Excessive AdBlue Usage?

[buguyed]

I purchased a 2016 TDI Touareg at the end of May. After the first trip pulling our 4,000 lb camper it needed AdBlue. Thought nothing of it and went to the dealer for a free fill up. This weekend we came home from camping again and the AdBlue now has 60 miles to empty! It’s literally gone about 900 miles on a tank of AdBlue. 350 of those miles were pulling the camper... pulling the camper we are seeing only 11-12 mpg while everyone always raves about 14-17 mpg pulling similar campers. Doesn’t matter how nice I drive no changes.

Even when we aren’t pulling the camper the mpg hasn’t been that great around town. Wife has been seeing 15-19 mpg everywhere and we got 26 driving empty on a short trip. Should I call the dealer and ask them what’s going on? Has anyone experienced questionable mpg and extremely fast AdBlue usage?

 

[35 Yr Dsl Veteran]

The more fuel you use, the more AdBlue you use. No big deal.

 

[showdown 42]

Well 2 things that are probably going on, It appears you are in Mountain territory so that adds to the pressure on the engine and adds to use of adblue and the altitude also contributes to more usage.

I have a 2016 TDI TREG and drive in the low land and get 10,000 miles on a tank of ad blue. Driving to FL going 75-80 MPH I get 30MPGs. I've made 3 round trips of 3000 miles with those results. I is worth having the rig checked out to make sure nothing is adjusted wrong. When I tow a boat which is only 2500#s I will see 15-17 MPGS.

 

[alext91]

wow, that's interesting. Unrelated and not helpful, but my wife and I are still waiting on the warning for her 2015 Golf, which we've done 13,000 miles in since we bought it, and no sign of needing AdBlue yet...

 

[35 Yr Dsl Veteran]

When I tow a boat which is only 2500#s I will see 15-17 MPGS.

Wow, that's quite a drop for not that much weight. Our BMW X5 d35 3.0L I-6 which got 29 MPG on the highway, dropped to 13-14 MPG towing our 6,000# RV. Towing same RV with our F-350 6.0 Powerstroke, MPG dropped from normal highway MPG of 16.6 to around the same 13-14 MPG.

 

[ZippyNH]

Likely you ARE using more due to towing... surely you are using more due to lower mpg...
That having been said...
Look around for a possible leak ..
A white crust is typical for a DEF leak...

But also DEF is so cheap...only $2.99-3.99 a gallon at a truck stop (same stuff and fresh) I wouldn't consider it worth going to a dealer if it was more than 5 minutes out of my way....

 

[ZippyNH]

Another thought... towing is usually a drop, but not a HUGE drop in MPG.... mountains can be a big part, but driving style is huge too....
When towing.... don't try to drive like you are even keeping up with traffic... honestly...you want a steady stream of cars passing you and a steady pressure on the pedal, minimizing shifts.....
If you are feeling constant shifts, major RPM changes....you might be trying to simply go faster than you should in the hills for the motor you have.

 

[KITEWAGON]

That use seems way high. My best guess is that the dealer didn't actually fill the tank and just got enough Adblue in there to clear the "miles to empty" warning.

Are people getting all of their Adblue filled for free while under warranty? I had a service writer tell me that he confirmed that the free fill was only between scheduled services. So they'd fill it free at 155k, but then I'd pay at 160k, then VW would cover it at 165k. I don't think he was right, but I'm not wasting my time going to the dealer for $12 worth of Adblue either so I don't care.

I don't have good records on how much our Treg uses post-fix but I think it takes a 2.5 gallon fill every 3000-5000 miles.

 

[buguyed]

The funny thing is I get better mpg pulling the camper through the hills. I don’t baby too much it in the hills either. I’ll have them check for a leak when I bring it to the dealer for fun.

Dealer said my AdBlue refills are free until my power train warranty is over. 10 years 120k miles.

