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(617) City of CHAMPIONS
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Trust me I'm sure you're health issues have nothing to do with the fact you drive a diesel. Lmaol really guy hahahaa this sh!t is too funny ???


Bajan
 

vanbcguy

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'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
Unless you're inhaling right from your tailpipe the ppm count of NOx you are being exposed to becomes a tiny fraction of the actual tailpipe emissions as soon as it hits the atmosphere.

You will likely find it's not the car causing your issues but rather your move to the bay area.
 

SFHGolfTDI

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While it is interesting that you have a solid number for NOx emissions in your cabin, I am more likely to attribute your respiratory issues to spending 80-100 hours per week driving through traffic congestion and on freeways, where many, many other pollutants will also make their way into your cabin.

Although I am not diagnosed with asthma, I do have very sensitive lungs to air pollution. When I am on the freeway in bad congestion for any length of time, or biking through congestion, I can immediately feel the effects.

I'm not saying that the NOx isn't an issue, but I think there are many factors that are contributing and it will be difficult to isolate just that one. Also, how is NOx getting into your cabin when it is coming out the tailpipe? Did they test the ambient air outside your car also to see how much is around your intake vents? It is not like your car is sweating NOx out of every orifice, so there must be some pathway for it to get from the tailpipe into your vehicle, which is a bit strange.
 
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tadawson

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2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
The air intake for the cabin is in front, the exhaust in back . . . so whatever you are breathing came from the guy in *front* of you, not your car, and which common sense should have made obvious.

The again, the 'knee-jerk/gimmedat/paranoid' crowd hasn't shown much willingness to spend much time thinking . . . .

- Tim
 

MyAvocation

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Location
Hoffman Estates, IL
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2017 Passat SEL TSI
OP, you may be on to something, so don't take this the wrong way, but there are other factors to consider, such as:
- did you move from another urban area?
- did you previously spend similar amount of time sitting with engine running and/or in traffic?

Let's not assume this is inherent to all TDIs or even Passats, since this is one reported case. But to your points, I would absolutely thoroughly-test your vehicle for source of an exhaust leak, as it's not in any car manufacturer's best interest to be transparent about this.

Did testing facility also attempt to isolate this presumed leak?

If this were my issue, I would have a competent and certified independent auto mechanic, or similar, using the proper tools, locate the source and quantify the exhaust leak. Then visit a dealership for remediation, including reimbursement of independent testing. Perhaps VW will be happy to comply and avoid expanding Dieselgate to include actual bodily harm from emissions.

EDIT: And to the point of others, I too do not have lung problems, but distinctly remember how my lungs and sinuses felt after stepping off a plane in Beijing.
 
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nbas2b

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bay area
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2014
To the 2 posters that actually replied with some useful pointers: do you of you know what is a low/medium/high exposure of NOx? Just so i have some good baselines/thresholds to go off of.

The guy at the shop thought it seemed to be a little high, but nothing too crazy.

I looked up OSHA standards and they say all the way up to 25 ppm for diesel exhausts. But when I compare that to the NAAQS, that's quite a far discrepancy between the two.

The reasoning for posting this isn't to make ridiculous claim, to get attention, etc. All I've simply done was possibly connect the link between my health issues and maybe a possible trigger for it.

I'm not too familiar with cars and the way they work so that's why I rely on mechanics and their answers based off my questions. Is an exhaust leak truly the only way NOx can get into my cabin? Or could there possibly be other ways as well?
 

hudsonian

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Calgary, AB
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2013 Passat Highline TDI
I agree with most of the above, especially as the air intake is at the front and the tail pipe at the back... 100 hours on the road following many other tail pipes probably does not help.

The only comment I would make it to check your exhaust system. If you search this forum you will find a post I did about 1.5 years ago where I was getting raw diesel fumes (pre DEF) into the cabin of the car through the vents.

When they tested the exhaust system with back pressure they found a leak. The clamp holding the turbo exit to the exhaust was missing and the engine fumes were exiting into the engine bay and were then being sucked into the car ventilation system.

The smell was horrific, so I doubt you have this issue as I could barely sit in the car with the vents running.
 

kconnor123

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midwest
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2012 VW passat
Seriously man, i hear you.

I bought mine 3 years ago and ever since i've been developing male pattern baldness.

Darn Volkswagens.
 
