Eurotrash Motorsports - Audi A4 OPRC / Targa TDi

nitec

Vendor
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Jan 30, 2006
Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
all right...here's some numbers from a MK4 - somebody can confirm them for me...

2.0:
Bore:82.6mm
Stroke: 92.7mm
Displacement: 1984cc
Rod Length: 144mm
CR: 10:1

1.8T:
Bore: 81mm
Stroke: 86.4mm
Displacement: 1781cc
Rod Length: 144mm
CR: 9.5:1

1.9TDi:
Bore: 79.5mm
Stroke: 95.5mm
Displacement: 1896cc
Rod Length: 144mm
CR: 19.5:1

Some more info...The 2.0 and 1.8T engines are both the same deck height...my understanding is so is the ALH (and by extension AHU). The AHU internals will work, but the oil pump ring gear will be a problem...Considering I don't have an ALH handy, I will need to make do with the 2.0 or 1.8T internals (de-stroking) with a set of custom pistons...The 1.8T block has the piston squirters but the volume is lower..

Can anybody confirm if the fuel pump bracket from the AHU will mount to the ALH (or 2.0 or 1.8T) block? Do they use the same mounting holes?

Does anybody have the 1.9TDi cylinder data (deck height, head gasket space, piston top volume and combustion chamber) to verify the compression ratio using a 2.0 or 1.8T block? Who does custom pistons? what are the effects of de-stroking? Higher RPM but loss of low end torque? or is it the other way around?
 
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nitec

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Ottawa, ON
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1.9TDi PD
Hahah...feels like I`m talking to myself here...perhaps I should take the engine build to a thread of its own

Some more info borrowed from another thread here:

Weeeeee


Strokes
tdi = 95.5mm
aba (AEG) = 92.8mm
8v/16v 1.8l and 1.8t = 86.4mm
Custom 100mm

Bores
TDI Stock - 79.5
TDI Max Overbore - 82 (2.0 is at 82.6 - why is 82 considered to be the safe limit? pressure of the TDi vs. gasser?!)
TDI Safe Overbore - 81

New Rod Lengths
Stock - 144
95.5-86.4 = (9.1)/2 = 4.55+144 = 148.55
95.5-92.8 = (2.7)/2 = 1.35+144 = 145.35
95.5-100 = (-4.5)/2 = -2.25+144 = 141.75

Rod/Stroke Ratios w/ Custom Rods
Stock - 144/95.5 = 1.5078534
148.55/86.4 = 1.7193287
145.35/92.8 = 1.56627155
141.75/100 = 1.4175

Stock Rods w/ Custom Pistons
144/86.4 = 1.66666666
144/92.8 = 1.55172414
144/100 = 1.44

Discplacements
Stock
79.5 x 95.5 = 1896.2
Max Overbore
82 x 86.4 = 1825.1
82 x 92.8 = 1960.3
82 x 100 = 2113.2
Safe Overbore
81 x 86.4 = 1780.9
81 x 92.8 = 1912.8
81 x 100 = 2062

Other VW Engines
1.8t = 81mm x 86.4 w/ 144mm rods

From what I recall, the AEG has 2 extra oil return holes compared to the ABA...those can be welded off...I`ll take the AHU apart later this week and overlay the head on the engine...

It would appear the AEB 1.8t engine would be the easiest fit for the AHU head but I`d still like to make that AEG work...

I need some guru speak here...Here are the possible combinations and pros/cons (keep in mind I`m building a race engine):

1. Stock AHU in the B5 - no internal work, just simple rebuild / custom mounts, poor L/R ratio, not much for high end torque
2. AHU engine with ABA crank, stock 144mm rods, custom pistons - de-stroked / custom mounts, custom pistons
3. AHU head on ABA block - blocks are a dime a dozen, bigger displacement, de-stroked / custom mounts, custom pistons
4. AHU head on AEG block - blocks are a dime a dozen, bigger displacement, de-stroked, bolt-in engine / custom pistons, head work to mate to block
4. AHU head on AEB block - de-stroked, bolt-in engine, oil squirters under pistons, lower displacement / custom pistons, may need boring
4. AHU head on any other 1.8t block - de-stroked, bolt-in engine, relatively easy to find blocks / custom pistons, head work to mate to block, may need boring

So far, de-stroking seems like a good idea. The pistons would be custom in pretty much any scenario (unless BHW pistons, which are 81.5mm but hard to find and $$) so they won't be the deciding factor at the moment. It might be cheaper to get new rods made than to get new pistons made (ie use stock AHU pistons with longer rods). The AEG/1.8T engine route seems the sweetest for ease of mounting and availability of blocks - depends on the work required to fit the head.