Still think the car should be doing better mpg when empty, especially on the highway. Hate this stupid emission crap but the warranty is nice

 

[35 Yr Dsl Veteran]

Another thought... towing is usually a drop, but not a HUGE drop in MPG....

NOT! Our son towed a good size U-Haul when he moved from central FL to LA area (even though Manual says "for technical reasons, you cannot tow with this vehicle" ) with his (my old) 1998 Jetta TDI! 5 1/2 years ago. His MPG plummeted from 50+ MPG hwy. to the LOW 20s!!!

 

[ksa63]

I have not really noticed a huge change in DEF consumption while towing our 6500lb trailer but in general I only tow about 300 to 400 km per trip and I don't do more than 3 or 4 trips between 15K Km services.



People towing similar trailers to mine with the same vintage Touareg have mentioned that they are only getting 100kM per Liter of DEF when towing. Yes, that's right, they say they are adding about 10L of DEF for every 1000km towed. I have heard this from 2 other Treg owners. This is since the emission fix btw.



This is what I have heard but I cannot confirm it with my experience yet.
Kevin

 

[maxTouareg]

DEF during towing

I have not really noticed a huge change in DEF consumption while towing our 6500lb trailer but in general I only tow about 300 to 400 km per trip and I don't do more than 3 or 4 trips between 15K Km services.


People towing similar trailers to mine with the same vintage Touareg have mentioned that they are only getting 100kM per Liter of DEF when towing. Yes, that's right, they say they are adding about 10L of DEF for every 1000km towed. I have heard this from 2 other Treg owners. This is since the emission fix btw.


This is what I have heard but I cannot confirm it with my experience yet.
Kevin

I can confirm the approximately 1L per 100km during towing. Drove across Canada with a trailer and needed to keep a stock of DEF onboard. I was hoping that the 1L/100km was too high.....

During non-towing driving however, the Teg consumes about 1L per 1600km.
Regards,

 

[35 Yr Dsl Veteran]

I can confirm the approximately 1L per 100km during towing. Drove across Canada with a trailer and needed to keep a stock of DEF onboard. I was hoping that the 1L/100km was too high.....

During non-towing driving however, the Teg consumes about 1L per 1600km.
Regards,

It wouldn't be a 16:1 difference! 1.6 to 1 sounds about right.

 

[Fourdiesel]

It is to be expected that DEF usage would increase with load - ie towing. The purpose of the DEF is to reduce NOx. NOx is only produced in excessive quantities under the higher load conditions when combustion temperatures are at their highest. High temps mean more NOx therefore more DEF is required to neutralize the NOx to acceptable limits. Tow a heavy load up a long steep hill = max DEF usage. Downhill - none!

 

[LA-TDI]

FYI, per the settlement (IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR 2015—2016 3.0L TDI Volkswagen GENERATION 2.2 ENGINE):

AdBlue® re-fillings will also be offered free of charge between service intervals for:
- 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first from the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
- 4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of the emissions modification

 

[maxTouareg]

Canada settlement

I went through the Canadian settlement. It seems that only the generation 1 Touareg is listed:

"The offer extended to an Eligible Claimant who makes a Claim in respect of, and is in possession of, a Generation One Eligible Vehicle, will include a voucher for one AdBlue® refill and one oil change to the Eligible Claimant" Court File No.: CV-15-537029-00CP, 6.2 Claims Program

The closest statement that I could find to your 10 year etc. is the following:
"The Extended Emissions Warranty period will be the greater of:
- 10 years or 193,000 km, whichever comes first, from the vehicle’s original in-service date; and
- 4 years or 77,000 km, whichever comes first, from the date and mileage of implementing the Emissions Compliant Repair."

So instead of free refiles we get extended warranty :/

 

[redbarron55]

I have towed my 16' Scamp from Navarre to Albuquerque with trips through Santa Fe and Taos putting about 2700 miles on it.
The VW dealer topped the DEF up and Just to check the usage I topped if off with Walmart DEF and added about 2.2 gallons just the other day.
By the way according to the CPU I got about 18 MPG and according to my pencil about 13.5 MPG.
I have a hard time understanding a 22% error in the readings!.
We towed about 65 mph (up hill all the way!)

