Ethanol in Diesel?

[black_and_chrome]

Hey guys,

I did some searching on the site but was not able to locate anything on this topic... I went to a local station in Montreal, Sonic, that clamed they had Biodiesel... When I asked the attendant if it was B5 or B20 he had a confused look on his face, as if I was talking a different language. When I asked what his so called biodiesel was, he stated it had 10% ethanol in it...? Has anyone ever heard of this mix?

Thanks,

 

[Rickstah]

no, but I have heard about lots of goofy attendants on the planet . I only know, or have read, that ethanol is used as a reactant when making biodiesel from oil or animal fat? Haven't heard it is mixed with diesel, though. Going looking to make sure I don't sound like a complete idiot, though.

 

[Fahrfuwerfuelen]

Most uninformed folks associate "bio" and "Fuel" as containing a mixture of ethanol.

I doubt any reputable diesel supplier would mix ethanol with their diesel fuel. But, then again.....

 

[black_and_chrome]

There was multiple signs that seemed to be provided from the corporate level, and the attendant seem to be very aware of what his so called Biodiesel was... But you never know... Sonic is medium size distributer here in Canada, but I have never fueled there before. I tried to locate their web site, but to no avail...

 

[wjdell]

gas was once a unwanted by product - they wanted oil
then gas became big with ICE. when diesel as a fuel used by masses is at 18% or more day 28%, there will be allot gas, and one of the least expensive products of a barrel of crude.

 

[Mulad]

It's just a dumb attendant. Ethanol or methanol can be used the production of biodiesel, and there are probably trace amounts left, but not 10%.

There have been experiments in the past where ethanol has been run in diesel engines -- mostly "E95" ethanol which is 95% ethanol and 5% various other things (not gasoline). Several things aren't so great about it, but here are my top two beefs:

Energy content -- A gallon of E95 would have somewhere around 50-60% of the energy of a gallon of diesel. And you thought running a gasser on E85 gave you poor mpgs.

Volatility -- Because diesel has very low volatility (tendency to evaporate) under normal circumstances, most diesel fuel tanks have very little facility for vapor recovery or full sequestration from the outside air. There's a significant probability the evaporating ethanol could produce a dangerous situation, or would at least cause the vehicle to pollute a lot more just sitting in the parking lot soaking up heat.

Since biodiesel takes much less energy to make and has low volatility just like diesel, it's a much better option.

 

[Powder Hound]

Like Mulad said, ethanol could be used to make biodiesel. But it is less preferable to methanol because of its affinity for water. Even more so than methanol, ethanol loves water to the point that a liter of ethanol mixed with a liter of water will give you less than 2 liters of mixture. And it is nearly impossible to get a quantity of ethanol anhydrous, so using it in a bio-diesel recipe will probably net you a lot more soap than you thought you'd get (i.e. you'll decrease your yield, too.).

Either alcohol is a solvent, and the lubricity from them is nil. So, combined with the affinity for water and the lack of lubricity, no one would mix ethanol with diesel, bio or petrol sourced.

This is also why you must carefully wash and de-water your biodiesel so that no residual alcohols (methanol or glycerol) remain in the finished product.

And we need not remind everyone what a lack of lubricity will do to your injection pump and injectors, right?

 

[black_and_chrome]

I will go by the station and see if they have any documentation on the "Biodisel" and report back.

Thanks for the insight guys!

 

[ymz]

Perhaps the attendant had 10% ethanol in him... (some of the local brews can get very close to that...)

Yuri.

 

[Dimitri16V]

Perhaps the attendant had 10% ethanol in him... (some of the local brews can get very close to that...)

Yuri.

I had beer with 12%. Delicious