I need some help with the compression ratios - will they depend on the piston design? Can I just assume that I will get whatever compression ratio I want? The turbo of choise is currently the Holset Hx30 - should I aim to reduce the stock 19.5:1 or keep it the same?
 

nitec

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Location
Ottawa, ON
TDI
1.9TDi PD
hmmm...interesting info on the R8 V12 TDi...

Displacement: 5934cc
Bore: 83mm
Stroke: 91.4mm
Bore/Stroke ratio: 0.91 (undersquare)

any info on their rods? can we assume they use standard 144mm? if that's the case the rod ratio is 1.575
 
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nitec

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thanks...so 1.7 rod ratio and they rev comfortably to 4000 rpm...that's what I've heard quoted for the R18 and R15 cars as well...
 

mogly

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
TDI
MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
What's your aversion to using a PD block? Seems like any savings in purchasing an AHU will be quickly gobbled up with custom machine work.
 

nitec

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1.9TDi PD
cost and parts availability...

BEW (BHW) hardest to find (ie most expensive)
ALH - harder to find but not impossible
AHU, 1Z, AEG, ABA. AEB (and other 1.8t) are a dime a dozen....

this is a racing motor - I need parts that are easy and cheap to source and replace...also why I`m trying to stay away from the VNT turbo...nothing will go forward if it requires custom machine work - I`m looking for stock parts solutions...
 

mogly

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
TDI
MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
cost and parts availability...

BEW (BHW) hardest to find (ie most expensive)
ALH - harder to find but not impossible
AHU, 1Z, AEG, ABA. AEB (and other 1.8t) are a dime a dozen....

this is a racing motor - I need parts that are easy and cheap to source and replace...also why I`m trying to stay away from the VNT turbo...nothing will go forward if it requires custom machine work - I`m looking for stock parts solutions...
Personally, I think you should add the BHW to the list. yes, they're harder to find than an ALH or AHU but they're certainly available.

Good call on dropping any custom machine work. I didn't grasp (fully) what you were trying to accomplish until you posted this comment.

I'm curious, for your car what would anticipate keeping as "spares" for the season? Not a comprehensive "all car" list rather a powertrain list.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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Location
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nitec, I'm a little confused by your insistence to stick to an AHU for cost/sourcing reasons and nixing custom machine work, all the while asking about non-standard strokes, bores and con-rod lengths.

I can tell you that bore/stroke and stroke/rod length ratios are the least of your concerns for a race engine build. The 5-cylinder T-FSI engine used in the TT-RS, RS3, etc., redline at 8000 RPM with a 92.8mm stroke (mean piston speed = 24.75 m/s); the 4.2 V8, 8250 RPM on the same stroke. A TDI engine will not operate anywhere near where these dimensions would represent limitations.

Apart from unknown fitment issues to a TDI head and ancillaries, using a gasoline block is a non-starter for a reliable race engine because the big-end and main bearing journal diameters are usually smaller than for Diesel engines; they are not as strong will not take the pounding from Diesel engine cylinder pressures with reliability and durability and additionally you'll need custom rods to match the smaller big-end with the TDI-standard 26mm small-end.

With a BHW engine, apart from the unfortunate BSM (delete in a race engine) and PD top-end (use a VE head) you have the stoutest 4-cylinder shortblock TDI that will drop into your B5 A4's longitudinal layout with no mount modifications with the bonus of extra displacement and pistons with good cooling channels.

AHU/1Z engines are at least 14 years old now; many that you find in salvage will have substantial km and questionable condition. In Canada/US at least, ALHs are the dime-a-dozen choice as a matter of fact. There have been continual engineering improvements with each succeeding engine - though I agree that some newer engines have been more problematic than the ones they've replaced.