 

[35 Yr Dsl Veteran]

I have towed my 16' Scamp from Navarre to Albuquerque with trips through Santa Fe and Taos putting about 2700 miles on it.
The VW dealer topped the DEF up and Just to check the usage I topped if off with Walmart DEF and added about 2.2 gallons just the other day.
By the way according to the CPU I got about 18 MPG and according to my pencil about 13.5 MPG.
I have a hard time understanding a 22% error in the readings!.
We towed about 65 mph (up hill all the way!)

Mine is really accurate.

I'd much more believe the computer number than your calculations, as our BMW X5 d35 which got LOWER MPG that Touareg (29 vs. 33 on the highway) had MPG drop to 13.5, but that was with a 6,000 lb. 24 ft. RV trailer. I suspect it would have been around 18 towing the trailer you have.

 

[psd1]

FYI, per the settlement (IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR 2015—2016 3.0L TDI Volkswagen GENERATION 2.2 ENGINE):

AdBlue® re-fillings will also be offered free of charge between service intervals for:
- 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first from the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
- 4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of the emissions modification

Can you provide the exact source for this quote. Thanks!

 

[Tom_B]

Can you provide the exact source for this quote. Thanks!

Go to the vwcourtsettlement.com website, all of the booklets as a result of the settlement (U.S.?) are there under the "Approved Emissions Modifications" link on the 3.0 Liter Vehicles page. If I recall, the booklets were sent or given to the owner as a result of the fix. If you don't have one you can print it.

For example, see p. 5 of the link below for your specific request:
https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/VW_BOOKLET_3L_Gen_2-2_FINAL_ONLINE.pdf

 

[psd1]

Go to the vwcourtsettlement.com website, all of the booklets as a result of the settlement (U.S.?) are there under the "Approved Emissions Modifications" link on the 3.0 Liter Vehicles page. If I recall, the booklets were sent or given to the owner as a result of the fix. If you don't have one you can print it.

For example, see p. 5 of the link below for your specific request:
https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/VW_BOOKLET_3L_Gen_2-2_FINAL_ONLINE.pdf

I have the booklet, and have still had a dealership deny free adblue. Thats why I was looking for source on this much more direct statement.

"AdBlue® re-fillings will also be offered free of charge between service intervals for:
- 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first from the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
- 4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of the emissions modification"

 

[KITEWAGON]

I have the booklet, and have still had a dealership deny free adblue. Thats why I was looking for source on this much more direct statement.

"AdBlue® re-fillings will also be offered free of charge between service intervals for:
- 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first from the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
- 4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of the emissions modification"

Same. My dealership interpreted this to mean that free adblue would be provided between services, but not AT services. So I had the car in for a 150k service (really just an oil change and getting new tires mounted) and they wouldn't fill it for free because I was at a service interval. They said it would be free if required at 155k or whatever. I think its BS, but really I wouldn't take my car in for this anyway. I'd rather pay $12 for the jug of it and do it myself than waste my time at a dealer. I just happened to be there. As it turned out there was an open bulletin for the adblue heater so they fixed that and had to fill the adblue as part of that repair so I got my free fill anyway.

 

[psd1]

Same. My dealership interpreted this to mean that free adblue would be provided between services, but not AT services. So I had the car in for a 150k service (really just an oil change and getting new tires mounted) and they wouldn't fill it for free because I was at a service interval. They said it would be free if required at 155k or whatever. I think its BS, but really I wouldn't take my car in for this anyway. I'd rather pay $12 for the jug of it and do it myself than waste my time at a dealer. I just happened to be there. As it turned out there was an open bulletin for the adblue heater so they fixed that and had to fill the adblue as part of that repair so I got my free fill anyway.

