European Cluster - Lamp failure light

tongsli

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Baltimore, MD
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2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Ok cluster/wiring gurus the information in bold below is shown on the Passat cluster wiring diagrams. We all know the coding for the Bora(sport cluster) and the Passat cluster are very similar.

We also know that there are some cluster software coding(in the cluster's chip) that determines what you can display on the MFA portion.

But, I'm thinking this feature Lamp Failure is just an LED on the cluster's circuit board.

Dan at Hillside Imports has a European Passat cluster in his W-8 and if any light bulb goes out in his car, this light shows up warning him. I know alot of you are thinking
but what the heck!

If we've got 'em, smoke 'em, right?

We just need to figure out what wire is connected to Pin 21 of the cluster and if we've got the same wire. Given that Dan's US cluster didn't do anything, but the European cluster did, indicates that the input to Pin(21) is carrying the data/signal necessary to trigger that warning lamp.

It's just the matter of having a cluster that knows what to do with that signal/input.

Any ideas?

2k2 model, Golf/Jetta (Bora) - euro:
32-pin, green:
1 - vacant
2 - reading coil for immo 1
3 - warning lamp for side lights
4 - data bus (CAN), screening for input signals
5 - W-wire
6 - washer fluid shortage
7 - brake pad wear
8 - vacantDatabus high input signal/convenience electronics/central locking
9 - vacantDatabus low input signal/convenience electronics/central locking
10 - vacant
11 - signal for vehicle stationary
12 - aircon system cut-off
13 - warning lamp for hand brake
14 - warning lamp for ASR/ESP
15 - vacant
16 - vacant
17 - reading coil for immo 2
18 - oil temp & level warning signals
19 - data bus (CAN), high input signal
20 - data bus (CAN), low input signal
21 - vacant Lamp Failure shown on the Passat wiring
22 - bonnet switch input signal
23 - MFI call up button, top
24 - MFI call up button, bottom
25 - MFI memory switch - reset
26 - ambient temp input signal
27 - data bus (CAN), high output signal
28 - data bus (CAN), low output signal
29 - vacant
30 - vacant clock for the NAVI to cluster connection
31 - vacant data for the NAVI to cluster connection
32 - vacant enable for the NAVI to cluster connection
 

tongsli

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Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Navi guys,

Has anyone tried connect the K-wire to the G-unit so it can be coded via vag-com?

L
 

keith-i

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Location
Jersey, UK Channel Islands
Not sure if this will help but....

I recently fitted a two bar kit to my euro audi and had to wire in to the lamp failure circuit. This involved taking a new wire to a relay. Therefore, I presume you need the relay as well as the euro cluster. Also, on my cluster a blown bulb shows up as a dot-matrix bulb symbol on the display, not an LED.

HTH
 

tongsli

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Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Thanks!

Note to Ele28, the Passat cluster can display information from the Park Distance Control on the MFA. When you put the car in reverse, the PDC control module has Canbus high and low output wires that go to Pin 8 & 9 of the cluster.

Now, all we need is the coding for the cluster and those of us with PDC should be able to display this information also?

What do you think?

L
 

bigmacf1

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Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
I don't want to hijack this thread, but as we started to discuss adding coding to enable PDC display on our MFA, I wondered if it is possible to add coding for the tire pressure reading/warning from Touareg onto our MkIV Euro cluster. I wouldn't mind to buy a sensor and a receiver to try, but need to know how to add code (if it's just adaptation code, that would be easy with VAG-COM, but ele28 told me that it's not via VAG-COM to enable the already present coding for "mileage to empty" coding).

If the Passat PDC display can be added, I would like to try the Phaeton PDC system instead if possible.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Herbert
 

ele28

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Dec 23, 2000
Location
chicago
TDI
01 Golf Silver
This function probably is somewhere in the software of the cluster, I would say it’s possible to add this to G/J FIS but not via VAG-COM. As for LAMP FAILURE, I have this in my MFA but its only Icon without diode, so it’s useless at least in G/J clusters.
 

bigmacf1

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Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
What about on full-pixel MFA cluster? Where is the LAMP failure icon located?
The icon is in the MFA area or the icon on the speedometor/tachometer area (like the battery, EPC, ASR icons)?

Don't worry about automatic R32
, there is no such thing in the world. It's just happened to be my new full-pixel MFA R32 cluster test installed on my 5-speed Tiptronic. It works!
 

bigmacf1

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Joined
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Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
Chris (ele28) emailed me these pics showing the location of the lamp failure icon (next to the washer level warning icon):



So I guess I would have no problem display this icon on my full-pixel MFA cluster as I have no such icon/LED. All those icons will be displayed on the top part of the MFA display like this:

 

bigmacf1

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2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
BTW, one side question....what's the icon above the airbag icon on the tachometer (it's like left and right arrow with the "1" between)?
 

Tyler Gee

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May 27, 2001
Location
SF Bay Area
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98 NB, 00 Jetta
The lamp failure relay that seems to be the item in question may actually be an electronic module that plugs in to the vehicle wire harness at the relay box. Every lamp failure module I have seen including Honda and Mercedes use the current drawn in the lamp circuit to determine if the lamp is working. Honda has the current monitoring module located near the rear light fixture since their system only looks for burned out brake lights. Mercedes has the mother of all circuits. Depending on the model of car, the system monitors all exterior lights for failure and their useage.
 

DC-TDIWagon

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DC (really Fairfax county, but it is easier to say
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2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, Reflex Silver
I've heard the Mercedes one can mess with your lights to try to overcome a loss of one. Say your brake light goes out, it will start using your running light on the side that the brake light went out on just so you have some kind of light there. Or if you lose a directional, it will flash some other light on that side. That's probably why Mercedes has such a lsrge controller.
 

tongsli

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Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
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2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Thanks for the input guys. We need to identify said control module for the passat and see if 1.we already have it and it's just a wire to the cluster or 2. if we can add it and what's involved.
 