Edit: BHW pistons can now be sourced for little more than 1Z/AHU/ALH ones: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=377418
 
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TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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From the sound of things, you're behind the original timeline in your first post to get the engine done. I've offered to meet up with you in Ottawa, speak on the phone - whatever - and give any technical help I can. That offer stands.
 

nitec

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Ottawa, ON
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1.9TDi PD
All right...that's fair and I think my reasoning behind all of this is not clearly stated...Let's see if I can try and clarify some things...I feel like I should provide some background so you guys understand my concerns a little better...

Aside from all of my car modification history, I started off in racing as the electrical and engine management engineer on a Formula SAE team. I saw first hand what custom work, lack of testing, poor engineering judgement, poor team management, lack of preparation, scope creep etc does to a racing team. I would classify the results of this endeavor from a racing point of view as a 'complete failure' for a number of reasons many of which related directly to unrealistic requirements set forth by the team management.

Fast forward to two years ago, I raced a B4 2.2T 20v 5cyl Avant in Targa Newfoundland. This started off as a 2.0 FWD imported Avant that I decided to build up for the rally (http://motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39033). During the 6 months it took me to build the car, I was constantly battling with ****ty customer service, custom one-off parts, hard to source and rare components, sole source purchasing etc etc. Due to supplier incompetence, I was left with less than two weeks to test a brand new build. Needless to say that's not enough time to test the car, let alone train the driver (me). A week later in Newfoundland, I threw the car face first into a 10ft ditch and destroyed pretty much everything I could.



This was a practice stage before the race even started. I`m not going to go into much details on what work was required to keep this car working for the rest of the week but flying control arms in from Ottawa that night was one of the easiest tasks. I think you get the point.

Here's something interesting I came up with at work recently - the difference between "lessons learned" and "lessons identified". A lesson is not learned until you've taken steps to avoid the event from reoccuring.

So here's a lesson identified and then learned when it comes to racing: "Never build or race a custom one-off piece of equipment unless you have the pockets to support it". I can give you endless examples from racing that all point to the same conclusion. The difference between professional racing teams and most of us is we can't afford to spend 100k and have a spare sequential transmission just sitting there for the swap.

With this in mind - let's look at this engine. I do not disagree with any of the points above. If I had an unlimited budget, I'd have 2 BHW engines built to the same spec with 2 quattro trannies ready to go. I don't, and even if I did I'd never throw away 40k on a week of racing again (lesson learned). The complete AHU has cost me a grand total of 200$ (including block, head, wiring, ecu, turbo, all manifolds etc) and I could probably find it for cheaper if I tried hard enough. Unfortunately, people put too much value on ALHs so I'd have to fork out upwards of 1k for a working engine with a good probability the mileage would be over 2-300k. ALH would be perfect. BEW would be perfect and so would BHW. Let's face it - they're not readily available and they cost money. I have a BEW in my Jetta that I got for next to nothing and I still won't pull it to swap into a race car.

Now - assuming AHU and ALH are the only cost effective choices, and I have an AHU handy, how can I limit the amount of custom work required to fit the AHU? Well...I just so happen to know that an AEG and AWM use the same block as an ALH (ie same mounting etc)...I also happen to know that 20v heads can be fitted to an ABA so there should be a way to do the exact opposite - fit an AHU head onto an AEG (or 1.8T block). All right - we've made some assumptions - now let's make some calculations..Can this actually work?

Well - the AEG has a pretty big bore and no oil squirters. It will need custom pistons (mucho $$) or I`ll have to dig up some T4 pistons. The 1.8t has an 81mm bore so I can find pistons for it relatively easy. With this in mind, what is affected by using these bottom ends? Well - the stroke of the engine and the displacement etc etc etc...

So you see, I`m not building a new engine to reduce the stroke. On the contrary, I`m trying to find the cheapest easiest solution to mating the TDi to my A4 that is repeatable time after time. The reality is - if this works, A LOT of people are going to enjoy the benefits - the same way the 20/20 gas hybrid was put together from a diesel crank and some custom pistons etc etc...There's merrit to doing some of this work - it costs nothing, gets your gears turning and there might be positive results.