Interesting, I have a 14 and haven't seen a bulletin/repair letter.

 

[Tom_B]

I have the booklet, and have still had a dealership deny free adblue. Thats why I was looking for source on this much more direct statement.
"AdBlue® re-fillings will also be offered free of charge between service intervals for:
- 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever occurs first from the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
- 4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of the emissions modification"

If I'm not mistaken the linked booklet contains the word-for-word statement on page 5 under "Changes in Maintenance Schedule." However that booklet may not apply to your vehicle, if your vehicle is different. I've read a lot about the settlement that relates to Touaregs, but I'm not as familiar with settlement aspects for other vehicles. I've not been denied for our Touareg or Audi with 3.0L engines, but that's no good to anyone else when addressing different dealers. Good luck.

 

[Radman]

Interesting, I have a 14 and haven't seen a bulletin/repair letter.

I never got the letter either, they only advised me when I was in for NOX sensor replacement.

 

[psd1]

Same. My dealership interpreted this to mean that free adblue would be provided between services, but not AT services. So I had the car in for a 150k service (really just an oil change and getting new tires mounted) and they wouldn't fill it for free because I was at a service interval. They said it would be free if required at 155k or whatever. I think its BS, but really I wouldn't take my car in for this anyway. I'd rather pay $12 for the jug of it and do it myself than waste my time at a dealer. I just happened to be there. As it turned out there was an open bulletin for the adblue heater so they fixed that and had to fill the adblue as part of that repair so I got my free fill anyway.

My dealership interpreted it to mean that I HAD to have the vehicle serviced there.

 

[psd1]

I never got the letter either, they only advised me when I was in for NOX sensor replacement.

Thanks for the response!

 

[Tom_B]

Same. My dealership interpreted this to mean that free adblue would be provided between services, but not AT services. So I had the car in for a 150k service (really just an oil change and getting new tires mounted) and they wouldn't fill it for free because I was at a service interval. They said it would be free if required at 155k or whatever. I think its BS, but really I wouldn't take my car in for this anyway. I'd rather pay $12 for the jug of it and do it myself than waste my time at a dealer. I just happened to be there. As it turned out there was an open bulletin for the adblue heater so they fixed that and had to fill the adblue as part of that repair so I got my free fill anyway.

I did our adblue refills on our 2009, pre-settlement. Since then our dealer(s) have provided free refills on our 2014. This week we had a CEL, VCDS scan provided:

17277 - SCR NOx Catalyst Bank 1
P20EE 00 [232] - Efficiency too Low
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

Took it to a dealer knowing it should be covered under extended TDI warranty. They tested the urea concentration in the fluid, stated it was below spec, and asked if I had used genuine VW DEF. Told them it had always been refilled at another VW dealer, who had records to verify. Since it could be verified, the cost will be covered by TDI warranty -- $600 to drop the adblue tank, drain and refill.

Just food for thought, for those that DIY, might want to consider buying the slightly more expensive genuine VW DEF and keeping the receipts.

 

[crazyrunner33]

Keep in mind for future reference that urea consumption correlates pretty well with fuel consumption. For modern Cummins engines, it's typically 50:1 since they don't use EGR to reduce NOx once warmed up. I'd try and compare your urea usage over time vs gallons of diesel to keep an eye on the ratio.

 

[Mike in Anchorage]

I'm new to a Touareg. Also, new to towing. 2016 towing a 23' camping trailer. Yep, I add AdBlue often. Like every 1500 miles when towing and in the mountains.

Question: I do hate the location for adding AdBlue. Seems I also spill some in that dark space. Knowing now that spillage crusts up, should I be concerned about the stuff I spill into the dark space below the spare floor? Does it drain out somewhere? Does it crust up and I need not worry about it? Should I try my best to wipe the area out with a damp cloth from time to time? Is there a mod to allow an AdBlue fill in the fuel fill area where it is in my 2015 GSP?

TIA