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TDI2000Zim

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NJ
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VW hat meinen '14 Passat TDiSE getötet.
Medicinal marihuana can also exacerbate breathing problems.
 

50pascals

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Rochester, NY
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2014 A6 3.0 TDI Prestige, prior was a 2013 TDI Passat SEL Plus
To the OP, I can understand your thoughts. I used to do Building Science and IAQ consulting.

In regards to your test - what was the background NOx level - in the shop? Outside?

You can't really know anything from a single point measurement. This causes you to make unrelated comparisons - like the level you measured compared to what the NAAQS (or whoever) says. if the entire neighborhood is higher than what the NAAQS says than you may think you learned something about your car, but in reality you learned something about your neighborhood.

The only way to prove or disprove this is to take you completely out of the neighborhood in some sort of "blind" study. The problem is that you already know this, and already think this, so getting objective results from any sort of environmental change will be pretty slim. Not saying your crazy, just saying that the human brain works that way.

A side note - if you sit in traffic in a car all day your exhaust is about 1/1000th of your concern.

Also consider on hot sunny days Ozone levels are higher - this is much more common an allergen.

Regarding it's sudden onset - These things also happen with age. It is not uncommon to "suddenly" be sensitive to something that you never even knew about before.
 

dropnosky

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Lets skip to how much cheddar VW needs to put on the table to make you feel better
 

Atlas1X

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Location
Greensboro, NC
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2013 Passat TDI SE
And the more I read, the more i learned. One of the things, was that NOx, can cause respiratory problems, especially people who have had asthma. After reading that, i started to connect some of my current health problems to this scandal.
Something similar happened to me when I traded in my Prius and I bought my Passat TDI. I woke up the next morning and went to work, I got out of my car and coincidentally a girl looked at me for extended periods of time. Almost like she was checking me out. Then she like winked at me. I thought it was strange but went about my day.

Then another woman walked by my desk, she asked if I had bought a new car. I said yeah I did actually... and she was like "OMG really?? It isn't a VW Passat with Turbo Injected Diesel would it???" I said "yes, yes it is." She shouted really loud, and ran away giggling and all red in the face and went over to her other friends and was pointing at me and waving to me.

Then later that same day at my work an announcement came over the intercom, "Would the owner of a red Volkswagen Passat, please call the operator." So I call her and she is like, "hey are you the owner of that hot awesome flashy diesel out in the parking lot?" I told her, "yes of course I am is something wrong?" Immediately she said she was having trouble breathing (OMG my emissions?) , and she was having high heart rate. "I told her, hey everything is OK..." She was like, "I can't believe it is you." "You are so cool...." but she couldn't say it without taking really deep breaths.

So later on that day I took her on a date and she seemed pretty normal. However I was not sure how to explain it. Ever since then this has happened almost daily. I am starting to wonder if my car has somethign to do with how women are able to breathe around me since I bought my Passat.
 

DonC

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Take a deep breath and relax

Thanks for the breath of "fresh air" on this topic and a moment of humor. We all need to relax and let the fix be presented and done in due course.
 

ZippyNH

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It
Trust me I'm sure you're healh issues have nothing to do with the fact you drive a diesel. Lmaol really guy hahahaa this sh!t is too funny ������


Bajan
Yup....
And to the OP...
Your "dirty" diesel is still cleaner than earlier cars and trucks......
And the exhaust goes out the TAILPIPE.... if what you are saying is at all possible, then EVERY GAS CAR DRIVER WOULD BE DEAD OF CO (CARBON MONOXIDE) poisoning!!!
Somehow I think you are suddenly wanting some cash from VW....
Trying to set the stage for a lawsuit? Testing the waters? Trying to blame your car is pretty dishonest...
While a car that does not meet epa standard is an societal issue, I really doubt it has anything to do with your health issues....
And as one professional driver to another....I drive 100,000+ miles a year on a pre-emissions 16 litre diesel truck....you need exercise....
You sit all day...your body falls apart if you don't exercise vigorously to make up for it...
 
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dropnosky

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RI
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2000 Jetta 6 speed, 2012 Passat DSG
Yup...
This place is beginning like NAM for MINI's...
There are what, 2 to 3 hundred of these threads right now?

Good luck to the OP, unfortunately his revelation is a little late as VW will be broke after im done suing them for my dogs incontinence issue. Ever since i bought the car on his 14th birthday hes been crapping in the house.

Coincidence? I think not
 
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