As an example - when I was working on the B4 and wanted to run a quattro - EVERYBODY said it's impossible, it's too much work, way too expensive etc etc. If I had listened to the internet, I would have left it at that and moved on. Instead I investigated a little and found out that the B4 chassis is completely identical between the FWD and quattro version and the rear driveline is a direct swap with the exception of one bracket. All in all the swap cost me 50$ for welding a bracket.

Most of you guys here pride yourself with pushing the envelope and thinking outside the box. Without that, most of our projects would be damn boring. Can you honestly tell me that somebody's tried this swap and it doesn't work? If you could, you would have already. I have complete ABA, AHU, AEG, AWM and AEB engines sitting in the garage - why not do a little bit of poking? Worst thing that's going to happen is I`ll realize it's too much work and just weld two mounting brackets together. Same with the turbo - just because EVERYBODY uses VNTs, doesn't mean that's the only option. Worst that can happen is I realize you're right and a WG turbo is silly, but if nobody's tried it you can't make a factual analysis or recommendation for that matter.

Holy **** - this got long. Sorry - I`m using this to sort my own thoughts out as well.

On the question of spares:

1. Transmission
2. Driveshafts - ALL of them
3. Control arms - ALL of them
4. Shocks - all of them
5. Turbo - at least 2
6. Engine (block and head if possible)

The most complete things are, the easiest to swap. For example, I'd rather have a shock body with all control arms, brakes etc fully assembled so I can just mount the complete assembly instead of taking the whole thing apart. It all comes down to level of preparation and the risks you're willing to take.

Depending on the racing discipline, you can also bring spare body panels, windshields etc, but for grand touring I think there's relatively low risk for that. Also - the racing destination matters - if I was racing at Calabogie I could easily drive back home to pick some parts up if I forgot them. If I was driving to Vegas for a race, you better believe that truck would be packed to the top with spares (lesson learned)
 
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TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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Having read all of that, the engineering optimal solution under your circumstances is to source x number of AHU/ALH engines for a meagre cost, leave the long block internals essentially untouched save for teardown inspections and/or a thorough rebuild - after all, they will be 10-15 years old with x hundred thousand km as they stand. You could proceed to upgrade the conrods for stronger aftermarket pieces if desired and ASV pistons (for better piston cooling), if necessary and other components with well-known, widely available parts, e.g. ARP studs, etc. Port the cylinder heads, install a Race camshaft, install a {insert properly matched but CHEEEEP WG turbocharger that you can source at a dime-a-dozen}, ensure you have sufficient fueling for your power goals (11mm ALH automatic/AHH injection pump, larger injector nozzles, near stock injection duration). Drop the engine into the car and call the job FINISHED. 200 reliable racing HP.

Building a Frankenstein motor with any kind of gasser bottom-end parts, even with as much OEM parts bin components as possible -- having written all that about engineering risk, avoiding unknowns and so on (rightly so) -- MAKES NO SENSE. ZERO.

Now, I happen to have a B5 Audi A4 TDI (AFN - the 110 HP version of the 1Z/AHU) quattro with an 01A tranny. You're welcome to look at it, take whatever measurements you need, cross reference any part numbers, etc. A hopped-up version of this exact combination is what you're essentially building and taking to Targa NFLD.

What I'm proposing above could not possibly be more low-risk and low-buck compared to any of the other solutions yet proposed.
 
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nitec

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1.9TDi PD
Agreed 100%...The ALH would be the ultimate choice and it just so happens that I found an AHU before I got my hands on one. That's not to say that if an ALH came by for 500$ I wouldn't jump on it like a fly on sh*t...

Also - this is a design project. I have no interest in the act of racing for the sake of racing. So much so that I`m giving the car to somebody else to drive for me. I am interested in the engineering aspect of it in much the same way a few other people on here are.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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That being said, as an engineer myself, having worked and am working in the engine design field, I can totally appreciate what you're saying about the interest in the engineering aspect. I guess the boundary conditions for your project were either not fully and clearly defined or articulated here before you got a bunch of responses.

That also being said, I reiterate that a Frankenstein TDI engine using any gasser bottom-end components and non-standard bore/stroke/rod lengths - and I'm trying to be as constructive as possible when I say this - still makes no sense. Expend your efforts, talents and $$$ elsewhere.
 

nitec

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1.9TDi PD
Interesting...very interesting...