Kennedy

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Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
That's the "euro" icon that signiifes your trailer signal aren't working. Europe has much stricter towing requirements that state you ust have an audible/visible signal that your trailer's turn signals are working.

When I installed my euro tow hitch, I purchased the euro "electrics" kit. It came with a "buzzer" that buzzed when the trailer circuit was connected and the turn signal was applied. "buzz", "buzz", "buzz"... in sync with the signal... No buzz meant my trailer wasn't showing turn signals.

I'm gonna exlore this more...
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?C...rev=#Post517654

BTW, one side question....what's the icon above the airbag icon on the tachometer (it's like left and right arrow with the "1" between)?
 

03GolfTDI

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Atlanta, GA
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'12 JSW DSG and '11 JSW DSG
Does anyone know what light that is right below to the left of the brake/park interlock indicator?

Its the same icon as on the interior light adjusting wheel.
 

bigmacf1

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Mar 25, 2002
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
Since Keith's Audi A3 (A4 platform) has this feature, hopefully we can find the wiring diagram to see if retrofitting will be possible to our G4/J4. Thanks Keith.
 

Kennedy

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Jul 22, 2002
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
Since Keith's Audi A3 (A4 platform) has this feature, hopefully we can find the wiring diagram to see if retrofitting will be possible to our G4/J4. Thanks Keith.
Well...
You can run all the wiring you want, it's still not gonna put the diode in the cluster. I don't think this is gonna work.
 

bigmacf1

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Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
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2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
But I guess my new FIS cluster does not rely on diode for such warning light, right? (correct me if I am wrong)


This is where the warning icon will be displayed individually (instead of diodes)??
 

MOGolf

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2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6, 2019 Jaguar I-PACE
You won't be able to hook up the lamp out light. It appears that the signal for this comes from a 'multifunction unit' that holds all the fuses for lighting and monitors/controls the lighting circuits. Modifying the car to contain one of these would be a challenging project. Here's the unit pictured from a Sharan.
 

MOGolf

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underneath something
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I've also found a wiring diagram for a Passat showing a connection from the headlight automatic range control module, if so equipped. Pin 11 of its 20 pin connector.
 

bigmacf1

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Mar 25, 2002
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
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2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
Just got the NA Audi TT wiring diagram on Driver's Information System, there is a "Lamp Control Module, J123" sitting in between fuses (+ brake light switch) and lights (low beams, tail lights, brake lights, highmount brake light). In turns, J123 also connects to T32b on the gray connector on instrument cluster on Audi TT.
See if anyone knows the pinout of the 3 connectors on Audi TT cluster, that will greatly help.

J123 is located on the relay panel location #2 and #3 on any Audi TT here in NA.

By looking at the wiring diagram, this should be fairly simple as just put the J123 relay in between the fuse and light, then we should get the warning light on our cluster as long as our cluster have the warning light.
 

bigmacf1

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Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
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2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
Just checked with my parts guys at dealership, the part# for Lamp Control Module, Relay 393 (provided by keith-i, and verified at my dealership) is 4B0-919-471-A. The cost of this relay itself is around USD$90 (impex price is USD$81.82)

If anyone know imformation on the pinout of Audi TT cluster connectors (all connectors preferable but the most important one is T32b - connector 32pin, grey, on instrument cluster) similar to this one for our Bora euro cluster?

For example:
2k2 model, Golf/Jetta (Bora) - euro:
32-pin, green:
1 - vacant
2 - reading coil for immo 1
3 - warning lamp for side lights
4 - data bus (CAN), screening for input signals
5 - W-wire
6 - washer fluid shortage
7 - brake pad wear
8 - vacant
9 - vacant
10 - vacant
11 - signal for vehicle stationary
12 - aircon system cut-off
13 - warning lamp for hand brake
14 - warning lamp for ASR/ESP
15 - vacant
16 - vacant
17 - reading coil for immo 2
18 - oil temp & level warning signals
19 - data bus (CAN), high input signal
20 - data bus (CAN), low input signal
21 - vacant
22 - bonnet switch input signal
23 - MFI call up button, top
24 - MFI call up button, bottom
25 - MFI memory switch - reset
26 - ambient temp input signal
27 - data bus (CAN), high output signal
28 - data bus (CAN), low output signal
29 - vacant
30 - vacant
31 - vacant
32 - vacant

I only need to know what's the equivalent pin#on Audi TT cluster T32b/14 and T32b/16 to our Bora euro cluster pin#. Then I am probably set.

I will try to scan the wiring diagram for reference later tonight.
 

bigmacf1

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Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
Here is the wiring diagram I got from Audi dealership:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/8546TT_No_31.pdf

Can anyone find out which pin# from the Audi TT T32b/14 & T32b/16 is equivalent to our MkIV euro cluster pin# (should be on some of the vacant pins, T32a/8, T32a/9, or T32a/21??) Thanks.
Once I can get these 2 wires figured out, I should be able to start this project.

Lito, what do you think?
 

bigmacf1

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Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta 1.8T Tiptronic sedan galactic blue
Those are just _ in the filename.
The URL should be like this:
pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/8546TT_No_31.pdf
(add http:// before pics.tdiclub.com/....)

Anyone successfully download my pdf file?

I tried and I am successfully launch the pdf even I am not logon. I also tried to download the file, no problem.


Update: my friend, westcoastjay on vwnavi.com tried the pdf link, he told me no problem for him. He downloaded the pdf and successfully loaded it in the acrobat reader.
 
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