ALH:


AHU:



ATW (1.8T off a B5)


This is counterintuitive...I would have expected the ATW and ALH to be nearly identical, yet it's ATW and AHU ones that match...what's the weird looking coolant return at the top of the ALH? it's present on the BHW gasket as well...

I have all 3 gaskets and will overlay the AHU one on the ATW engine tonight...the three missing holes at the bottom of the AHU are oil return lines missing on these engines (as far as I know)...they can be blocked off without any issues...

Narrowing this down to:

AHU head, ATW block, ALH crank (95.5mm and chain drive for the oil pump), 144mm rods and BHW pistons...no boring needed as the engine is 81mm stock...This configuration would use ALL OEM parts...the engine would be 1968cc...

83mm pistons and stock rods can bring this to a max of about 2067cc (~2.1L) maintaining the stock 1.15 rod ratio...Using the AEG block would be good for that (only 0.4mm boring)
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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At minimum, you're probably going to have to line bore the block to take 54mm diameter main bearing journals that come with the TDI crankshaft (and 47.8mm end-bearing); that's if the throws of the 95.5mm crankshaft even clear the block without clearancing. And where are you going to mount the injection pump, which is on a dedicated flange cast on the TDI block? How are you going to drive the vacuum pump - which on the AHU is driven off the intermediate shaft; don't know if you have that on the ATW. And who knows what else is different...
 
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cmrn

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Mar 30, 2010
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Arizona
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2010 Golf TDI
I guess he's the guy to find out.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
 

nitec

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I don't know :)

Off the top of my head:

1. TDi cranks have been used by 1.8T guys for stroker builds for a few years now so clearly there's a way to make it work
2. You can buy aux vac pumps so not a show stopper



3. I have no idea how the inj. pump is or needs to be mounted but I`m curious to find out :)

It's a very simple investigation...what's the big deal? Is a gas block considered herecy on this forum or something? ;)

EDIT:

Look at the AEG gasket...



The 3 oil return lines at the bottom are 'gasketed' out if that's a word...this means that block has them but the AEG head (just like the AHU - ref above) doesn't
 
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TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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No real heresy, other than it hasn't been done before; most people wanting to build bullet-proof gas engines upgrade to a TDI block, not go the other way around. Must be something to it...

Just seems to me, given all you had said - emphases mine:
Here's something interesting I came up with at work recently - the difference between "lessons learned" and "lessons identified". A lesson is not learned until you've taken steps to avoid the event from reoccuring.

So here's a lesson identified and then learned when it comes to racing: "Never build or race a custom one-off piece of equipment unless you have the pockets to support it". I can give you endless examples from racing that all point to the same conclusion. The difference between professional racing teams and most of us is we can't afford to spend 100k and have a spare sequential transmission just sitting there for the swap.

With this in mind - let's look at this engine. I do not disagree with any of the points above. If I had an unlimited budget, ... I don't, and even if I did I'd never throw away 40k on a week of racing again (lesson learned).
Just seems like you're coming up with solution looking for a problem.
 

nitec

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I guess it depends on my definition of custom...Bolting together stock components is something I've done one too many times now to consider custom...All of these components are readily available and reasonably priced...

Approx. cost of this engine:

1. AHU everything 200$
2. 1.8T bottom end (100-200$)
3. Pistons ~ 500$
4. Forged rods - 400$
5. Holset turbo - 3-400$ (rebuilt)

That's a pretty strong bottom end for the same price an ALH would cost me before any mods and nothing is all that unique or hard to source
 

DangerBoy

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Jan 16, 2010
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2010 BMW X5 35d, 1997 A6 Wagon AEL 2.5L TDI quattro 01E Six Speed Manual (Salvaged 2018)
Hmm, I think ALH bottom ends are actually pretty easy to find. Find one from a snapped timing belt car and you'll get it plenty cheap.

Regardless, I have an ALH bottom end sitting here that could probably use a new home. I'm building up an AEL 5 cylinder TDI car and I don't need the ALH anymore. Let me know if you are interested.

Dave
 

mogly

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May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
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MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
No real heresy, other than it hasn't been done before; most people wanting to build bullet-proof gas engines upgrade to a TDI block, not go the other way around. Must be something to it...

Just seems to me, given all you had said - emphases mine:
Just seems like you're coming up with solution looking for a problem.

I'm with David on this. I don't get why your hell bent on reinventing the wheel when it seems your only hurdle is motor mounts? I'm not trying to be naysayer just a realist who's built/restored enough. ALHs are available enough in the sub $500 bracket, you just have to look and be ready to jump.
 

nitec

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hahaha...well I`m doing it to satisfy my curiosity :)

and since we're on the topic - here's some food for thought....

ALH on ATW:


AHU on ATW:


seems like a good match but it looks like you guys don't care about that so I`ll just keep putting numbers here for my own sake

AHU on ATW:
Bore: 81mm
Stroke: 95.5mm
Rod: 144mm
Pistons: BHW
Displacement: 1968cc

AHU on AEG:
Bore: 83mm (with 0.4mm bore)
Stroke: 95.5mm
Rod: 144mm
Pistons: custom
Displacement: 2067cc
 

deep_sea

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'06 Jetta TDI 5spd, 1997 F350 Power Stroke, '13 Jetta TDI 6mt
I see where Nitec is going with this and I too might do it if I had the parts laying around. But yes it does seem like a lot of work to avoid custom (read shop built out of scrap) motor mounts. I am seriously looking at converting my b5.5 to tdi simply because it is only about $1,500 more to convert my 1.8t 5 spd to TDI and 6 spd than fix all the little niggling things wrong with my 1.8T. Granted I am artificially inflating 1.8T repairs while marginalizing the costs of conversion, but that is purely for selfish reasons! :)
 

nitec

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At minimum, you're probably going to have to line bore the block to take 54mm diameter main bearing journals that come with the TDI crankshaft (and 47.8mm end-bearing); that's if the throws of the 95.5mm crankshaft even clear the block without clearancing. And where are you going to mount the injection pump, which is on a dedicated flange cast on the TDI block? How are you going to drive the vacuum pump - which on the AHU is driven off the intermediate shaft; don't know if you have that on the ATW. And who knows what else is different...
Did some reading in the Bentley today:

Crankshaft Journal Diameters (gas engines)
Basic Dimension (main): 54.00mm (2.1260in.)
Basic Dimension (connecting rod): 47.80mm (1.8819in.)

Crankshaft Journal Diameters (diesel engines)
Basic Dimension (main): 54.00mm (2.1260in.)
Basic Dimension (connecting rod): 47.80mm (1.8819in.)

I can scan the tables with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd undersize dimensions...they're all the same...
 
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greengeeker

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Feb 8, 2006
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Cambridge, MN
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2002 Jetta GLS
While I think it is a little goofy to go through all this just because of mounting concerns I do love when others build frankenstein vw motors.:)

I'm not certain which specific years they came on but vw did equip some 1.8T jettas with electric vacuum pumps...
 

nitec

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while we're on the topic and since you guys already think I`m crazy, why not use IDI components? Theoretically - higher RPM no? Like for example a 1.9TD:

AAZ:
Bore: 79.5mm
Stroke: 95.5mm
Displacement: 1896cc



Or a 1.6TD (lol)

ME (with hydraulic lifters):
Bore: 76.5mm
Stroke: 86.4mm
Displacement: 1588cc



Using a mechanical pump setup eliminates all unnecessary electronics in a race car...

I was thinking about the previous questions...technically I don't need the vac pump because it only drives the brake booster right? I`m ditching the ABS on the B5 and likely losing the booster as well. It looks like the crank will mount ok...The injection pump mounts to the accessory bracket right? So if the bracket mounts to the block or perhaps an ALH bracket can be used?

K here's some info I need...What pistons (other than BHW) come in a 81mm or 83mm bore (if any?!) TDi or IDI...? It's just for the record...I don't intend on building the 2067cc engine yet :) I think the turbo will be able to compensate for the extra 100cc..

EDIT: to sort of answer my own question:

3.0 V6 24v TDi - 83mm/91.4mm
4.2 V8 40v TDi - 83mm/95.5mm
6.0 60v V12 TDi - 83mm/91.4mm
 
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